snowie Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 We have a 08 Ducato PVC that in an earlier life was a double glazing contractor's van. We are on around 28K miles now, and getting close to a couple of new front tyres. The ride is pretty harsh at times, so wondering whether to change to motorhome/camper specific tyres. Unfortunately that would suggest 4 new tyres at one go! Probably 5 even, as we have a spare; brand new and unused. Any experience and or recommendations very welcome, principally whether the benefits are worth such a drastic expenditure? (in your opinion). Continental Vanco came out best in 08 test I came across.; but at £800 a set of 5 I'll maybe think again!! cheers alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 any tyre you fit should be of same or higher rating than originals, mh tyres are generaly higher rating and designed to be run harder, so will not give you a softer ride. You may wiah to weight van and match tyre prwssures to acrual load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 camping tyres are more designed for large Motorhomes like coach builts and A class. On a PVC you are unlikely to be near he same weights or risk of overloading, so standard Van tyres are fine and should give a slighly softer ride. Better quality premium tyres will tend to give a softer ride than cheap ones and be less prone to square wheels after being parked up for a long time not used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 snowie - 2012-03-02 2:37 PM We have a 08 Ducato PVC that in an earlier life was a double glazing contractor's van. We are on around 28K miles now, and getting close to a couple of new front tyres. The ride is pretty harsh at times, so wondering whether to change to motorhome/camper specific tyres. Unfortunately that would suggest 4 new tyres at one go! Probably 5 even, as we have a spare; brand new and unused. Any experience and or recommendations very welcome, principally whether the benefits are worth such a drastic expenditure? (in your opinion). Continental Vanco came out best in 08 test I came across.; but at £800 a set of 5 I'll maybe think again!! cheers alan b IMO, best economical option will be to get one new tyre of same make, type, size, and duty as the existing tyres, and get that fitted in lieu of the worst existing front tyre, then get the fitters to take present rears on front (best on nearside), existing spare plus new tyre on rear, and keep the best remaining front tyre as the spare. Next time around you'll need two new tyres, one to replace the worst front, and one to replace the spare, which go to the rear, with the rears moved to the front again, and the remaining (best) front going as the spare, and so on, ad infinitum! But, that's just me. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-03-02 5:46 PM snowie - 2012-03-02 2:37 PM We have a 08 Ducato PVC that in an earlier life was a double glazing contractor's van. We are on around 28K miles now, and getting close to a couple of new front tyres. The ride is pretty harsh at times, so wondering whether to change to motorhome/camper specific tyres. Unfortunately that would suggest 4 new tyres at one go! Probably 5 even, as we have a spare; brand new and unused. Any experience and or recommendations very welcome, principally whether the benefits are worth such a drastic expenditure? (in your opinion). Continental Vanco came out best in 08 test I came across.; but at £800 a set of 5 I'll maybe think again!! cheers alan b IMO, best economical option will be to get one new tyre of same make, type, size, and duty as the existing tyres, and get that fitted in lieu of the worst existing front tyre, then get the fitters to take present rears on front (best on nearside), existing spare plus new tyre on rear, and keep the best remaining front tyre as the spare. Next time around you'll need two new tyres, one to replace the worst front, and one to replace the spare, which go to the rear, with the rears moved to the front again, and the remaining (best) front going as the spare, and so on, ad infinitum! But, that's just me. :-) Sounds good to me... I certainly wouldn't switch to 'camping-car' tyres in the hope that this might produce a softer ride - in fact (as has already been suggested) there's every chance this type of tyre's heavier-duty construction would make matters worse. As Colin advises, it would be worth weighing the motorhome in its normal 'fully loaded' state, to check whether the tyre pressures currently being used are unnecessarily high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Hi snowie, have a look at www.tyre-shopper.co.uk put your size in and have a look at the results. You`ll be pleasantly surprised . I`ve not long since replaced 4 tyres on my motorhome 215/75/16 with the correct load and speed rating for £300 fitted. They are Tigar Cargospeed and in the 6000 miles i`ve done on them so far they have performed much much better on both dry and wet roads as well as plenty of grip on grass than the Michelins that were on the van before. You can also choose your fitting centre. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Being something of a rare beast in having had the same van for over 20 years :D...........We are now on our 3rd set of rubber.................None of which were changed due to wear and tear..... The first set were changed due to going square according to the MOT............ I assume means Horace was sat on his a***e doing nothing for months/years on end.............that was true :$.........................we changed to Hankooks which were fine and only replaced them the year before last for exactly the same................they made an amazing difference that I put down to being young rubber..........so it seems to me rubber gets stiff with age ;-) Next time I reckon I will get winter tyres as they are a softer rubber to start with :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I shunned 'camping car' branded tyres many years ago and am firmly of the view that the only thing they excel at is returning lucrative profits for manufacturers and dealers tapping into a fairly affluent leisure market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 crinklystarfish - 2012-03-02 7:25 PM I shunned 'camping car' branded tyres many years ago and am firmly of the view that the only thing they excel at is returning lucrative profits for manufacturers and dealers tapping into a fairly affluent leisure market. Yep agree with that ;-)......................And not just tyres 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-03-02 5:46 PM snowie - 2012-03-02 2:37 PM We have a 08 Ducato PVC ............................. cheers alan b IMO, best economical option will be to get one new tyre of same make, type, size, and duty as the existing tyres, and get that fitted in lieu of the worst existing front tyre, then get the fitters to take present rears on front (best on nearside), existing spare plus new tyre on rear, and keep the best remaining front tyre as the spare. Next time around you'll need two new tyres, one to replace the worst front, and one to replace the spare, which go to the rear, with the rears moved to the front again, and the remaining (best) front going as the spare, and so on, ad infinitum! But, that's just me. :-) Phew!!!!! I'll have to print that off and sit quietly for a minute or two digesting it. Along with the rest of the advice I think I'll skip the "specials" I'm surprised that there are no fans of them out there so far. Thanks guys, so much knowledge out there cheers alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 crinklystarfish - 2012-03-02 7:25 PM I shunned 'camping car' branded tyres many years ago and am firmly of the view that the only thing they excel at is returning lucrative profits for manufacturers and dealers tapping into a fairly affluent leisure market. This may be so, but camping tyre are different to their counterpart. Some differences are... 1. Stronger carcase with higher safety reserves. 2. Different rubber compounds to resist getting 'square wheels' from standing fr long periods 3. Longer life rubber compound to resist effects of UV. ( I would debate I am not sure it actually works though as many other tyres also have good UV stability ) 4. Coating inside tyre to reduce permeability to air so they require less inflating form air bleeding through rubber. New tyres fitted by OEMs have this coating but many aftermarket tyres do not. On a large motorhome near its weight linit and requiring high inflation pressures I would suggest Camping tyres are superior. On small lighter vans the benefits are not really applicable except the lower permeability is always a good thing. Unfortunately what may seem to be a small benefit or increase in specifications adds a lot to the price as costs to manufacture are a lot higher as numbers made is smaller. By all means dismiss as not being suitable or required, but do not dismiss because they are just the same as other tyres, they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 "I'm surprised that there are no fans of them out there so far." I am a big fan of camping tyres on large motorhomes, I just do not think you really need them on a PVC. They may last a long time and have to be replaced from age, but better to go for a cheaper tyre and replace sooner so you have younger rubber which is grippier and safer. Rather than go for 4 camping tyres all round, or do as Brian suggested, why not treat it to a set of cheaper tyres all round. It will make a massive difference having all tyres the same and new all round. edit. I mean cheaper as in cheaper than camping tyres but stil premium quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 What we need is a technical bod to explain the difference between a "Camper" tyre and a "Winter" tyre................coz based on our average mileage.......(Our as in motorhome average user)......... then I expect most our tyres will die of old age before they wear out ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have explained a camper tyre. A winter tyre uses compounds which retain pliability at low temeratures. This makes them more grippy and have a higher coeficient of friction on wet, icy or frosted surfaces. There is also a lot more narrow sipes so as to trap and grip frost, snow etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Brambles - 2012-03-02 9:54 PM I have explained a camper tyre. A winter tyre uses compounds which retain pliability at low temeratures. This makes them more grippy and have a higher coeficient of friction on wet, icy or frosted surfaces. There is also a lot more narrow sipes so as to trap and grip frost, snow etc. So given that Campers in general do lower mileage...........a winter tyre would seem to be the way to go ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Depends on where, and when, you go. True winter tyres have tread mixes that are "softer" than summer tyres to give them better grip in cold, wet, or icy conditions. They are a legal requirement in a number of Alpine areas in winter, but must have a minimum 4mm tread to be acceptable. Otherwise fines are possible. However, they are inclined to become rather too soft if used in very hot, dry, conditions, such a southern Europe in summer. This can lead to high rates of wear and less, rather than more, traction, especially if braking hard from high speed, for example on a motorway in an emergency. So for many, two sets are required, one for summer and the other for winter, changed as conditions dictate. Following a bit of digging around, unless getting these tyres specifically for winter use, folk may find an "all season" tyre a better option. These retain some of the characteristics of a summer tyre combined with other characteristics of a winter tyre. Possibly a slightly harder, summer type, tread compound combined with a more aggressive tread pattern incorporating more sipes than the normal, summer, tyre. I've got a couple of Continental VancoFourSeason tyres on our van at present, because I found the Standard Vancos lacked traction on wet, greasy, roads (polished, hard, fine grain, southern European tarmac, after rain, if you must know! :-)), and so far they seem quite an improvement. They are also winter marked (three peaks), so would be "street legal" in, for example Germany, in winter. Michelin Agilis Camping are also winter marked, so winter usable where a winter tyre is a legal requirement. There are a couple of Vredstein tyres in this category, but not sure if both are actually winter marked, - although I have heard that company is not necessarily what it was, following a takeover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Brambles - 2012-03-02 8:44 PM "I'm surprised that there are no fans of them out there so far." I am a big fan of camping tyres on large motorhomes, I just do not think you really need them on a PVC. They may last a long time and have to be replaced from age, but better to go for a cheaper tyre and replace sooner so you have younger rubber which is grippier and safer. Rather than go for 4 camping tyres all round, or do as Brian suggested, why not treat it to a set of cheaper tyres all round. It will make a massive difference having all tyres the same and new all round. edit. I mean cheaper as in cheaper than camping tyres but stil premium quality. Thanks Brambles; I think I'll end up changing the 2 fronts first, for a "decent" commercial tyre. Interested in the "premium quality" comment. I've just replaced two tyres on our car, and was offered about 6 brands that I have never heard of and went for a couple of Goodyears. Maybe I'm being too cautious, and no reason to reject Korean tyres just because I've never heard of them !!?? I'll take some persuading. cheers, alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Alan b, I think you have missed an important issue in Brian's earlier posting. It is accepted for safety reasons new tyres should always go on the back. So what you need to so is move the rears to the front and put new tyres on the rear. This is why I suggested a new set all round, of course depending how much wear is on your current rears. Then you would have the benefit of new rubber and the improved performance and comfort all round. Food for thought..thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I had Kumho branded tyres fitted early last year, they are wearing very well, are quiet running ( given a decent road surface )with a compliant ride quality, I run them at the PVC base vehicle recommended tyre pressures, and they cost me considerably less than "premium" brands. I'm not sure why you would be reluctant to buy Korean, they are factory fitted to many vehicles from new including some m/homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Brambles - 2012-03-03 12:06 AM Alan b, I think you have missed an important issue in Brian's earlier posting. It is accepted for safety reasons new tyres should always go on the back. So what you need to so is move the rears to the front and put new tyres on the rear. At present I have Bridgestone Duravis all round; 4mm on the front and 8-9mm on rears. Spare is a brand new non-premium make. I would probably change @ 3mm. As the advice seems to be stick with commercial/light truck tyres I think my solution is relatively simple, so I'll be replacing the two most worn with same or similar. As for where to put the new ones; well on cars I've usually put new ones on front driven and steering wheels. Not sure of the reasoning for new ones on the rear? thanks alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 With 8 or 9 mm on rear they are hardly worn at all. Don't think its going to make much odds putting new on the front instead in this case.. The idea of putting new on rear is the give the rear better grip to reduce the likely hood of a rear end slide which is harder to control than a front end slide. I know, it goes against logical thinking, grip for breaking etc etc , but it has been proven over the years better tyres should go on the rear of a vehicle for safet reasons. Any reason not to go for Bridgestones again so you have matching characteristics from all for corners! Seems logical to me if you are happy with their performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 snowie - 2012-03-03 4:09 PM Brambles - 2012-03-03 12:06 AM Alan b, I think you have missed an important issue in Brian's earlier posting. It is accepted for safety reasons new tyres should always go on the back. So what you need to so is move the rears to the front and put new tyres on the rear. At present I have Bridgestone Duravis all round; 4mm on the front and 8-9mm on rears. Spare is a brand new non-premium make. I would probably change @ 3mm. As the advice seems to be stick with commercial/light truck tyres I think my solution is relatively simple, so I'll be replacing the two most worn with same or similar. As for where to put the new ones; well on cars I've usually put new ones on front driven and steering wheels. Not sure of the reasoning for new ones on the rear? thanks alan b The reasoning is that, with new tyres on the front and worn tyres on the rear, if grip is lost during hard cornering or during an emergency evasive manoeuvre, it's likely to be more challenging for an average driver to cope with a rear-end skid than a front-end one. If you 'lose' the front-end, then lifting off the accelerator may allow grip to be regained: if you lose the rear-end and lift off, there's a good chance you'll make matters worse. As you've got plenty of tread depth on your rear tyres, putting new tyres on the front should be OK, but it would still be contrary to tyre manufacturers' advice. If you ask your tyre-fitter to advise, he should tell you that fitting your new tyres to the rear wheels is considered best practice nowadays, irrespective of whether a vehicle is FWD or RWD. Obviously this 'rule' is a generalisation - for example, it won't be applicable when a vehicle has different size tyres for the front and rear axles - but it will be appropriate in most cases. It's your choice... (Regarding genuine 'winter' tyres, these should be fitted to all of a vehicle's wheels not just to the driven wheels.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdrive Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I am sure in Advanced Motorist circles it was always stated to put new/better tyres on the rear. This is because in the event of a blowout or sudden deflation which is more likely in the worst tyres, you can steer the front to control the forward motion of a vehicle ie keep it in a lane or steer to the breakdown lane. Whereas in the rear you have got no chance to control the direction so you want the best ones on the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdrive Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 p.s We have 4 Pirelli Citynets - useless off road, but great ride, mpg and stability. We just stay on hard standing pitches! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Hi Overdrive; I'll take Advanced Motorists advice. It's years since I had a rearwheel slide, of any significance at any rate. If I had to choose I'd prefer oversteer to understeer, but under normal circumstances neither. Vehicles are generally so much more stable these days, and lack experience of either is the norm, and in winter particularly, responsible for a lot of the chaos on the roads at the first snowfall. Always thought I preferred rear wheel drive; but not sure about that anymore, I'd be interested to drive a Sprinter conversion for a comparison cheers alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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