nickyroy Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Dear All 18 months ago I bought a Mazda Bongo campervan to see whether my longstanding desire for a camper was truly founded or just one of my many momentary phases. I have loved having the van and have been out at least two weekends each month with longer trips when posible. However, the Bongo is just a bit too smaill (main problem being when the bed is made up there is 'no van left') and the fuel consumption is shocking: I struggle to get 25 mpg. So, time to upgrade, and that is my dilema. I have £32k to invest, and think I have narrowed it down to two vehicle types: Ford Hymer Exsis i 522 2.2TDCI/130ps or similar citroen relay 2200hdi conversion by Devon Conversions Basically I am after the smallest and most economical van that has a fixed bed option that will sleep a 6'3" person. The Devon conversion makes into a large double running lengthways at the end of the van, and there is still room on the passenger and driver swivel seats to sit and read/have food and wine etc without having to undo the bed; however, the bed is very easy to turn back into a sizeable dinnette. The Hymer has the raised fixed bed which is a little shorter than the Devon conversion, but it is just long enough. Of course, it comes with a bigger shower and toilet and with a fixed seating area and large storage space, but it is that much bigger all round, and I am looking for maximum compactness. Re consumption (very important to me as I travel far and wide), I think the Citroen will get 35mpg if driven cautiously; I suspect the Ford will struggle to make 30. So, there is my problem. I would really welcome any comments from anyone who has experience of these vehicles or has found themselves trying to choose from similar types of vehicle. All I know for sure is thatt I do not want anything bigger than these types of vehicle, nor much smaller as I don't think there is anything smaller that can have a fixed bed for someone of my height. Thanks for reading through my waffle! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Do you travel in winter / colder climates, and do you find yourself up narrow singletracks with overhanging vegetation very much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 But they are not similar types, they are very different vehicles. I would think the Hymer (I nearly bought one) more comfortable and much better insulated for year round travels, so would cost less to heat.......But pretty obvious the van would have a bit better consumption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 The Ford. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 i know its a different van but prob same chasis similar weight etc, my tranny CB does 27mpg at 70 and 32mpg at 60 at least thats what the computermebob says and from experience there not far off correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonflyer Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 If you can find one a Hymer Exsis SK would suit you as it is only 5.4m long and drop down bed is supposed to be 6'9" long. We have a drop down bed and find it so convenient. We cannot recommend our M/H to you as you will find it too restrictive height wise, although it drives so well. Joyce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyroy Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hi Starfish Yes, I travel all seasons, all weather conditions. Some narrow tracks, but mostly 'normal' country lanes and tracks. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyroy Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hi Judge I know they are very different types of vehicle; that is the basis of my dilemma. Both seem to be right in many ways, but with significant differences. However, consumption is a key decider. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyroy Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thanks Ips. One thing I am hoping to learn from this posting is actual MPGs of these vehicles. I doubt that I would ever do 60mph when travelling to my destination; 70 is my standard speed, so that puts me under 30 mpg. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyroy Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thanks Joyce; will check that Hymer out. Height is not an issue; I have never really been bothered by head room. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyroy Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 PS Any idea what the MPG would be on the Exis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Jeez.......This fixation on consumption is plain daft IMO. and in over 5 years on this forum I have never seen anyone as obsessed with it as you. Fuel was predicted to be £1.50 by summer and it looks like it will at least be that....£2 by Christmas? So just ask yourself, can I afford to run a camper......If you want 30 + mpg, 60 mph or less is the ONLY way, whatever van you get....*-) . if happy with LHD I can look a round if you want...Like Colin I would go for the Hymer, it probably weighs less then the panel van, will certainly be nicer to live with, and is a narrow coachbuilt anyway.....A good choice! maybe you should buy a Toyoto Prius and a tent! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Have to agree with Eddie here - this fixation about the great god mpg might be in danger of making you buy the wrong van for your specific needs? How many miles a year do you do in it? Work out the cost at say 25 mpg and again at 30 mpg and is the cash spent on fuel difference so great that it is worth the risk of being in an unsuitable van? Look again at depreciation and getting a van at the right price will save you thousands whereas a few mpg either way only risks a hundred or two a year - and even that is only paid for as you use it rather than a lump sum. Think more about absolute suitability, comfort, what extra you will need to buy, and potential depreciation would be my advice and bear in mind that generally speaking the more you spend the newer the van and the newer the van the greater potential for horrific depreciation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Maybe "fixation" is a tad harsh Judge but I agree with you. Unless you're one of these folk with a spreadsheet, recording every single penny spent on running and using a van (and I'm not knocking anyone who does I might add), then I struggle to see the point too. We've no idea where fuel prices are going to be if we're being honest with ourselves. When we bought our present van it cost about £55 to fill it, now it's £80. Had I known that when I bought it, well it wouldn't have made a scrap of difference. However, if it does to you, that's fine, but I'd seriously consider whether spending £30k + is the way forward. Good luck with your decision. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I do keep a record of mpg and where we buy fuel - but I don't really care whether it does 32 or 24 mpg (the two extremes) because the joy of being away and traveling is worth more than worrying about a few quid on diesel. If cost is an issue - better to not go as far in the right van than to go where you want regardless of mileage in the wrong van! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonflyer Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I agree with Tracker. It is essential to get the correct size M/H and layout to suit your needs. If wrong this will irritate the hell out of you much longer than the cost of fuel, which you can choose to spend or not on a monthly basis. Joyce NB: Stunning Exsis SK - advert on eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyroy Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Well, seems that you guys don't share my concern over MPG. I have done around 12 k per year in my current vehicle. The Citroen would possibly be 25% better my other option, and that would save me around £60 per month on my current usage, and up to £100 per month on my planned usage: I intend to do some extremely long trips: possibly 20k miles in the first year. I am very conscious of getting the right layout and am happy with both the conversion on the Citroen and the raised bed with the Ford. What I might try to do is to hire each for a week to try living in them before I buy. Was that the red Exsis Dragonflyer? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Has to be the Hymer, far more usable space big garage good payload no wider than a Fiat/Citroen panel van also has a drop down double bed above the cab. German build quality, fully winterised don't see how you can begin to compare the two in the same sentence. 5mpg difference is not going to cost much 150 quid per 5000 miles when spending over £30k not worrying about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 nickyroy - 2012-03-03 12:43 PM Thanks Ips. One thing I am hoping to learn from this posting is actual MPGs of these vehicles. I doubt that I would ever do 60mph when travelling to my destination; 70 is my standard speed, so that puts me under 30 mpg. Nick But you originally said "Re consumption (very important to me as I travel far and wide), I think the Citroen will get 35mpg if driven cautiously; I suspect the Ford will struggle to make 30." I'm not trying to trip you up, but the two statements are a bit of a conflict. However, they do illustrate why I think you will really struggle to get a reliable statement on MPG. Folk argue like cats in a sack over the MPG of their vehicles, with some saying they get 35MPG out of vehicles others say struggle to get 30 - and the vehicles are the same! Most folk seem to believe what the on-board computers tell them, and I know these do not give reliable figures. Others take the miles covered between fills, and forget that the tank is not filled to exactly the same extent at different filling stations, and that fuel consumption varies with road and weather conditions, and with tyre pressures, even with the same driver. I can tell you that our 130PS Transit based van has consumed 4515.51 litres over 28,952 miles, which I make 28.36MPG. That is mostly outside the UK, with a relatively small proportion of motorway driving. There have been some trips in which I seem to have spent the day in second gear, which does nothing for consumption! On motorways/dual carriageways I tend to cruise at 65MPH where legal. On other roads I generally drive to the limit. I generally buy fuel at supermarkets, and the van just has to drink what is available! :-) So, if I had driven an Exsis in the same way, to the same places, on the same occasions, I would expect it probably to have returned very slightly higher consumption, due to slightly worse aerodynamics. Would the converted Relay do better with me driving, as above? Highly speculative, but I think probably a little better, but only because it is lower overall - so smaller frontal area - and probably slightly aerodynamically "cleaner" than the Hobby. I would expect both to be running at around the same weight of about 3.3 tonnes. The Hobby is the same width as the Citroen, is a little taller and, depending on which Devon conversion you have in mind, probably the same length. So, I too, think you are probably giving too much of a priority to fuel consumption over comfort and practicality. What I would say is that the van bodyshell will be tougher, and will better resist you leaning on the landscaping in narrow lanes, if you have to. Coachbuilt bodyshells are very fragile and mark, and crease, easily. Against that - assuming 6.0 metre overall length - the Relay will be less manoeuvrable due to its longer wheelbase, but for the same reason will spread its load better between the axles to give better traction on soft ground. My final thought is that neither, but especially the Hymer, is an "off road" vehicle. The Hymer has relatively fragile bodywork, will load relatively tail heavy, and has a longish overhang at the rear, so thoughts of exploring unmade tracks will carry greater risks of having to be towed out. The Relay will be better, being a bit tougher and better balanced but, if that is the kind of terrain you want to explore, I don't think either would reliably get you in, and out again. If that is your preference I think you'd be better off looking for a rear wheel drive conversion, which in your price bracket probably means a Transit, or a somewhat older Sprinter, based PVC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 On the other hand if 20,000 miles a year is on the cards the cost of diesel may well be an issue, and if not an issue then certainly a budget consideration!! Certainly depreciation will be and you put 20k miles a year on a new van for two or three years and you really will find out how terrifyingly depressing depreciation really is!! If I were planning that sort of mileage I would certainly think buying used 1 year old with two years of Europe wide manufacturers warranty base on both vehicle and conversion. That said, I do have to wonder how good the conversion warranty would be unless you speak the language of whatever country you are in and can find a sympathetic local repair agent when something fails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyroy Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hi Brian Thanks for this post; really thorough and useful information. You have raised a number of points that I have been considering, and your comments tally with my suspicions. A big help. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyroy Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hi Tracker Yes, I plan to go far and wide and my range is going to be limited by money, so diesel cost is a factor. I am not too concerned about depreciation really as I have 'come into' the money to buy the vehicle and see it as a one off purchase that I do not need to recoup my costs on at a later date. Re warranty, one thing that attracts me by the Devon conversion is that the vehicle comes with a one year warranty on the van and 3 years on the conversion. I will be doing 6 months of UK based travel before heading off abroad so will get plenty of chance to fault spot before entering unknown zones! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 For the amount of time you are going to be spending in it, and because you will be using it year round, it would probably be better to go with the extra room, life-support capacities and insulation that the coachbuilt will bring. The points Brian makes about fragility are worth bearing in mind though, which is why I asked about singletracks. If you do much bush-bashing you will make the Hymer look pretty tatty, pretty quickly. A worthwhile saving in consumption on both would be earned by a sympathetic right foot. The higher the speed, the more it's likely that the gap between them would widen given the aerodynamics involved. At a potter, there'd probably be very little difference in MPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Notice the different style of answer from myself and Brian Kirby! (Sorry Brian) C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 If fuel consumption is a very real issue for the OP, perhaps he would be best to think about where we could well be in 12 months time, it's £1.49 a litre where I live right now and good old George has ruled out a freeze on fuel duty, add in all the doom and gloom of oil producing countries and supply problems only adds to the problem. Looking across the water and it's a similar story on prices. Perhaps Judgemental is right, a Toyota and a tent, or just accept that there is now no way short of giving up on travel, of avoiding increasing fuel costs, they are only going one way IMO. Another option would be buy a good second hand van at say 24k, then you'll have 10k to spend on fuel, that'll get you a fair distance, :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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