More PVC stuff

[ips]

Thought I would start a new thread but its connected to the possible van change thread......

Oh and in case anyone is interesed the sciatica sems much improved since yesterdays physio wont be doing cart wheels any time soon but going in the right direction.... any way here goes.

 

Further discussion wth mrs ips and her dodgy hip and we are pretty much decided on a PVC (please dont remeind me of any previous posts of mine on the subject and the fact that I was a total CB fan) just fancy a change really and dont want to use scooter any more so would like ease of parking etc..

so have some questions

 

1 - I get 27mpg at 70mph what can I expect at th same speed with a tranny and or fiat PVC

2 - is there ful standing height (I am5'10") in something like the afformentioned globecar or adria

3 - Are the showers usable (I know it depends on model but generaly speaking)

4 - Are they as warm as a CB or do you get a lot of condensation from the metal bits like rear door

5 - With the obvious limitations of size is a made up bed really just eating into space

6 - For anyone who has changed from CB to PVC what was the one factor that made you change and or the one you found to be most beneficial. Also anyone changed from a CB and wished they hadnt and reasons please.

 

[Mike88]

1. You should get better fuel consumption with a PVC.

 

2. Yes there is full standing height. I'm 6ft 1".

 

3. The shower's usable on mine.

 

4. They are not as warm as a CB but never had a problem with condensation as blinds and double glazing are effective.

 

5. Personally I would not go for a fixed bed in a PVC but some on here like them. It's down to personal choice. I have opted for a rear lounge with 2 x singles which take about 30 seconds to make up. In fact most of the time when abroad I leave them permanently made up as we live outside.

 

6.I have never owneed a CB but have owned several caravans most of which required remedial work for damp. Never ever would I contemplate a CB for this reason. But if your overriding need is space then a CB is better but not for me.

 

7. Speaking to several PVC owners who have previously owned CBs the overriding opinions seem to be positive about a change to PVC ownership.

[Guest JudgeMental]

you really have to get down to globecar and have a look.....

 

our van with transverse bed is exactly the same layout as our coachbuilt but smaller. same size water tanks, same size fridge and same size gas locker. bed is MUCH better, bathroom a lot smaller but at 18 stone I manage... and lounge at front smaller but adequate for 2. the rear bed that tilts up for storage. suits us as we like different tv programs and I can go and read in peace or go on laptop, As wife tends to get up earlier then me. so again separate areas suit us..I could not imagine sleeping and living in same area...again, that us! we are not joined at the hip

 

I just much prefer a panel van it suits our style of camping. I haven't a clue what kind of camping you do..if you go away a lot in the winter for long periods maybe better of sticking with what you have..

 

we are 3 season users at most, as we like to fly somewhere HOT in winter ( India tour this Christmas just booked!) so did not want to pay 50k + on something I don't get that much use out of. with the panel van I use it when I need to if not cycling..its like a 2nd car

 

there s only so much you can learn from a forum you have to get around and look at the things....

 

My only regret is not getting auto option (it is now available on all engines) and will maybe change next year for twin single bed model as wife wanted that..I did not as longer van not as practical in London..

 

did you look at links to vans I posted on other thread?

 

 

[ips]

Been in touch with globecar dealer at notingham offered me a px no prob. Off to have a look prob be easter now. We used to go away in winter but not much now just a dec weekend and a feb weekend in windsor to see mini ips. Generally sat eve to mon lunch trips due to work commitments for both of us then a couple of one week and a couple of long weekends, so that and the fact that theres only two of us now makes us consider the change. Cant seem to find anything in budget apart from the adria you reccomend and the globecar, I aint paying autocruise prices for a pvc no way. Interested in the above questions re-mpg etc and interested in any other makes to look at but must be new and 35k ish

 

I like the adria SF that could be interesting option

[Guest JudgeMental]

you will not get a new RHD UK dealer supplied van for £35000. German LHD yes

[snowie]

JudgeMental - 2012-03-01 11:48 AM

 

you really have to get down to globecar and have a look.....

 

 

use it when I need to if not cycling..its like a 2nd car

 

there s only so much you can learn from a forum you have to get around and look at the things....

 

My only regret is not getting auto option (it is now available on all engines) and will maybe change next year for twin single bed model as wife wanted that..I did not as longer van not as practical in London..

 

did you look at links to vans I posted on other thread?

 

 

 

I'd agree with that, get inside one and see if the cat swings!

 

And I'd agree with the rest of what you say, it's down to your style of camping. We bought a van, deliberately a PVC, with the intention of wintering in the sun; probably Spain or Portugal. We haven't got round to that yet, partly because it really wouldn't suit our PVC (others may differ ), particularly our layout ; the prospect of spending long dark evenings in our admittedly compact van, with dim, battery saving lighting is a bit SAD. Weather that can't be relied upon and limited space to dry out doesn't appeal, we'd rather have our house and log fire for a few winter weeks and then get out in the van when spring starts to show itself.

 

We would probably think differently if we had a large CB or an A-Class; but that would be a completely different style of camping,

 

regards

 

alan b

 

 

 

[ips]

Alan

Yes your right it does depend on type of "camping"

Before the MH we had boats (sports cruisers on windermere) The 1st brand new one we bought after a couple of used uns to get used to waht we wanted was a 19' cuddy (Thats a small ish sports boat wth a cuddy cabin at the front no cooker and had a porta potti), we had a ball for a couple of years cooking on a camp stove and loved it then we moved up to a 28' sports cruiser with full ammenities just like a MH or caravan really, 2 cabins, built in toilet shower oven micro heating etc etc etc beautifull boat and cost more than my last house. Anyway the point I am making is that its not allways about size or value or amenities, sometimes its more fun to get back to basics. Thats the reason we look back on camping as kids and young adults and in fact camping with mini ips when she was younger with such happy memorys. Now who agrees with that statement I bet a lot do ?

[Guest JudgeMental]

not a lot on here I imagine as not all are campers at heart.....They like to take a mini version of their home with them, with all the amenities, cook full 3 course roast dinners and the like. They don't go far, if they venture further then France.it is a major event, so the large unwieldy box on wheels suits them.....

 

not us I'm afraid...we are campers at heart and only traded up to vans because of my back

[Brian Kirby]

Just my own observations, based on looking, not owning. :-)

 

First, the only vans that have a bodyshell wide enough to comfortably take a transverse bed are Ducato and clones, or Master and clones. (Cue shrieks of "Master isn't wide enough", and I haven't measured the beds [though I have Renault's technical drawings, which show it is the same external width as the Ducato] but there are now a few on the market with transverse beds, mainly in France.) Sprinter, Crafter, Daily, and Transit are all too narrow, resulting in a short bed. So, if you want a transverse bed, you'll need a Ducato clone (lots) or a Master clone (rare)!

 

If you want permanent twin longitudinal beds (that you can leave made up), your choice of van is as above, because this layout in any of the others will result in one, or both, beds being narrow, but IMO you will need the long bodyshell version (6.4M approx +/-). This layout could be a good compromise.

 

If you are prepared to make up sofas into beds (which means storing bedding while using sofas), then any of the above vans could work. Probably most comfortable layout is the Murvi Morello (or a variation on that theme), with a forward sofa that converts to a longitudinal double. These run heavy at the front, and the 3,500kg version is pretty much necessary to avoid front axle overload. RWD Transit becomes possible, and can have advantages with traction, but higher floor makes entry/exit more difficult and compromises headroom a bit. Quite a few UK converters offer conversions on Ducato and Transit.

 

All van bodyshells taper at roof level, so the high level cupboards will be be shallow compared to a CB. The same taper can make the washrooms feel cramped, and some definitely are cramped. IMO, except for the Morello layout type, shower for contortionists/sadists/emergencies, and I would use sites for ablutions in comfort! :-)

 

Most kitchen blocks (again except Morello type convertible sofa layouts) are small and shallow with little workspace, small sink, two burner hob, and often a small fridge. How this works for you will depend on how much you eat out, and what you eat in! Morello (and a few of the UK convertible sofa layouts) has a huge kitchen with a decent cooker and fridge.

 

Gas is sometimes only one 7kg size, and some include as standard an underfloor LPG tank. Depends on how you use gas.

 

Some retain the manufacturers' standard glass windows, others cut in double glazed plastic windows. The glass variety can cause condensation problems.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

To answer your questions one by one........

 

1 - I get 27mpg at 70mph what can I expect at th same speed with a tranny and or fiat PVC

 

You must already have an astonishingly good vehicle to get 27 mpg at 70, however our 2.8 jtd gives us around 31 in the UK, but as much as 37 in France, but probably not at a true 70 mph though. I have no idea why the difference in France.

 

2 - is there ful standing height (I am5'10") in something like the afformentioned globecar or adria

 

Obviously depends on the van, but as far as I'm aware most do, our particular IH is somewhat different as it has a slightly raised floor just for the rear lounge, which then provides a rear boot space as we have NO rear doors, far superior in every way we found to our previous Trigano, both from a lack of draughts or cold spots.

 

3 - Are the showers usable (I know it depends on model but generaly speaking)

 

Ours is superb.

 

4 - Are they as warm as a CB or do you get a lot of condensation from the metal bits like rear door

 

No condensation whatsoever, but the lack of exposed metal and the lack of rear doors probably helps.

Ours is far easier to both warm up and keep toasty hot than two previous CB's, and far kinder on the gas.

 

5 - With the obvious limitations of size is a made up bed really just eating into space

 

We do not have a fixed bed, but if there was any single change I could make it would be the option to have two single beds utilising the rear lounge, not possible on our 2003 vehicle as the extra length x250's were not in our price range when we were looking, I hate with a passion cushion shuffling at the end of a long day.

 

6 - For anyone who has changed from CB to PVC what was the one factor that made you change and or the one you found to be most beneficial. Also anyone changed from a CB and wished they hadnt and reasons please.

 

I'm sure I've made the points so many times but to repeat, number one factor was ease of access to anywhere, a car like driving experience, that was so staggering different to our CB that I still recall the first test drive of a Trigano PVC that made the decision to buy almost instant, a dreadful mistake as it happened as I was blinded to everything about the van that proved to be a pain in the butt on the first try out trip, a loo that you had to perch on, bed making that would have outwitted someone with a high Mensa IQ, useless Eberspacher heater, non existent insulation ( that probably made the Eberspacher useless in retrospect, I could go on and on, so you need to get it right, our IH is just luxury in comparison to the Trigano PVC which we only used on two brief outings before PXing for our current IH. Yes they are very pricey, but good second hand ones come up from time to time, and they are just that, very good, and NO I don't have any connection with them.

 

An unexpected bonus with both PVC's was a total absence of "conversion rattles" another pet hate , . ;-)

[Mel B]

Hi ips, I'm getting a little bit concerned ... if you go down the PVC route it doesn't mean it will be any easier to park than your current Flash, the only difference will be that the body will be narrower, but not necessary the overall width including the mirrors. If you go for a longer PVC, say up to 6.3m, this could cause a bigger problem for you with parking as you wouldn't then have the scooter to tootle about on as you do at present.

 

When you try to park your current van what specifically is the problem you have when looking for a parking spot? We've found the biggest restriction has always been the length of MHs, so a narrower but same length or longer PVC wouldn't solve this and a PVC won't have the wonderful turning circle you have now.

 

Your original requirements were:

 

1) Must be brand new - difficult on your budget as Eddie has pointed out unless you go for LHD and/or basic spec.

 

2) Preferably max 5.99m - do-able but the space will be compromised, especially the shower area if you go for a fixed bed getting in/out could actually be more difficult due to the smaller 'hatch' area to climb through.

 

3) 2 / 3 berth possible but the 3rd bed could prove to be a pain to make up and less than ideal in comfort/size.

 

4) Ideally transit based but not essential - the Transit is a no-no as too narrow if you want a transverse bed.

 

5) Permanent made up bed but low not over garage - this could prove difficult and may cause restrictions on space elsewhere and/or you having to go for a longer PVC.

 

6) Dont suppose a garage will be an option with layout so a lot of / big storage lockers - most fixed bed ones come with a garage, or at least a large storage area under the bed (but the bed in most cases is still fairly high). With a PVC you won't get the large amount of storage you have in your Flash.

 

7) Nice usable shower - unless you got for a longer PVC they are all a bit tight - the only one I've seen that wasn't was the Globescout Style where the shower area is formed in the centre of the van by pulling out screens, but this is way over you budget.

 

8) Preferably off side door - you'll only get this buy getting a foreign make I'm afraid.

 

Going for a rear lounge PVC (no fixed bed or lounge up front) would mean that taking mini-ips could be a no-no. A front lounge version (sofa and single seat) could be a pain for getting in and out of a longitudinal bed between the wardrobe and the kitchen unit as you'd have to 'shuffle' down however if it had the option of single beds this would be negated.

 

How do you use your MH? Do you utilise the lounge and bed as two separate relaxing spaces - we do, I often sit in the lounge doing my puzzle book etc whilst hubby has a kip on the bed, or I'll go up on the bed and do a bit of web browsing whilst he tidies and washes up etc.

 

I don't want to come across as negative, but just to bring you back to thinking about your original requirements as it is very easy to get swayed when you see these nice looking PVCs. We very nearly bought a PVC but got the Flash instead as it fitted our needs, and still does. I love the look and styling etc of PVCs but it was just a step too far for us with the compromises it brought.

[ips]

Mel. Absolutely everything you say is correct. Think i need to lose the scooter drop the bed and see how we get on. Just have to find suitable parking and or use bus.

Thanks for putting it into perspective.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I was about to say to the previous poster MelB, PLEASE don't turn it into a PVC versus CB debate, it's been done to death, and of course most will defend their choice until oddly they change their vehicle, all I can say in conclusion is try and see all the PVC's that are in your price range, you may well end up sticking with what you've got, who knows, but the extra width CB, versus extra length PVC is all swings and roundabouts and a red herring as far as I'm concerned, you'll always find drawbacks with both . ;-)

[Mel B]

1footinthegrave - 2012-03-01 6:29 PM

 

I was about to say to the previous poster MelB, PLEASE don't turn it into a PVC versus CB debate, it's been done to death, and of course most will defend their choice until oddly they change their vehicle, all I can say in conclusion is try and see all the PVC's that are in your price range, you may well end up sticking with what you've got, who knows, . ;-)

 

Hey foottie ... I wasn't turning it into any sort of debate. :-S

 

When the time comes, and I'm sure it will, that a PVC suits what we want to do more than a CB then that's the way we'll go, I don't have an axe to grind about either, both have their advantages and disadvantages, however it's the disadvantages that are generally the ones that get forgotten about when looking at shiney new vans, but these are the things that cause the most problems and I suggest are why a lot of people change vehicles when they realise they can't live with the restrictions they 'glossed over' or didn't fully comprehend (not that I'm suggesting ips is doing this!). :D

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

If you re-read my post that's exactly the point I made with our first choice of PVC, don't buy in haste.Our first foray a Trigano tribute was to put it mildly crap in every respect ;-)

[Mel B]

ips - 2012-03-01 6:20 PM

 

Mel. Absolutely everything you say is correct. Think i need to lose the scooter drop the bed and see how we get on. Just have to find suitable parking and or use bus.

Thanks for putting it into perspective.

 

What about electric bikes? Either folding ones that will allow the bed to go lower, or put them on a bike rack.

 

Going back to your Flash and getting in/out of the bed - is it because it is a stretch even using the lower step, or are you trying to get away with no steps at all? I've had a shuftie (yes another!) at our van today and it may be possible to make a false raised floor section outside the washroom to make the climb less - it would mean that you'd need to cut down the lower cupboard door (or use another one so you don't spoil the original one for re-sale) so that it would open over the raised floor section; the washroom wouldn't be a major problem as you have to step over a 3-4 inch section to go into it anyway; the only real compromise would be the 'loss' of easy access to the bottom drawer.

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Brian I really wish you would go and look at Renault camper as I know you will be disappointed...Here is a pic from Düsseldorf show in 2010.of latest van (the van has got no wider *-)) I have been in 2 two versions in 2010 and they have not been adopted by many manufacturers for good reason I believe as. just not a practical size van for a camper

 

IPS the 2nd pic is the globecar twin beds

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

not sure what happened but here is adria twin bed layout

 

 

[flicka]

Hi IPS

Can't comment on specifics regarding PVC, as we have low profile CB.

 

One point that appears to have been omitted,

If you go for a long version of the PVC's, (6.3m) it will be on the LWB chassis, which will increase the turning circle & possibly cause more difficulties for parking in towns, etc..

A long wheelbase is as big a limiting factor as width, when in tight places.

 

Regarding your current Flash -

I wonder, would you need to do get rid of the Scooter ?

I'm not sure how the Flash bed raises & lowers or how easy it is to do, but as your scooter currently fits in the garage, could you keep it, park it outside overnight & lower the bed for sleeping..

 

Considering your current Motorhome usage pattern (UK only) & lack of new RHD PVC's within your budget.would you really want to consider a LHD to keep in budget ?????

 

 

[snowie]

ips - 2012-03-01 10:16 AM

 

Thought I would start a new thread but its connected to the possible van change thread......

Oh and in case anyone is interesed the sciatica sems much improved since yesterdays physio wont be doing cart wheels any time soon but going in the right direction.... any way here goes.

 

Further discussion wth mrs ips and her dodgy hip and we are pretty much decided on a PVC (please dont remeind me of any previous posts of mine on the subject and the fact that I was a total CB fan) just fancy a change really and dont want to use scooter any more so would like ease of parking etc..

so have some questions

 

1 - I get 27mpg at 70mph what can I expect at th same speed with a tranny and or fiat PVC

 

Don't know about 70mph, we get about 30mpg overall; and on motorways I have a heavy right foot.

 

2 - is there ful standing height (I am5'10") in something like the afformentioned globecar or adria

 

I don't think headroom will be a problem; unless you've got an insulated floor or storage compartments.

 

3 - Are the showers usable (I know it depends on model but generaly speaking)

 

If your useage is mostly uk, then you'll be staying on sites as no aires, so shower facilities on site.

Also; a bit more planning and choose sites with access and transport in mind.

 

 

4 - Are they as warm as a CB or do you get a lot of condensation from the metal bits like rear door

 

Ask about insulation spec, but being more compact will probably be cosier.

 

5 - With the obvious limitations of size is a made up bed really just eating into space

 

Eat into? it will probably account for 40-50% of floor area!

 

6 - Also anyone changed from a CB and wished they hadnt and reasons please.

 

Can't comment, but I think 6M is as small as I'd want to go.

 

Just done a sketch of a longitudinal bed, underbed storage, compact toilet/shower, and compact galley, clear sliding door area.

 

A bit like a large version of an early VW.

 

We'd have to take less clothes and clutter, but it would probably suit our requirements in 3-5 years time. But it wouldn't suit many other people's I would suspect.

But that's the issue; it's a set of personal compromises

 

cheers

alan b

 

 

 

 

[snowie]

ips - 2012-03-01 10:16 AM

 

Thought I would start a new thread but its connected to the possible van change thread......

Oh and in case anyone is interesed the sciatica sems much improved since yesterdays physio wont be doing cart wheels any time soon but going in the right direction.... any way here goes.

 

Further discussion wth mrs ips and her dodgy hip and we are pretty much decided on a PVC (please dont remeind me of any previous posts of mine on the subject and the fact that I was a total CB fan) just fancy a change really and dont want to use scooter any more so would like ease of parking etc..

so have some questions

 

1 - I get 27mpg at 70mph what can I expect at th same speed with a tranny and or fiat PVC

 

Don't know about 70mph, we get about 30mpg overall; and on motorways I have a heavy right foot.

 

2 - is there ful standing height (I am5'10") in something like the afformentioned globecar or adria

 

I don't think headroom will be a problem; unless you've got an insulated floor or storage compartments.

 

3 - Are the showers usable (I know it depends on model but generaly speaking)

 

If your useage is mostly uk, then you'll be staying on sites as no aires, so shower facilities on site.

Also; a bit more planning and choose sites with access and transport in mind.

 

 

4 - Are they as warm as a CB or do you get a lot of condensation from the metal bits like rear door

 

Ask about insulation spec, but being more compact will probably be cosier.

 

5 - With the obvious limitations of size is a made up bed really just eating into space

 

Eat into? it will probably account for 40-50% of floor area!

 

6 - Also anyone changed from a CB and wished they hadnt and reasons please.

 

Can't comment, but I think 6M is as small as I'd want to go.

 

Just done a sketch of a longitudinal bed, underbed storage, compact toilet/shower, and compact galley, clear sliding door area.

 

A bit like a large version of an early VW.

 

We'd have to take less clothes and clutter, but it would probably suit our requirements in 3-5 years time. But it wouldn't suit many other people's I would suspect.

But that's the issue; it's a set of personal compromises

 

cheers

alan b

 

 

 

 

[snowie]

Sorry folks!

 

I thought I was using "quote" facility; the QUOTES seem to have disappeared, and I certainly didn't intend to post twice ( and now three times )

 

cheers

alan b

[ips]

flicka - 2012-03-01 9:10 PM

 

Hi IPS

Can't comment on specifics regarding PVC, as we have low profile CB.

 

One point that appears to have been omitted,

If you go for a long version of the PVC's, (6.3m) it will be on the LWB chassis, which will increase the turning circle & possibly cause more difficulties for parking in towns, etc..

A long wheelbase is as big a limiting factor as width, when in tight places.

 

Regarding your current Flash -

I wonder, would you need to do get rid of the Scooter ?

I'm not sure how the Flash bed raises & lowers or how easy it is to do, but as your scooter currently fits in the garage, could you keep it, park it outside overnight & lower the bed for sleeping..

 

Considering your current Motorhome usage pattern (UK only) & lack of new RHD PVC's within your budget.would you really want to consider a LHD to keep in budget ?????

 

 

Ficka

The problem with scooter is that we dont acctually use it much anymore and its not comfy for my back or mrs ips's arthritic hip also its a bit awkward getting it in and out with my back soits defo having to go reardless of if we change or not. I reckon with the bed at the lowest it will be pretty do-able for my back etc however the more I think about it the more I fancy a change

[bolero boy]

This trendscout available at SMC for £32,990

http://www.globecarmotorhomes.co/the-range/trendscout-566ul.html

[Guest JudgeMental]

bolero boy - 2012-03-02 9:39 AM

 

This trendscout available at SMC for £32,990

http://www.globecarmotorhomes.co/the-range/trendscout-566ul.html

 

And 4 identical brand new RHD vans from the German dealer I use for £26,000 each *-)

 

I posted details of these on IPS original thread...I wonder sometimes why I bother :-|

 

please note SMC prices are "from" German dealer gives good discounts