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Oh Oh ,A Frame trouble.


vindiboy

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I coppied this from another Motorhome Forum.
After living here a few years it,s not long before you pick up some of the Spanish ways now most of my friends here are Spanish and like some motorhome owners in England they always stop to try and help any other motorhome that looks like it has problems on the side of the road. This i now do if i see a British reg with problems. That is until today. After a good nights fishing in the port at Gandia as i was driving home i saw a UK reg motorhome stopped by the 2 police cars so i stopped to try and help with my little bit of Spanish, The motorhome was towing with an a frame and the gentleman was waving a lot of papers at the police which seemed to be p---ing them of. When they left they had fined him on the spot 90 euros and told him that he cant tow a car like that in Spain.The papers that he showed the police were in Spanish saying that it is legal to do this in England as when a car being towed it becomes a trailer and the police told him in Spain they dont have engines in trailers . The gentleman was on his way with his wife to meet friends that live in Alicante about 75 km away his wife could not drive so what was he to do with the car. this is were the fun starts. As the insurance was him only to drive we left the car parked up he followed me home then we parked the motor home up left his wife in the motor and went back to pick his car up and bring it back.

Then it turned out his friends in Alicante dont drive so if he took the motorhome to them he still could not get back that day to pick the car up.
So muggings here said i would follow them to his friends house and then bring him back to pick the car up which we did so all well in the end. After doing a 150km round trip the last words he said to me was that,s the last time you will see me in F---ing Spain. 

So be warned if your down my way with an A frame and get stopped and some one bibs you and waves in might be me.http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/lol-049.gifhttp://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/lol-049.gifhttp://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/lol-049.gif
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I can imagine as all the Spanish police i have ever seen are a bit strict, expecting you to do exactly as they say and bearing in mind the firearm on their belt, trying to convince them with a bit of paper (which is not a legal document only the 'A' frame makers thoughts on the law) is never going to convince them. Gun verses paper, gun wins every time. It seems you pay for the 'A' frame and you takes your chance.
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I saw this thread as well on the wild camping forum. It should really be no suprise to anyone now as its well documented that A Frames are illegal in Spain.

 

The person using it would or should know that and at the very least should have ensured his wife could have driven the toad if he got pulled. Or better still, got a trailer for spain. No sympathy apart from Ken who helped him out without much gratitude it would seem.

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Why, on these forums, does everyone go on about Spanish Police being armed, I'm yet to read about a Brit tourist or any other for that matter, being shot because they happened to tow with an A frame or they argued with police. Perhaps I've missed all those headlines? B-)
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My OH cannot drive my tow car and this is the main reason that I never bother towing on the Continent. Apart from that I don't see the need unless you are overwintering. FYI I had a discussion with the supplier of my A-Frame about the legalities on the continent and even though he has an agency in France he recommended I did not tow on the Continent simply because of the risk of being stopped and asked to drive separately and there only being a single driver.

 

peedee

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Geoff Tuckley - 2012-02-25 7:51 PM

 

Yes, Vindiboy,

even if he was upset by the police, he really should have shown you some gratitude but don't class us all of the same. I find that these things happen and you can't see why you bother and then something happens to restore your faith in human nature.

 

Isn't this just a posting by someone called "Ken" that Vindiboy ("Malc") has quoted from the Wild Camping forum to entertain us?

 

I've been talking at length to my pal Jeremy about motorhome A-frame towing and we both agree that the best way forward is to take the A-framers out and shoot them in front of their families (along with bankers, politicians, public servants, cowboy builders, caravanners, egg thieves, queue-jumpers, etc.) Although this policy may seem extreme, there can be no doubt that it will settle the A-framing argument once and for all - if there are no A-framers, then questions about the practice's 'legality' just won't arise on motorhome forums and this will save so much pointless wrangling. I believe Jeremy intends to mention this proposal on tonight's "Top Gear" programme and will be asking for volunteer executioners.

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Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-26 9:17 AM

 

 

 

I've been talking at length to my pal Jeremy about motorhome A-frame towing and we both agree that the best way forward is to take the A-framers out and shoot them in front of their families (along with bankers, politicians, public servants, cowboy builders, caravanners, egg thieves, queue-jumpers, etc.) Although this policy may seem extreme, there can be no doubt that it will settle the A-framing argument once and for all - if there are no A-framers, then questions about the practice's 'legality' just won't arise on motorhome forums and this will save so much pointless wrangling. I believe Jeremy intends to mention this proposal on tonight's "Top Gear" programme and will be asking for volunteer executioners.

 

 

Might be worth a try Derek, but I would caution you that taking people out and shooting them is illegal in some countries.

 

;-)

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malc d - 2012-02-26 9:26 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-26 9:17 AM

 

 

 

I've been talking at length to my pal Jeremy about motorhome A-frame towing and we both agree that the best way forward is to take the A-framers out and shoot them in front of their families (along with bankers, politicians, public servants, cowboy builders, caravanners, egg thieves, queue-jumpers, etc.) Although this policy may seem extreme, there can be no doubt that it will settle the A-framing argument once and for all - if there are no A-framers, then questions about the practice's 'legality' just won't arise on motorhome forums and this will save so much pointless wrangling. I believe Jeremy intends to mention this proposal on tonight's "Top Gear" programme and will be asking for volunteer executioners.

 

 

Might be worth a try Derek, but I would caution you that taking people out and shooting them is illegal in some countries.

 

;-)

 

I think you'll find it's OK in the UK in this particular instance. There's a clause in the UK Trailer regulations that says:

 

"If the driver of a vehicle towing a trailer proves unable to reverse successfully through a sinuous course (see Diagram 4) laid out on a 18% incline, he/she will be subject to summary execution and 3 driving-licence penalty points."

 

Not many people know that...

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Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-26 9:17 AM

 

Geoff Tuckley - 2012-02-25 7:51 PM

 

Yes, Vindiboy,

even if he was upset by the police, he really should have shown you some gratitude but don't class us all of the same. I find that these things happen and you can't see why you bother and then something happens to restore your faith in human nature.

 

Isn't this just a posting by someone called "Ken" that Vindiboy ("Malc") has quoted from the Wild Camping forum to entertain us?

 

I've been talking at length to my pal Jeremy about motorhome A-frame towing and we both agree that the best way forward is to take the A-framers out and shoot them in front of their families (along with bankers, politicians, public servants, cowboy builders, caravanners, egg thieves, queue-jumpers, etc.) Although this policy may seem extreme, there can be no doubt that it will settle the A-framing argument once and for all - if there are no A-framers, then questions about the practice's 'legality' just won't arise on motorhome forums and this will save so much pointless wrangling. I believe Jeremy intends to mention this proposal on tonight's "Top Gear" programme and will be asking for volunteer executioners.

 

can we add 'Users Of Non-Chemical 'SOG' systems who stand Behind/in front of me, indeed anywhere within 25 yards of me when emptying their Toilet cassettes. I'd volunteer to do the shooting in those cases. >:-) Ray

'I love the smell of Formaldyhyde on a Summer morning'. (so much better than SHXX i think !).

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malc d - 2012-02-26 9:26 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-02-26 9:17 AM

 

 

 

I've been talking at length to my pal Jeremy about motorhome A-frame towing and we both agree that the best way forward is to take the A-framers out and shoot them in front of their families (along with bankers, politicians, public servants, cowboy builders, caravanners, egg thieves, queue-jumpers, etc.) Although this policy may seem extreme, there can be no doubt that it will settle the A-framing argument once and for all - if there are no A-framers, then questions about the practice's 'legality' just won't arise on motorhome forums and this will save so much pointless wrangling. I believe Jeremy intends to mention this proposal on tonight's "Top Gear" programme and will be asking for volunteer executioners.

 

 

Might be worth a try Derek, but I would caution you that taking people out and shooting them is illegal in some countries.

 

;-)

 

Not in Spain !!! evidently ???? 8-) Ray

 

ps. In Answer to Hopesy, I remember a 'Drunk' British Karate expert (unarmed) who was shot and killed by Spanish police for not 'Coming Quietly'. no-one got the sack or even cautioned as I recall.

Which just goes to prove that ' The Matrix' is definately Fiction.

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Geoff Tuckley - 2012-02-25 7:51 PMYes, Vindiboy,even if he was upset by the police, he really should have shown you some gratitude but don't class us all of the same. I find that these things happen and you can't see why you bother and then something happens to restore your faith in human nature.
I agree, but it wasn't me involved. I just copied the post and passed it on.
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stantheman - 2012-02-26 7:02 PM

 

Considering the dire economic situation that Spain is in, I wouldn't think that they are in a position to discourage any inovative new industry, be it A-frame, B-frame, C-frame or any other manufacturers!

 

Can I ask why people are SO against A frames????????? Towing with a trailer is SO much of a hassle and where do you park one when you are on an aire or even a campsite.

 

I agree with Stantheman that it seems strange that now when the Spanish economy is sliding do they turn against tourisim especially during the winter months. Perhaps they are using their guns to shoot theirselves in the foot!!!!

 

Regards Cleo

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cleo - 2012-02-26 9:26 PM

 

stantheman - 2012-02-26 7:02 PM

 

Considering the dire economic situation that Spain is in, I wouldn't think that they are in a position to discourage any inovative new industry, be it A-frame, B-frame, C-frame or any other manufacturers!

 

Can I ask why people are SO against A frames????????? Towing with a trailer is SO much of a hassle and where do you park one when you are on an aire or even a campsite.

 

I agree with Stantheman that it seems strange that now when the Spanish economy is sliding do they turn against tourisim especially during the winter months. Perhaps they are using their guns to shoot theirselves in the foot!!!!

 

Regards Cleo

 

The police are just following the law in their country and A Frames are illegal in Spain. Are you saying just because times are hard they should allow their laws to be broken? Doesnt seem right to me. I was talking to a guy the other day who has witnessed three toads on fire due to dodgy A Frame breaking. If thats true (and i know personally of one that is true) then maybe they are illegal for a reason.

 

If you need a car then buy a caravan or do like we do and put a scooter on a rack.

 

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cleo - 2012-02-26 9:26 PM

 

...Can I ask why people are SO against A frames?????????...

 

Regards Cleo

 

I don't believe people are against A frames as such, but sadomasochism is always going to be entertaining for the sadist, though perhaps less so for the masochist.

 

Any questioning of A-framing legality inevitably provokes a reaction from A-framers ("Why does everybody dislike us?") and all the forum sadists then have a bit of smile and, if they can be bothered and have the time, do some extra stirring to fan the flames. The more heated and bizarre the discussion becomes the greater the pleasure for the sadists, and the more dismay, hurt and misery for the A-framing masochists. Seems like a perfect match to me - long may it continue.

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peedee - 2012-02-26 8:54 AMMy OH cannot drive my tow car and this is the main reason that I never bother towing on the Continent. Apart from that I don't see the need unless you are overwintering. FYI I had a discussion with the supplier of my A-Frame about the legalities on the continent and even though he has an agency in France he recommended I did not tow on the Continent simply because of the risk of being stopped and asked to drive separately and there only being a single driver.peedee

Perhaps an answer to your problem could lie here

http://www.labissonnette.fr/index.php

A purpose built legal in all countries trailer carrying a 'sans permis' car that your wife could drive too :-)

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Retread24800 - 2012-02-27 3:34 PM
peedee - 2012-02-26 8:54 AMMy OH cannot drive my tow car and this is the main reason that I never bother towing on the Continent. Apart from that I don't see the need unless you are overwintering. FYI I had a discussion with the supplier of my A-Frame about the legalities on the continent and even though he has an agency in France he recommended I did not tow on the Continent simply because of the risk of being stopped and asked to drive separately and there only being a single driver.peedee

Perhaps an answer to your problem could lie here

http://www.labissonnette.fr/index.php

A purpose built legal in all countries trailer carrying a 'sans permis' car that your wife could drive too :-)

So is this supposed to be safer than an A-frame given that it's legal? Words fail me! 8-) Mike
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Mike B. - 2012-02-27 4:50 PM
Retread24800 - 2012-02-27 3:34 PM
peedee - 2012-02-26 8:54 AMMy OH cannot drive my tow car and this is the main reason that I never bother towing on the Continent. Apart from that I don't see the need unless you are overwintering. FYI I had a discussion with the supplier of my A-Frame about the legalities on the continent and even though he has an agency in France he recommended I did not tow on the Continent simply because of the risk of being stopped and asked to drive separately and there only being a single driver.peedee

Perhaps an answer to your problem could lie here

http://www.labissonnette.fr/index.php

A purpose built legal in all countries trailer carrying a 'sans permis' car that your wife could drive too :-)

So is this supposed to be safer than an A-frame given that it's legal? Words fail me! 8-) Mike
Have you seen how much it costs! Nearly €20000 for the car and trailer package or nearly €5000 for just the trailer! good grief!
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Mike B. - 2012-02-27 5:50 PM
Retread24800 - 2012-02-27 3:34 PM

Perhaps an answer to your problem could lie here

http://www.labissonnette.fr/index.php

A purpose built legal in all countries trailer carrying a 'sans permis' car that your wife could drive too :-)

So is this supposed to be safer than an A-frame given that it's legal? Words fail me! 8-) Mike

If by that you mean that a properly tested homologated trailer that at 750kg all up is safer than an un tested A-Frame towing a 1000kg car that you cannot reverse then yes.

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Retread24800 - 2012-02-27 5:38 PM
Mike B. - 2012-02-27 5:50 PM
Retread24800 - 2012-02-27 3:34 PM

Perhaps an answer to your problem could lie here

http://www.labissonnette.fr/index.php

A purpose built legal in all countries trailer carrying a 'sans permis' car that your wife could drive too :-)

So is this supposed to be safer than an A-frame given that it's legal? Words fail me! 8-) Mike

If by that you mean that a properly tested homologated trailer that at 750kg all up is safer than an un tested A-Frame towing a 1000kg car that you cannot reverse then yes.

Yep-a see-saw 2 wheeler 750kg trailer rather than a braked car with a wheel at each corner is exactly what I meant. I tow a 2 wheeler unbraked 750kg trailer and/or a 4 wheeled braked car on an a-frame and I know which I would prefer with a 4 wheel car on the back.At £19000+ it is a no-brainer anywayMike
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So a Smart car and the cost of an A frame at say £13000 which ATM can be used only in the UK is a good deal against 19000 Euro or £16000 which can be used anywhere?

(You can save a further 5000 E by choosing a lower spec lave-linge so at 14000 E or £11500 :-) )

But this option would allow a single driver the ability to have a toad abroad, which surely was the question.

 A Car can never be a trailer in Europe no more than carrying a chainsaw in 4 wheel trailer makes it into a car.

European directive 2007/46/EC defines a trailer as "any non-self-propelled vehicle, designed and built to be towed by a vehicle". In the European classification of the different types of vehicles, trailers belong to category 0,cars to category M1.

 

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