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Half Term


Dave225

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It is Half Term again. Was it only 5 weeks ago that the schools returned after Xmas? A neighbour of ours who is a teacher did make the comment on the bus that as teachers ‘they lurch from holiday to holiday’ Maybe just as well she did not see the looks she received as she left the bus at 2 pm on the Friday having finished at lunchtime. Don’t know about your way but up here all schools finish at lunchtime on a Friday, so what a job. A 4 ½ day week, oodles of holidays, great pay and a pension only normal workers can dream of. Retire no later than 60 and in many cases well before that, especially when the Council decides to cut staff and asks for early retirement volunteers, and then gives a number of years service free and gratis. And for all that they manage to produce a generation of kids who are barely able to write basic English and have no numerical skills whatsoever. The teachers up here are planning more strikes as they feel paying more than 30% for a full pension is just not on, and they want the full 100% as it stands, and to Hell with anyone who disagrees. A Freedom of Information claim finally revealed that up here over 33% of all Council Tax goes towards pensions, so only 66% of what I, and everyone else pays, actually goes towards services. In England it is only 20%, still pretty bad but which shows how biased we are up here towards State industries, which I regret is not the way to prosperity. Without giving too much away it means that I am paying nearly £70 every month just towards these pensions and my neighbour, who is indeed a widowed pensioner is paying approximately £50 per month similarly. Can that be fair?

 

Travelling into town today and it is like a ghost town. The streets were empty of the normal rush hour traffic and the coffee shops packed. Can they all be parents taking time off to look after kids off school I wonder. Do Companies allow their staff a week off at this time? As parents my wife and I found any time off school was something that required a lot of work to cover, and not always to the best.

 

I do recall that Half Term in my schoolday was a Monday and maybe a Friday of you were lucky. Now it is a week minimum and in another 6 weeks it all happens again for Easter, this time 2 weeks minimum time off, and then Whitsun and then the summer holidays for 6 weeks. The poor teachers must be exhausted but i take comfort that they are keeping the travel industry afloat as many of them here have disappeared through the airports. They keep telling us how much work they have to do in preparation, well didn’t we all with no time off, and no excuses allowed.

 

I have no problem with anyone collecting what they have paid for, but to bluntly steal from all the innocents, whether legal or not, has to be immoral at the very least. But I suppose they are in good company with MP's and bankers.

 

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Guest pelmetman
Dave225 - 2012-02-14 8:11 PM

 

It is Half Term again. Was it only 5 weeks ago that the schools returned after Xmas? A neighbour of ours who is a teacher did make the comment on the bus that as teachers ‘they lurch from holiday to holiday’ Maybe just as well she did not see the looks she received as she left the bus at 2 pm on the Friday having finished at lunchtime. Don’t know about your way but up here all schools finish at lunchtime on a Friday, so what a job. A 4 ½ day week, oodles of holidays, great pay and a pension only normal workers can dream of. Retire no later than 60 and in many cases well before that, especially when the Council decides to cut staff and asks for early retirement volunteers, and then gives a number of years service free and gratis. And for all that they manage to produce a generation of kids who are barely able to write basic English and have no numerical skills whatsoever. The teachers up here are planning more strikes as they feel paying more than 30% for a full pension is just not on, and they want the full 100% as it stands, and to Hell with anyone who disagrees. A Freedom of Information claim finally revealed that up here over 33% of all Council Tax goes towards pensions, so only 66% of what I, and everyone else pays, actually goes towards services. In England it is only 20%, still pretty bad but which shows how biased we are up here towards State industries, which I regret is not the way to prosperity. Without giving too much away it means that I am paying nearly £70 every month just towards these pensions and my neighbour, who is indeed a widowed pensioner is paying approximately £50 per month similarly. Can that be fair?

 

Travelling into town today and it is like a ghost town. The streets were empty of the normal rush hour traffic and the coffee shops packed. Can they all be parents taking time off to look after kids off school I wonder. Do Companies allow their staff a week off at this time? As parents my wife and I found any time off school was something that required a lot of work to cover, and not always to the best.

 

I do recall that Half Term in my schoolday was a Monday and maybe a Friday of you were lucky. Now it is a week minimum and in another 6 weeks it all happens again for Easter, this time 2 weeks minimum time off, and then Whitsun and then the summer holidays for 6 weeks. The poor teachers must be exhausted but i take comfort that they are keeping the travel industry afloat as many of them here have disappeared through the airports. They keep telling us how much work they have to do in preparation, well didn’t we all with no time off, and no excuses allowed.

 

I have no problem with anyone collecting what they have paid for, but to bluntly steal from all the innocents, whether legal or not, has to be immoral at the very least. But I suppose they are in good company with MP's and bankers.

 

You old revolutionary you :D................. (lol) (lol) (lol)

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Brother in law retired from teaching last year at the age of 62. He very often worked from 7.30am till well after 9.00pm this included some weekends as well.

 

If teaching is such a good job all holidays big saleries how come the country is not inundated with teachers?

 

My pension is well under £200 a month so much for the teaching profession.

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David Dwight - 2012-02-14 8:34 PM

 

Brother in law retired from teaching last year at the age of 62. He very often worked from 7.30am till well after 9.00pm this included some weekends as well.

 

.

Cor glad I was fick 8-).........................he should of been a pelmet maker :D

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David Dwight - 2012-02-14 8:34 PM

 

Brother in law retired from teaching last year at the age of 62. He very often worked from 7.30am till well after 9.00pm this included some weekends as well.

 

If teaching is such a good job all holidays big saleries how come the country is not inundated with teachers?

 

My pension is well under £200 a month so much for the teaching profession.

 

David

 

If your pension is £200 a month from your Teachers pension then that means £2400 a year pension income.

 

As the Teachers pension scheme is an 80th scheme then at one end of the scale assuming you worked full time for 35 years (qualifying at 25 and working to 60) then a pension of £2400 a year would equate to a final salary of c. £5,500.

 

Alternatively, if your salary was the average for a UK Teacher of £35,000 then a pension of £2400 a year equates to membership of the scheme for just five and a half years.

 

Either way - in all my years of dealing with individuals in the Teachers Pension Scheme, as well as other government schemes, never have I ever come accross anyone recieving such a small pension income unless they were significantly part-time, or had very, very few years of service.

 

A typica Teacher with 35 years service on the average salary of £35,000 will recieve a pension of 35/80ths of Final Salary under the old scheme which equates to £15,312 a year plus a Tax Free Lump sum of a tad under £46,000.

 

So sorry mate but unless you just stepped of a time warp from the 1950's, your figure of £200 a month just does not add up. :-S

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Hopesy has suggested I change careers and join them. I would if they will accept applicants of State Pension age. I know in the good old days Mr Chips stayed teaching until his deathbed, but I doubt that is allowed anymore.

 

I also have been advised via the Press that there are hundreds of young teachers unable to get jobs and are emigrating mostly. Seems daft to train 'em for another country, especially as they cannot be worse than many we currently employ. The inability to fire incompetents seems to be endemic to this profession, although I also did mention MP's.

 

I think it is the bit where my Council Tax is 'pinched' without a by your leave that really gets me. I have no objection to paying for education but to have to pay for someone to have a rich life is something that really sticks in the craw.

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Dave225 - 2012-02-15 7:32 PM

 

I think it is the bit where my Council Tax is 'pinched' without a by your leave that really gets me. I have no objection to paying for education but to have to pay for someone to have a rich life is something that really sticks in the craw.

 

The percentage of our Council Tax that is used to fund the pensions in payment for retired Local Government employees is in most cases in excess of 30%. This sum is for all Local Government employees - not just teachers.

 

This means that the majority households where the breadwinner(s) are NOT Local Government employees contribute more to other peoples pensions than they do for their own.

 

 

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CliveH - 2012-02-14 10:52 PM

 

David Dwight - 2012-02-14 8:34 PM

 

Brother in law retired from teaching last year at the age of 62. He very often worked from 7.30am till well after 9.00pm this included some weekends as well.

 

If teaching is such a good job all holidays big saleries how come the country is not inundated with teachers?

 

My pension is well under £200 a month so much for the teaching profession.

 

David

 

If your pension is £200 a month from your Teachers pension then that means £2400 a year pension income.

 

As the Teachers pension scheme is an 80th scheme then at one end of the scale assuming you worked full time for 35 years (qualifying at 25 and working to 60) then a pension of £2400 a year would equate to a final salary of c. £5,500.

 

Alternatively, if your salary was the average for a UK Teacher of £35,000 then a pension of £2400 a year equates to membership of the scheme for just five and a half years.

 

Either way - in all my years of dealing with individuals in the Teachers Pension Scheme, as well as other government schemes, never have I ever come accross anyone recieving such a small pension income unless they were significantly part-time, or had very, very few years of service.

 

A typica Teacher with 35 years service on the average salary of £35,000 will recieve a pension of 35/80ths of Final Salary under the old scheme which equates to £15,312 a year plus a Tax Free Lump sum of a tad under £46,000.

 

So sorry mate but unless you just stepped of a time warp from the 1950's, your figure of £200 a month just does not add up. :-S

\Quite agree Clive. My wife taught for 24 Yrs and her pension is about £950 PM.
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Dave225 - 2012-02-15 7:32 PM

 

Hopesy has suggested I change careers and join them. I would if they will accept applicants of State Pension age. I know in the good old days Mr Chips stayed teaching until his deathbed, but I doubt that is allowed anymore.

 

I also have been advised via the Press that there are hundreds of young teachers unable to get jobs and are emigrating mostly. Seems daft to train 'em for another country, especially as they cannot be worse than many we currently employ. The inability to fire incompetents seems to be endemic to this profession, although I also did mention MP's.

 

I think it is the bit where my Council Tax is 'pinched' without a by your leave that really gets me. I have no objection to paying for education but to have to pay for someone to have a rich life is something that really sticks in the craw.

You don't know what your talking about. Teachers pensions are fully funded. A percentage is paid by them and the rest is funded from their employer. The same as any other pension. Now if you want to have a go, then pick on the police and firemen, who can retire at 55 and then get another lucrative job.
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Rubbish!

 

I do not know of any business that taxes its customers. All employers pay a'matching contribution' up to a certain percentage which is taken out of profits made by the business. No profits, no contributions. And that is if you work for one of the very few Companies still offering pension schemes. Most offer a a stock market based scheme where the returns are based on investment performance, not your salary, so as many have found, your pension has vanished over the years. No paying out based on the last year's salary or the highest of the last 5, if the last is not the biggest, and this could last for another 30 years., all index linked. There is no increasing as and when they deem fit. As for secondary employment just how many teachers do you know offering tuition to get the kids up to the level that the schools have failed to reach? And usually at £20+ per hour. Maybe that is why HMRC is looking into them in particular for tax avoidance. That does not count the ones who are retired and then get supply work. They are not the only group to benefit from such generous deals, but as education is by far and away the largest part of any Local Authority budget they take a disproportionate amount of the funds.

 

Sorry, either your kids grew up in the days when education was a quality product and not nowadays when 4 out of 5 are 5 or more years behind in education. I am glad my kids are all well grown up but I still object to my money being squandered for little return. If we had a highly educated workforce leaving schools then I could see the point but we have amongst the worst in the western world and nobody will employ them. I will happily pay taxes for kids to be well educated through salaries, but pensions should not be included, or can I ask for a contribution from my Local Authority to pay mine?

 

I do accept that John Lewis still offers a final salary pension scheme but if you saw the wages 90% of the workforce actually receive all their working lives you will understand that the pension is not probably even as much as the much vaunted dinner lady receives.

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peter - 2012-02-16 4:58 PM

 

 

You don't know what your talking about. Teachers pensions are fully funded. A percentage is paid by them and the rest is funded from their employer. The same as any other pension. Now if you want to have a go, then pick on the police and firemen, who can retire at 55 and then get another lucrative job.

 

Actually Peter the Teachers pension scheme is not "fully funded" it is an "unfunded scheme"

 

See www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN00405.pdf

 

" 1.1 Overview of provisions

 

The Teachers’ Pension Scheme (TPS) is an unfunded, contributory, final salary public service occupational pension scheme. The Superannuation Act 1972 provides the legislative framework for this, with the detailed rules in regulations, in particular, the Teachers’ Pensions Regulations 2010 (SI 2010/990).

 

An "unfunded scheme means that there is no fund. Pensions in payment TODAY are paid for out of the contributions collected TODAY from the employee and the employer with the deficit being made up from taxation. This is where the truth of how much of our council tax gets paid on our local amenities and how much goes to pay pensions in payment to past Local Government and Teachers employees.

 

FoI requests have uncoverred that the figure is circa 30% on average with a range (as I recall) from mid 20's to the low 30's.

 

As the employer of Teachers are the various Local Governments and these are funded centrally and by Council Tax, I am afraid you are wrong to suggest that the scheme "is like any other pension" - it is of the same type as all Public Sector Pensions, that is all - and this means that the taxpayer (both to HMRC and LOCAL TAXES - such as Council Tax) pay far more into other peoples pension schemes than they pay into their own.

 

Last thing I want to do is to get personal Peter but if we look at the figure you provided for your wife - of £940 a month (assuming this is the gross payment not the net) this equates to a pension of £11,280 a year and was accrues over 24 years. So as the scheme is an 80th scheme this equates to a final salary of circa £37,000 pa. (£37K / 80 x 24 = £11K pension)

 

Now even if your good lady was on that income for the whole 24 years the contributions employees make is 6% so that would be £2,220 a year gross (I am ignoring the tax relief on the contribution) for 24 years so that in total the contribution are £53,280 It would of course be significantly less than this because I doubt your good lady started on the same salary she retired on.

 

However to calculate the REAL value of a pension the HMRC guidelines state that for Lifetime allowance calculations you multiply the pension by 20 and add the tax free cash. So in your wifes case if we assume the normal Tax Free cash lump sum was taken of 3 times the pension so if we say £33,000? then the CET (Cash Equivelent Value) of your good ladies pension is £258,000

 

Pension of £11280 a yr x 20 = £225,600 plus the Tax free cash of c.£33,000 = £258,600.

 

So contributions over the working period of circa £50,000 secure pension benefits equivelent to a fund of £258,000.

 

And this calculation is true for all Public Sector employees with the exception of some Local Government employees where for a while now there has been some "Funded" pension provision.

 

As there is no fund and the pensions are paid for out of taxation, Public Sector pensions are a huge burden on the tax payer.

 

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Hi David

 

Average salary in 1980 was £7585 and in the 1970's there was an independent review of salary levels, for Teachers and teachers' salaries were set at 37 points above average earnings.

 

So I assume a salary of £2000 was part-time?

 

And unless you are now over 90 years old, if you left Teaching in the late 1970, you must have left with service of less than the "normal" 35 to 40 full-time years?

 

The Teachers pension scheme is one of the very best in the UK. If your pension in payment is as low as you say it is, then the only possibile reasons are as I have said previously - being significantly part-time, or having very few years service. Either that or there has been a significant mistake!

 

A full time Teachers salary in 1980 was significantly above the average of the time but even if we ignore that and just take a typical salary of the late 1970's/1980 od c.£7500, 35 years service up until that point would provide a pension of £3281 a year for someone retiring in 1980 - so that even back then, this would be in the region of £273 a month.

 

And as the scheme is fully index linked to protect payments agains inflation*, then that £273 a month would be considerably more now.

(* RPI for the most part - CPI from last year)

Can I ask if you were part time, how many years service you had and what your salary was? - because if what you say is true, - you are owed a significant sum of money. 8-)

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Clive

I was full time, and did 10years I got out as I was fed up with the way the system was going. I was then better paid in the retail industry, for the next 16 years before going into the care service where I remained until I retired.

 

I am not complaining about what I get, but it annoys me when people think that all teachers are over paid under worked and lifes one big holiday.

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peter - 2012-02-16 4:58 PM

 

Dave225 - 2012-02-15 7:32 PM

 

Hopesy has suggested I change careers and join them. I would if they will accept applicants of State Pension age. I know in the good old days Mr Chips stayed teaching until his deathbed, but I doubt that is allowed anymore.

 

I also have been advised via the Press that there are hundreds of young teachers unable to get jobs and are emigrating mostly. Seems daft to train 'em for another country, especially as they cannot be worse than many we currently employ. The inability to fire incompetents seems to be endemic to this profession, although I also did mention MP's.

 

I think it is the bit where my Council Tax is 'pinched' without a by your leave that really gets me. I have no objection to paying for education but to have to pay for someone to have a rich life is something that really sticks in the craw.

You don't know what your talking about. Teachers pensions are fully funded. A percentage is paid by them and the rest is funded from their employer. The same as any other pension. Now if you want to have a go, then pick on the police and firemen, who can retire at 55 and then get another lucrative job.

 

No Pete 50 and another luctrative job , but then so can your wife if she so chooses (lol)

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David Dwight - 2012-02-19 2:29 PM

 

Clive

I was full time, and did 10years I got out as I was fed up with the way the system was going. I was then better paid in the retail industry, for the next 16 years before going into the care service where I remained until I retired.

 

I am not complaining about what I get, but it annoys me when people think that all teachers are over paid under worked and lifes one big holiday.

 

I would not say that - I know some Teachers who work long hours and are very dedicated - however I also know some who are anything but.

 

The only point I am making is that the Teachers pension scheme is a very very good one and is funded by todays taxpayers. So when Teachers march and demand fair pensions for themselves, I just wish they had a tad more knowledge of the fact that we all contribute MORE to their pensions than they ever have themselves and the level of contributions we make to THEIR pension is often more than the average person can afford to pay into a pension for their own retirement. :-S

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