calypso Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi we are looking to change our compass Calypso...and finding everything we look at 12-14 inches wider. I'm sure many of you will have upsized,and just wondered if It took a lot of getting used to, There was a thread on here not long ago about some covers to protect the wing mirrors ...this has done nothing to allay our worries...is it a common occurance to have your wing mirrors damaged??? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddies104 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi Calypso It's like driving any new vehicle, you soon get used to the new width, wether it's a bike, car or Motorhome it comes natural.. And no it is not common to hit wing mirrors, only if driving to fast to slow down and pull over whist passing in a narrow road.... So go for it!! And good luck Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 My blood presure much better since we doiwnsized, and I can actually enjoy the driving! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The short answer is yes and no! On main roads - no. When parking in a confined area - yes! On narrow twisty roads - very much yes! On site - yes - so much more space - wonderful! As you say modern vans are getting wider and wider and those on the newer X250 chassis seem to be wider than ever. It is more the body overhang and tilt on camber that makes by road touring so interesting - especially when overhanging tree branches step out in front of you unexpectedly! Most people do get used to it but it does depend on your driving ability, observational skills and attitudes and some folk do return to a narrower way of life if they find that they just don't enjoy driving. Drive a couple and try and drive one through a busy town and park it somewhere where space is short and narrow just to get an idea. Be aware that a wider van often means there is no way to get in and out of the hab door when parked so one often has to be inventive when parking - or go somewhere else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 As both an ex HGV & PSV driver despite what others may say to the contrary of course it makes a difference, given any width of any single carriageway road the wider you are the closer you are to oncoming traffic, driving around the rural roads here in Gwynedd with uneven stone walls jutting out, just following anything that's much wider than the average car tells you all you need to know, they are invariably sitting or just over the center white line. If you are prepared to adopt a different "defensive" style of driving you will cope, it depends whether you want to cope, or enjoy your travels a little more. I've been on both sides of the scenario, and I know which one I choose. You can of course get mirror protectors for around £120, but take it from me, if your that close to an oncoming vehicle to have them whacked which can be a hell of a bang and scare you s***less, you may think that's a little to close for comfort. I've often thought that if we were road building from scratch, would anyone think its a good idea to have two lumps of metal approaching one another at a closing speed of 120 mph, with just a foot or two between them ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Of course, but the degree depends on several things, Suggest you first ask yourself where you like to go we started with an A-class, brilliant on site, loads of room, so much so we could carry spare wing mirrors around with us. It's not as simple as driving style, it's also about other vehicles' driving style, overhanging signs, bus stops, country lanes walls, turning area required, We went all round Ireland, Scotland, Lake District & Y Dales, Cornwall Devon Somerset, So much more fun in subsequent (down-sized) vehicles, much easier and less stressful to drive and park and manoeuvre, Of course if you just want to blast up and down motorways, or drive a vehicle you neither own nor insure then no worries >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 ...Well,trying hard to supress any Frankie Howardesque inuendo :$ ,I suppose it depends on where you travel/how you use you van... Our current van is wider and longer than our last two vans...and the only time the addition bulk is an issue is if we need to pick up some shopping..and even then it's just really a case of parking the van somewhere out of the way... If you tend to stick to main roads and use established campsites,then I wouldn't think you'd have much of a problem(..as has been said,you tend to adjust and get used to it). If on the other hand,you like to go off exploring down country lanes(..or tend to want to shoehorn your van into prime carpark spaces!),then yes,12"-14"(really, that much?)would make a difference.... There is another thread running - "Advice on up-sizing" ..on which they discuss the "Van" type models.These are wider than PVC but not as wide as a "full width" coachbuilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Having upsized from a x250 to an A class I can say the A class is easier. As the sides are parralel and the mirrors don't stick out a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calypso Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Thank you everybody. what we've been looking at is Autocruise star fire Auto sleepers Broadway both about 8' 10 with mirrors .compared to the calypso at 7'6 with mirrors it takes some thinking about, but hearing other peoples views does help.thank you once again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 calypso - 2012-02-16 2:59 PM Hi we are looking to change our compass Calypso...and finding everything we look at 12-14 inches wider. I'm sure many of you will have upsized,and just wondered if It took a lot of getting used to, There was a thread on here not long ago about some covers to protect the wing mirrors ...this has done nothing to allay our worries...is it a common occurance to have your wing mirrors damaged??? Thank you The name has been around for some years, so it would help if you said what year, base vehicle, and width your Calypso is. Many of the newer vans are 2.3/2.35 metres wide. 14" equates to 350mm, implying your present van is only 2.0 metres wide across the body. As said above, the extra width will make a difference, but whether that bothers you will depend on where you go. I would only add that those who imply width only becomes an issue on country lanes may not have driven on any number of "A" roads in Kent: for example the A262, or more widely on many twisting B roads in the UK, and their equivalents abroad. Road width alone is not so much the problem, it is twisting roads, especially if tree lined, between high banks, or with a cliff one side and a drop the other, that also carry HGV traffic, that create the most interesting "breathe-in" moments. A narrow, straightish, road, through a flat landscape, with good visibility to the sides, causes little problem because it is easy to spot and identify the oncoming traffic, and the potential passing places. So yes, width matters, but not all the time! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calypso Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi thank you Brian the Calypso is a VW 2.5 turbo diesel Y reg 2001' we have had it almost 9 years and we love it but we now would like a bigger bathroom and a bigger fridge....and at that time of life where you start to think " what's it all about ... get the money spent before someone else does "Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yes it is a very real problem as the wing mirrors on the latest Fiats are very wide indeed. On some roads there is simply no where to go to avoid the problem if the roads are narrow and say tree lined. We have the mirror guards fitted. They will give considerable protection to the mirrors but the main advantage on the white ones is that they make the mirrors much more visible to oncoming traffic. Van drivers in particular just don't expect the wing mirrors to be as wide as they are. Off side mirrors cost £250 and the near side with the arial in cost £350 and they are the ones that most often get damaged! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Then I think almost any coachbuilt van, except Hobby Van and Hymer Van, will be quite a bit wider that your present vehicle. The Dethleffs Globebus variants come in at around 2.15 metres, and the Knaus Van TI at about 2.19 metres (these are just examples, not intended as a compensative list! :-)). All will have extended mirrors. Most other coachbuilts, as above, are in the 2.3 - 2.35 metre region. Van conversions based on the current Ducato will be only a shade wider, and will not have the extended mirrors of the above. Lengths around 5.5 metres. 6.0 metres and 6.3 metres. There is a huge range of these now available from UK and continental converters, most being very similar in layout and differing only in details, but as ever, the devil is in those details! Fridges and washrooms are often compromised in van conversions, more often it is just the washroom that is compromised in the compact coachbuilts. But again, what will suit you will depend so much on how, and where, you use your van, and possibly how long your trips may last and, what time/s of the year you may make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 calypso - 2012-02-16 5:58 PM Thank you everybody. what we've been looking at is Autocruise star fire Auto sleepers Broadway both about 8' 10 with mirrors .compared to the calypso at 7'6 with mirrors it takes some thinking about, but hearing other peoples views does help.thank you once again Is this a misleading difference I wonder as the mirrors on newer vans do seem to stick out further than they used to on older vans and it might be more useful to by how much the actual coachbuilt body has expanded than the total width? That said it all has to go through the same gap and if you have to fold the mirrors in to squeeze through it is a bit scary because you become rearwardly blind just when you really don't want to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 yes is the short answer from me......it tends to inhibit anjy thought of going off 'main' roads, really just in case there is other traffic (especially farm vehicles) coming towards you! Up to a point, driving on big roads is Ok,but in the Uk even A roads are sometime quite narronw, and hedges do tend to grow, so you have to be very careful. Now france is a different matter, as you can drive all day long on D roads,and porbably never meet anyone, plus lots of them are so straight you can see whats coming a mile (kilometre) away! We would love to downsize back to the PVC size, which is idential to what our previous Raido 710F was, and also had the short stalks on the mirrors! Yes, you may have marginally less space inside, but you feel comfortable in taking teh motorhome to places you really wouldnt even try to with the new wider vans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Is there really that much difference on the road? both are built with panel van cabs, the mirrors extend out just as far.i ask the question because no one in their right mind would want to take a big white van down tiny country lanes or through'picturesque' villages without adjusting their driving technique. Wing mirrors are usually above those on cars and thus miss, near side wing mirror damage is down to poor depth perception.There are advantages to a fat van at 2.3m against 2.07m for the average Fiat. Le monde du Camping car recently did a head to head test between the Challenger Genesis at 2.3m wide and 5.99m long and the Adria Twin SPX at 2.07 wide and 6.36 long. both 2+2's at about E43,000.The Tests covered parking, manouverability, internal living space and useability.A precis might say that the increased width allowed extra room in the washroom, corridor and workspace, surprising what an extra 4" of each can do! But did compromise using the van in narrow straight roads, Supermarket Parking was easier with the wider van as it was also shorter and with a greater overhang was able to fit into a standard (French) parking space the actual width for the drivers and passenger door exits was the same in both because the van cab was still in place. Because the PVC was on a LWB (over 4 meters) the manouverability in narrow curvey streets, esp with 90o bends and on site was compromised against the SWB of the Coach-built. The coach-built was also able to offer a garage, all year round insulation, and 240kg extra load margin against the PVC.You must decide if you want the advantages of a coach built against the slightly smaller presence of a PVC.The Testers certainly felt that a good short wide one won hands down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 http://www.bentleymotorhomes.co.uk/artisan-range.html Take a look, 7 foot 3 inches wide incl mirrors for a CB. this is what they say From our motorhome experiences on narrow roads and tight spaces, we’ve created vehicles that fit a more adventurous lifestyle. We have engineered the exterior of the motorhome to provide you with a slimmer vehicle, making parking, turning and manoeuvring easier and quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Retread24800 - 2012-02-16 7:25 PMIs there really that much difference on the road? both are built with panel van cabs, the mirrors extend out just as far.I think it's probably the fact that at present the OP has a comparatively narrow VW(T4?)based coachbuilt...and therefore the current crop of X250 based vans would be a fair bit wider... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan k Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi, we uposized and then downsized so a few thoughts Size does matter, although if you drive them regularly you do get used to the bigger vehicle. But there's always a tradeoff interms of ease of driving down small roads, narrow towns and the speed with which you can make progress generally and how concerned you are about the sides of your van on narrow lanes (I'll return to that comment later). After about 9 years we upsized from a La Strada on a merc panel van to a Geist Phantom RG, increasing the width from about 1990 to 2320mms about 14ins wider ( and about 4-5ft longer ) and it did feel and look to have a great deal more bulk to it. I'd driven the La Strada all over Europe, up and down all sorts of mountain passes and down narrow lanes on Dartmoor where we have family. I was quite happy driving the Phantom too but it required alot more slowing down to get past stuff, even stopping to make sure I wasn't in the hedge whilst the lorry or the farmer's 4x4 and trailer brushed their hedge as they went past us. The increase in space was great, we now had a proper shower, no getting tangled up in shower curtains, a nice fixed bed and a garage and generally plenty of storage and space. I drove around the Scottish coast down all the single track roads and we had a great time. But like everywhere sometimes there wasn't just enough space to park. My wife drove the Phantom about twice, she regularly drove the La Strada. Getting tangled up with a double decker bus in South Devon followed by the infamous Sprintshift issues and me being ill one day caused me to be told to change the van for something smaller ie narrower. So after only 20 months with the Phantom we changed it for a Hobby Van Exclusive, about 6.7m long cf 7.4m and 2180 cf 2320. So only about 5 1/2ins narrower but its noticeable. There is less space inside particularly in the corridor and in the shower space, but we can cope and we're not narrow ourselves and we're greatly impressed with the Hobby. There's not a great deal of lounging space but there's always the bed lounge on to read and 2 comfy chairs. After 120 nights away last year, to Dubrovnik and back in the spring and around the Italian coast in the autumn together with a few trips in the UK we find the Hobby great, it seems a good compromise, for inside space and outside size, But yes size does matter but only you will be able to tell how much it matters to you depending on your sort of trips and the sorts of places you want to explore, cheers alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 We went up and up, then down, then up, then down again! *-) From a Commer Autosleeper (narrow) followed by an ambulance which we converted (still quite narrow), then we went onto 'proper' coachbuilt motorhomes of varying sizes: An Elddis Autoquest 320 (5.5m x 2.2m) - perfect size and no problems at all when driving it. Longer but slimmer to a Swift Suntor 590RS (5.97m x 2.1m) - at the time we found the length a problem. Shorter but fatter to a Rapido 709F (5.56m x 2.23m) - length was great and didn't have a problem with the width. Up a lot in length to a Rimor Sailer 645TC (7.14m x 2.22m) - we really noticed the length and towards the end of our ownership, although it was a really lovely vehicle, we just got weary of having to watch out when turning etc as the rear end would swing out quite a lot, finding parking spots was a pain too. Finally shorter but fatter (!) to a Chausson Flash 04 (5.99m x 2.3m), the length is great and allows us to park without much difficulty - it is a bit chubbier than any van we've had before and that was a bit of a concern but we have tended to find with all our motorhomes when parking that length is the major restrictor rather than width. If we had a choice of a long thin van or a short fat one, we'll take the short fat one anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It's all very well saying that the mirrors will be above car mirrors which is indeed true. Unfortunately they are exactly at the same height as white van mirrors and that's where the damage is usually done. As for saying hitting the near side one is a matter of poor perception that's rubbish as well. If you are driving along a narrow road and a tree suddenly appears on one side and say a lorry on the other one may well be aware of the problem but have no where to go to avoid it. I'm not anti coach builds, we have an AutoTrail ourselves and so far have never damaged a mirror but we have met many people who have. Your question was does the extra width make a huge difference to which the only honest answer how ever you wrap it up is simply yes. There are some roads where we live that I simply will not drive our motorhome down. Narrow with trees and walls right up to the edge on the near side and lots of HGVs on the other! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Colin Leake - 2012-02-16 11:30 PM .............. As for saying hitting the near side one is a matter of poor perception that's rubbish as well. If you are driving along a narrow road and a tree suddenly appears on one side and say a lorry on the other one may well be aware of the problem but have no where to go to avoid it. .................. Your question was does the extra width make a huge difference to which the only honest answer how ever you wrap it up is simply yes. There are some roads where we live that I simply will not drive our motorhome down. Narrow with trees and walls right up to the edge on the near side and lots of HGVs on the other! Driving a large white van, be it coach built,PVC or builders requires a degree of concentration, lets be sensible, Trees do not spring from out of the field, HGV's are not teleported in to confound you. What you are describing is someone who is not paying attention and is driving other than in accordance with the road conditions.:-( My Camping Panzer is an old van and is fitted with brakes, on all four wheels, are they now an optional extra?Getting back to the OP, I thought he was trading up from his VW based van and was likely to be searching among mainstream modern vans. To go narrower than 2.07 m (even the product from Bentley) would bring you to Vito/Expert country at only c 1.9m wide and conversions by Westphalia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Retread24800 - 2012-02-16 10:48 PM......................Driving a large white van, be it coach built,PVC or builders requires a degree of concentration, lets be sensible, Trees do not spring from out of the field, HGV's are not teleported in to confound you. What you are describing is someone who is not paying attention and is driving other than in accordance with the road conditions.:-( .................. People report their experience, driving their vehicles. Apparently, you have different experience. The comment above seems to me merely to belittle those whose experience is not as yours, but I am at a loss to know why: who benefits from that? I know what Colin means, and I agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-02-17 12:38 AM Retread24800 - 2012-02-16 10:48 PM......................Driving a large white van, be it coach built,PVC or builders requires a degree of concentration, lets be sensible, Trees do not spring from out of the field, HGV's are not teleported in to confound you. What you are describing is someone who is not paying attention and is driving other than in accordance with the road conditions.:-( .................. People report their experience, driving their vehicles. Apparently, you have different experience. The comment above seems to me merely to belittle those whose experience is not as yours, but I am at a loss to know why: who benefits from that? I know what Colin means, and I agree with him. My Experience was as the full time driver of a panel van, in Devon on all the small roads you are likely to encounter. If you dont pay attention, you will have problems, I used to hate the summer and groccles, seemed to us they all went to work by train, passed their tests in a Morris Oxford, had no concept of spacial awareness and only used the car/ motor caravan on sunny summer days. The number we had to help reverse down a country lane, or remove themselves from the corner of a cottage because of poor judgement, to be fair tuggers were a million times worse, so where am I coming from? I respect skilled driving, I cannot understand the old insurance joke of 'the tree jumped out in front of me' If that happened to me I was off the road, faced with a huge bill and without the means of earning a living , so I made d..ed sure the trees stayed where they were planted:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Good luck Calypso with resolving your quandary. We used to have a Swift Royale that was 2.13m wide and 6.5m long. We never had a problem with the width when on site or the length when travelling. We then switched to an A-clas that was shorter and wider. It takes far more care driving a wider vehicle on the road. The gap between you and oncoming vehicles becomes narrower and that can be quite unnerving when you meet a large vehicle coming the other way. However, my van and I have survived without any damage. Length seems to be less of an issue except when manoeuvring in tight areas. It might be useful having a session on defensive driving techniques to increase your confidence. I get defensive driving training at work - usually an annual watch of an excellent ROSPA video. If you are confident, and put the miles in, then you should be OK with any vehicle up to RV size except for the really narrow lanes and parking at places you want to visit. As a rule of thumb, I don't take my van down unclassified roads unless I know them or they have bus stops - if a bus can get down them, I should be able to. You will find it difficult to replace the Calypso, a magnificent van. The Bentley Cerise is new and similar although reports say the wing mirrors are not good enough for rear visibility. My summary? It's down to how well you drive and how comfortable you will feel on the road. After all, HGVs seem able to get everywhere and that must be because they are driven by professionals [90%+ anyway] who get the miles in and have to pass rigorous testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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