Breathalysers in France

[Poppy]

CC report that they have contacted the legal department of the Automobile club de France.This law, they report, is currently only a PROPOSAL.Should it become law it is, as yet, unclear whether it would only apply to Frencg citizens or visiting motorists as well.For anyone who would like to have a breathalyer anyway, they can be purchased from most French pharmacists for approx 1 euro.

[mel wood]

Well done CC (and Poppy).

 

So there's no need for anyone to panic !!!!

 

I'm editing this because I have just been on CC website and there is contradictory information!. On CC website under "Latest news" is a piece entitled "Plan ahead when driving in France" which contains totally different information and is dated 22nd Feb. I appreciate that Poppy read the information quoted in the March issue of the CC Magazine which probably arrived today but was no doubt written some weeks ago.

 

So it does look as though no one really knows when these "proposals" will become mandatory.

[Derek Uzzell]

Caravan Club advice on the yet-to-be ratified French breathalyser-related regulations can be found on the following links:

 

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/planning-your-holiday/overseas-holiday-planning/travel-essentials/compulsory-requirements/general-legal-requirements/

 

http://www.travelspot.co.uk/

 

I'll quote the "Travel Spot" advice:

 

"The French Government has recently announced a new motoring law that will apply to both resident AND visiting motorists. Whilst the law is not yet fully ratified, it outlines that from 1st July 2012 all motorists in France will need to carry a twin pack of disposable breathalysers. These will have to be ‘NF approved’ (French Testing body) and specifically calibrated to the 0.5% French alcohol limit (UK limit is 0.8%). Failing to carry the breathalysers will incur a ‘spot fine’."

 

Regarding the "Travel Spot" advice, I believe there is little likelihood that the French breathalyser law will not be ratified. It's politically attractive and relatively uncontroversial, and, having got used to having to carry a reflective waistcoat and warning-triangle in their vehicles, few French drivers will be overly concerned about also needing to carry a breathalyser kit that costs just a couple of euros. The French will be aware too that their death/injury motor-accident statistics reveal that 'drink driving' continues to be a worringly significant factor.

 

I've not read elsewhere that carrying a twin-pack of disposable breathalysers will be mandatory - in fact, I'd guess it will not. However, I have read plenty of comments advising that (for logical reasons) at least two disposable breathalysers should be carried - one for the driver to test his/her alcohol-level and the other to comply subsequently with the need-to-carry-in-vehicle regulation.

 

When the French waistcoat/triangle law was being proposed, it was initially asked (in the UK) whether the law would apply only to French nationals/French-registered vehicles. For commonsense reasons, if for nothing else, the law was applied to all drivers travelling in France. There's really no logical reason to expect the breathyser regulations to apply differently.

 

Implementation of the French waistcoat/triangle law involved two dates being set with an interval of a few months between them. This interval allowed vehicle owners/drivers to get used to the idea, for retailers to build up stocks and for the waistcoats/triangles to be obtained by vehicle owners/drivers. Although the French police could stop and check vehicles from Date One regarding carriage of a waistcoat/triangle, the police would not prosecute for non-carriage until after Date Two. A similar process is being mentioned for carriage of a breathalyser kit and, as the ' two dates' procedure apparently worked well enough for the waistcoat/triangle law, it seems probable that the same procedure will be adopted for the breathalyser law's implementation. Received wisdom (but remember that the French breathalyser law has NOT yet been fully ratified) is that Date One is planned for 1 July 2012 and Date Two for 1 November 2012.

 

(I note that EIGHT separate threads now exist on this forum regarding French speed-camera and/or breathalyser regulation changes/proposals. These threads have all been initiated within the last 3 months and the accuracy and up-to-dateness of the material they contain unsurprisingly varies. A forum SEARCH using "breathalyser" will pick them up.)

 

 

 

 

[Guest ChrisB]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-24 8:28 AM

 

 

 

(I note that EIGHT separate threads now exist on this forum regarding French speed-camera and/or breathalyser regulation changes/proposals. These threads have all been initiated within the last 3 months and the accuracy and up-to-dateness of the material they contain unsurprisingly varies. A forum SEARCH using "breathalyser" will pick them up.)

 

 

 

I've been trying to keep up to date and make sense of the various threads but has anyone asked how (or indeed if) motorists are required to make use of these breathalyser kits?

Are they intended to be used every time a driver gets into a car after a drink (home/club/restaurant)?

Quite honestly I can see a relatively sober driver carrying out a self-test, but after that 3rd glass of wine/pint of beer don't we all become incredibly good drivers with no need to test or follow traffic laws?

 

Or will there be a legal requirement to self-test at all times before driving (bearing in mind that you can easily be over the limit the morning after a night out on the town).

 

Not knocking the idea, just wondering how it will be applied.

[Derek Uzzell]

ChrisB - 2012-02-24 9:39 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-24 8:28 AM

 

 

 

(I note that EIGHT separate threads now exist on this forum regarding French speed-camera and/or breathalyser regulation changes/proposals. These threads have all been initiated within the last 3 months and the accuracy and up-to-dateness of the material they contain unsurprisingly varies. A forum SEARCH using "breathalyser" will pick them up.)

 

I've been trying to keep up to date and make sense of the various threads but has anyone asked how (or indeed if) motorists are required to make use of these breathalyser kits?

Are they intended to be used every time a driver gets into a car after a drink (home/club/restaurant)?

Quite honestly I can see a relatively sober driver carrying out a self-test, but after that 3rd glass of wine/pint of beer don't we all become incredibly good drivers with no need to test or follow traffic laws?

 

Or will there be a legal requirement to self-test at all times before driving (bearing in mind that you can easily be over the limit the morning after a night out on the town).

 

Not knocking the idea, just wondering how it will be applied.

 

The requirement (assuming it is ratified) relates solely to in-vehicle carriage of a breathalyser. It will not legislate on how that breathalyser must be used.

 

There are EU countries that have a motoring regulation that demands that drivers carry a first-aid kit, but the regulation won't stipulate how the driver should use it.

 

The French idea (daft, sensible, realistic, effective - whatever) is that drivers should have the means to accurately test themselves regarding the French drink-driving limit before actually driving a vehicle. Whether they do this or not will be up to them.

[Patricia]

Derek I believe they are working on some means of stopping a vehicle's engine starting if a certain limit of alcohol is detected. At present this will only apply to public service vehicles but rumour has it .........

 

With regards to the medical kit it is mandatory in France to stop and offer assistance if there is an accident.

 

Finally I always drive with the luminous vest around my seat - no excuse for them to carry out a search then - most French people do this too.

[Brian Kirby]

I'm obviously speculating, so apologies if this is not helpful, but as a guess, the way the law on ethylotest will work will possibly be along these lines.

 

You will be deemed to know whether you have been drinking, and therefore have no excuse for not having testing yourself before driving.

 

So, you have two options: to test yourself, or not.

 

Then, if stopped and tested by the police:

 

a) If you have not tested yourself, but you have an ethylotest, and you test positive, my guess is that will be taken as tacit admission that you drove suspecting you were under the influence, and have no defence.

 

b) If you have not tested yourself, and you have an ethylotest, and you test negative, you will be in the clear.

 

c) If you have tested yourself, and it showed negative (and that can be proved), but the police test shows positive, it may be accepted in mitigation (but I rather doubt that, since you could have tested yourself after only one drink, rather than after the ensuing six! :-))

 

d) If you have tested yourself, and it showed positive (and that is proved), and the police test also showed positive, then you drove in the full knowledge you were under the influence, and have no defence.

 

e) If you do not have an ethylotest, and the police test shows positive, my guess is that will be taken as tacit admission that you drove suspecting you were under the influence, and have no defence, and will face the additional penalty for not carrying the ethylotest.

 

f) If you do not have an ethylotest, and the police test shows negative, you will be in the clear on drink driving, but will be penalised for not carrying the ethylotest.

 

Consequences?

 

a), d), and e), would, I guess, be interpreted as something akin to aggravated drink driving. Probably fine and immediate loss of licence.

 

b) possibly a caution if the police test shows you below the limit, and nothing if you test fully negative.

 

c) might be accepted as part mitigation, but would presumably require corroboration from others as to the amount you had consumed. If accepted in mitigation, possible fine and points? If mitigation rejected, as a), d), and e), above.

 

f) fine and slap on the wrist, and possibly a formal warning if b) above also applies.

 

In the case of a), d), e), and possibly c) if mitigation is rejected, if you are French, you go out and buy a sub 45kph Aixam or similar, and carry on driving - because you don't need a driving licence to drive one!

 

Very liberal the French (though they are nasty little vehicles): but, why let a driving ban restrict your social drinking? Hic! :-D

[Derek Uzzell]

Patricia - 2012-02-24 1:08 PM

 

Derek I believe they are working on some means of stopping a vehicle's engine starting if a certain limit of alcohol is detected. At present this will only apply to public service vehicles but rumour has it .........

 

With regards to the medical kit it is mandatory in France to stop and offer assistance if there is an accident.

 

Finally I always drive with the luminous vest around my seat - no excuse for them to carry out a search then - most French people do this too.

 

Devices to prevent vehicles being started unless the driver is below a specified drink-driving limit have been available for some years. You can find plenty of French stuff on it if you GOOGLE on "Ethylotest anti-démarrage".

 

France has a 'Good Samaritan' law, but it's much more complex than just stopping and offering assistance in an accident situation. This link (to a 'diving' website) goes into detail:

 

http://www.daneurope.org/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=c09228f3-a745-480b-9549-d9fc8bbbd535&groupId=10103”

 

While it might well be considered contrary to the French Good Samaritan law if a driver of a vehicle carrying a first-aid kit (and/or a fire extinguisher) deliberatly chose not to employ either - or make either available - in a situation where the kit/extinguisher would be beneficial, the law doesn't work backwards.

 

There is (currently) no general French regulation mandating carriage of a first-aid kit or a fire extinguisher in a vehicle. Consequently a driver can't be held liable for not being able to employ a kit/extinguisher if his/her vehicle has not got one.

 

I carry in my motorhome 2 reflective jackets, 2 fire extinguishers, 2 first-aid kits, a warning triangle and a spare set of bulbs. However, as I'm a 100% Bad Samaritan, all these things are there solely for my own (and my wife's) preservation.