Breathalyzers

[Hopesy]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-03-28 10:56 AM

 

Brambles - 2012-03-28 10:26 AM

 

To me, buyng just now gets it done, one less thing to worry about and think about doing when visiting France. Done and dusted and one less thing on the list of Must Do. At £4.99 from Halfords ( sorry to swear) less 19p cashback I am not going to worry about the cost or could have saved a few quid buying in France.

 

Personally, I wouldn't argue over your Wise Virgin philosophy, but it's worth highlighting that the First Commandment in the Sacred Book of Motorcaravanning is "After obtaining your motorhome it is heretical to spend any further money unless it is absolutely unavoidable."

 

£4.99 but that two bottles of red!!! B-)

[AlcoSense]

There has been some confusion surrounding the new French laws. The law takes effect in July but the police have been given discretion not to impose any fines until 1st November - from which time fines will be immediate and compulsory. However, we are hearing reports that the police are already stopping some motorists and warning them that they will soon need to carry breathalysers.

 

The breathalyser needs to have the approval of the French standards agency and carry the NF kite mark. AlcoSense produces the AlcoSense Singles NF which has the NF approval. For more information visit http://www.alcosense.co.uk/alcosense-singles.html

 

Very few breathalysers have NF approval and owing to the speed with which the law was introduced, plus the huge demand, there has been some shortages and distribution problems for French manufacturers. The AlcoSense Singles NF are manufactured by Redline Products and AlcoSense is the exclusive UK and Irish distributor for Redline. The AlcoSense Singles NF is fully NF certified under Redline’s certification. Distribution is not a problem for AlcoSense and our NF breathalysers are available nationwide from branches of Halfords or direct from AlcoSense online. They will also be available on-board ferries. A twin pack costs £4.99.

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Just bought a pack of 3.........but they must be faulty as the one I tried just turned into a balloon?..........nice strawberry flavour though :D :D :D

[BGD]

AlcoSense - 2012-05-04 1:14 PM

 

There has been some confusion surrounding the new French laws. The law takes effect in July but the police have been given discretion not to impose any fines until 1st November - from which time fines will be immediate and compulsory. However, we are hearing reports that the police are already stopping some motorists and warning them that they will soon need to carry breathalysers.

 

The breathalyser needs to have the approval of the French standards agency and carry the NF kite mark. AlcoSense produces the AlcoSense Singles NF which has the NF approval. For more information visit http://www.alcosense.co.uk/alcosense-singles.html

 

Very few breathalysers have NF approval and owing to the speed with which the law was introduced, plus the huge demand, there has been some shortages and distribution problems for French manufacturers. The AlcoSense Singles NF are manufactured by Redline Products and AlcoSense is the exclusive UK and Irish distributor for Redline. The AlcoSense Singles NF is fully NF certified under Redline’s certification. Distribution is not a problem for AlcoSense and our NF breathalysers are available nationwide from branches of Halfords or direct from AlcoSense online. They will also be available on-board ferries. A twin pack costs £4.99.

 

Sorry, but I regard that as an utter rip-off price.

They are now already and readily available, FAR cheaper than that, in supermarkets all over France.

I would strongly urge people to buy elsewhere.

[kelly58]

BGD - 2012-05-04 1:40 PM

AlcoSense - 2012-05-04 1:14 PMThere has been some confusion surrounding the new French laws. The law takes effect in July but the police have been given discretion not to impose any fines until 1st November - from which time fines will be immediate and compulsory. However, we are hearing reports that the police are already stopping some motorists and warning them that they will soon need to carry breathalysers. The breathalyser needs to have the approval of the French standards agency and carry the NF kite mark. AlcoSense produces the AlcoSense Singles NF which has the NF approval. For more information visit http://www.alcosense.co.uk/alcosense-singles.htmlVery few breathalysers have NF approval and owing to the speed with which the law was introduced, plus the huge demand, there has been some shortages and distribution problems for French manufacturers. The AlcoSense Singles NF are manufactured by Redline Products and AlcoSense is the exclusive UK and Irish distributor for Redline. The AlcoSense Singles NF is fully NF certified under Redline’s certification. Distribution is not a problem for AlcoSense and our NF breathalysers are available nationwide from branches of Halfords or direct from AlcoSense online. They will also be available on-board ferries. A twin pack costs £4.99.

Sorry, but I regard that as an utter rip-off price.They are now already and readily available, FAR cheaper than that, in supermarkets all over France.I would strongly urge people to buy elsewhere.

Carrefour France 1 x pack of 2 = 2.20e 2014 use by date.

[Retread24800]

Talk about jumping on the Band wagon!!!!!!

Redline (the supplier to the poster) are available (retail) in France from €15 for a 10 pack, + delivery @ €4 =€1.9 Delivered against over six squid, Del boy is alive.

Should be cheaper to buy en route and even the ferry terminal shops will be cheaper than that blatant rip off.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

While it’s true that NF-marked ‘disposable’ breathalysers can be purchased for €1 or €2 in French retail outlets, this is irrelevant for people in the UK wishing to obtain an NF-marked breathalyser BEFORE they head off for France. And, even in France, the asking-price may vary radically as shown here:

 

http://www.ethylotest-certifie.com/ethylotest-jetable/10-10-ethylotest-individuel-certifie-nf.html

 

At the moment the only NF-marked disposable breathalyser readily available in the UK seems to be the Redline product being distributed by AlcoSense. English-language packaging will have needed to be produced and (for all I know) the VAT-rate on French-marketed and UK-marketed breathalysers may be different. It’s currently a monopoly market in the UK and the price undoubtedly reflects this, but, just because an AlcoSense breathalyser 2-pack costs £4.99 from Halfords and a 2-pack from Carrefour costs €2.20, does not automatically make the AlcoSense product a “rip off”.

 

There’s absolutely no guarantee that breathalysers that will be offered at UK ferry terminals or on ferries will be cheaper than at Halfords - in fact, as travellers will be a captive audience at that point, there’s every likelihood that the asking-price will be just as high.

 

If it’s currently possible to purchase a single NF-marked disposable breathalyser (or a twin pack) from within the UK at anywhere near French supermarket prices, I’d be interested to know how.

 

I’m assuming that any forum-member purchasing NF-marked disposable breathalysers will be doing so purely to comply with French regulations, and will never use them to test their alcohol level.

 

If that’s not the case, then it might be worth being aware of the findings of a January 2008 French test that included Contralco and Redline NF-marked disposable breathalysers. This test assessed breathalysers for their accuracy of measurement, ease of use, value-for-money and overall. Marks for each category were out of 20.

 

The marks for the Contralco breathalyser were

 

Accuracy of measurement - 16.3/20

Ease of use - 18.3/20

Value for money – 20/20

Overall - 17.4/20.

 

The marks for the Redline "Alcoroute" breathalyser were

 

Accuracy of measurement - 0/20 (That’s right – zero out of 20)

Ease of use - 14.3/20

Value for money – 9/20

Overall – 4.7/20

 

http://www.webcarcenter.com/dossier/conseils_pratiques/achat_vente/ethylotest/ethylotest.php

 

It’s perfectly possible that, 4 years on, the test results are no longer valid. However, if the results were still valid, the Contralco breathalyser would be the one to buy and the Redline product the one to avoid.

[bolero boy]

Just so I can understand the 'why' in all this officialdom, you start with 2 devices, you have a drink, you use one to see if you're sober enough to drive, you are so off you go.

You now have one unused and one used one (if you haven'y thrown the used one in the bin).

Along comes plod - are you

a) in breach of regs as you have used one of your required two units?

b) a sensible chap for checking that you are fit to drive before setting off?

If a) and you drink regularly then you need a constant supply of units to satisfy the demands of

i) checking yourself regularly

ii) satisfying plod that you have sufficient to check yourself the next time you drink........................

Could there be a market for a re-usable device?

[Retread24800]

bolero boy - 2012-05-05 10:58 AMJust so I can understand the 'why' in all this officialdom, you start with 2 devices, you have a drink, you use one to see if you're sober enough to drive, you are so off you go.You now have one unused and one used one (if you haven'y thrown the used one in the bin).Along comes plod - are you a) in breach of regs as you have used one of your required two units?b) a sensible chap for checking that you are fit to drive before setting off?If a) and you drink regularly then you need a constant supply of units to satisfy the demands ofi) checking yourself regularlyii) satisfying plod that you have sufficient to check yourself the next time you drink........................ Could there be a market for a re-usable device?

You buy a twin pack so that you can use one and remain legal by having one in the glove box, the requirement is to have one unused in the vehicle.

If you are a regular drinker you might like to consider purchasing a reusable electronic device @ €899 which needs recalibration every two years costing €45 a time.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

bolero boy - 2012-05-05 9:58 AM

 

...Could there be a market for a re-usable device?

 

There are plenty of NF-marked electronic 're-usable' breathalysers - a list of 10 is given here:

 

http://www.ethylotest-obligatoire.org/actu/liste-ethylotest-electronique-nf/

 

However, the wording of the French decree makes no mention of this type of device, so it would appear that - even if you owned one and carried it in your vehicle - to comply with the French law you'd also need to carry a disposable breathalyser.

[Retread24800]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-05-05 8:01 PM

bolero boy - 2012-05-05 9:58 AM...Could there be a market for a re-usable device?

There are plenty of NF-marked electronic 're-usable' breathalysers - a list of 10 is given here:http://www.ethylotest-obligatoire.org/actu/liste-ethylotest-electronique-nf/However, the wording of the French decree makes no mention of this type of device, so it would appear that - even if you owned one and carried it in your vehicle - to comply with the French law you'd also need to carry a disposable breathalyser.

 

Sorry Derek, but the decree does not state the type of breath analyser, only that it shall be to NF, ready for use, within its 'use before date,

Therefore any NF Tester, Chemical or electronic can be carried. it would be perverse if electronic breath analysers were ruled out when you take into consideration the fitting of Anti start equipment to PSV's

 

le décret oblige tout conducteur d’un véhicule à posséder un éthylotest non usagé, disponible immédiatement. L’éthylotest doit satisfaire aux conditions de validité, notamment sa date de péremption, prévues par le fabricant. Le conducteur d’un véhicule équipé par un professionnel agréé ou par construction d’un dispositif d’antidémarrage par éthylotest électronique ainsi que le conducteur d’un autocar équipé d’un tel dispositif est réputé en règle.

 

 

[Basil]

So if you use an 'electronic' breathaliser, do you still have to have two? :-S :-S B-)

 

Bas

[Retread24800]

No but you should have a pack of single use mouth pieces.

[bolero boy]

Despite the actual terms of the law, the usefulness of the new system depends on wether a driver deems himself near enough to the limit to consider a test.Just having the means to test makes no difference to the driver who always thinks they are 'able' to drive.

It's like the rule about replacement bulbs when the majority of users dont know how to change one!

[Derek Uzzell]

Retread24800 - 2012-05-05 10:01 PM

Derek Uzzell - 2012-05-05 8:01 PM

bolero boy - 2012-05-05 9:58 AM...Could there be a market for a re-usable device?

There are plenty of NF-marked electronic 're-usable' breathalysers - a list of 10 is given here:http://www.ethylotest-obligatoire.org/actu/liste-ethylotest-electronique-nf/However, the wording of the French decree makes no mention of this type of device, so it would appear that - even if you owned one and carried it in your vehicle - to comply with the French law you'd also need to carry a disposable breathalyser.

 

Sorry Derek, but the decree does not state the type of breath analyser, only that it shall be to NF, ready for use, within its 'use before date,

Therefore any NF Tester, Chemical or electronic can be carried. it would be perverse if electronic breath analysers were ruled out when you take into consideration the fitting of Anti start equipment to PSV's

 

le décret oblige tout conducteur d’un véhicule à posséder un éthylotest non usagé, disponible immédiatement. L’éthylotest doit satisfaire aux conditions de validité, notamment sa date de péremption, prévues par le fabricant. Le conducteur d’un véhicule équipé par un professionnel agréé ou par construction d’un dispositif d’antidémarrage par éthylotest électronique ainsi que le conducteur d’un autocar équipé d’un tel dispositif est réputé en règle.

 

I hear what you say, but there is a potential conflict (in my view) between the Decree's reference to "un éthylotest non usagé" and an electronic breathalyser, unless the latter is perhaps still hermetically sealed in its original packaging. Once the device has been unpacked, how is one to know whether or not it is still "non usagé"? Similarly, if the device has been utilised for testing someone's alcohol level, even if the device's mouthpiece has been replaced afterwards, or replacement unused mouthpieces are available to hand, the electronic device itself will no longer be "non usagé".OK, this is semantic quibbling. The Decree undoubtedly envisages a motorist obtaining a cheap disposable breathalyser for legal compliance, but it's evident from French online comments/advice that an electronic breathalyser that can meet the Decree's strictures would be acceptable.

[Derek Uzzell]

bolero boy - 2012-05-06 2:36 PM

 

Despite the actual terms of the law, the usefulness of the new system depends on wether a driver deems himself near enough to the limit to consider a test.Just having the means to test makes no difference to the driver who always thinks they are 'able' to drive.

It's like the rule about replacement bulbs when the majority of users dont know how to change one!

 

The effect of the French breathalyser law on French traffic-accident statistics remains to be seen. The law itself demands only that a motorist carries a breathalyser not that he/she uses it.

 

There is no French 'rule' or law regarding motorists carrying replacement light bulbs for their vehicles (which is what I assume you are referring to). It's just a strong recommendation.

[bolero boy]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-05-06 3:39 PM

 

There is no French 'rule' or law regarding motorists carrying replacement light bulbs for their vehicles (which is what I assume you are referring to). It's just a strong recommendation.

Derek, I didnt know this. I am obviously wrong but I thought this was included in the long list of 'stuff' I thought we had to carry when 'sur-le-continent' - like warning triangle etc. I must have misread all thos helpful MMM articles for first time EU travellers. Perhaps the items on the list were strong recommendations.

A mixture of recommendations and legal requirements would no doubt confuse - as it has!

Thanks,

[Retread24800]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-05-06 4:30 PM

 I hear what you say, but there is a potential conflict (in my view) between the Decree's reference to "un éthylotest non usagé" and an electronic breathalyser, unless the latter is perhaps still hermetically sealed in its original packaging. Once the device has been unpacked, how is one to know whether or not it is still "non usagé"? Similarly, if the device has been utilised for testing someone's alcohol level, even if the device's mouthpiece has been replaced afterwards, or replacement unused mouthpieces are available to hand, the electronic device itself will no longer be "non usagé".OK, this is semantic quibbling. The Decree undoubtedly envisages a motorist obtaining a cheap disposable breathalyser for legal compliance, but it's evident from French online comments/advice that an electronic breathalyser that can meet the Decree's strictures would be acceptable.

 

User(vt) doesn't mean simply 'to use' alternate senses can be to wear out or to use up therefore a translation could be 'not used up' or not worn out and thus in this context the use of  reusable ie electronic Breathalyser meets the terms of the decree and a used chemical breathalyser does not.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Retread24800 - 2012-05-06 4:28 PM

Derek Uzzell - 2012-05-06 4:30 PM

 I hear what you say, but there is a potential conflict (in my view) between the Decree's reference to "un éthylotest non usagé" and an electronic breathalyser, unless the latter is perhaps still hermetically sealed in its original packaging. Once the device has been unpacked, how is one to know whether or not it is still "non usagé"? Similarly, if the device has been utilised for testing someone's alcohol level, even if the device's mouthpiece has been replaced afterwards, or replacement unused mouthpieces are available to hand, the electronic device itself will no longer be "non usagé".OK, this is semantic quibbling. The Decree undoubtedly envisages a motorist obtaining a cheap disposable breathalyser for legal compliance, but it's evident from French online comments/advice that an electronic breathalyser that can meet the Decree's strictures would be acceptable.

 

User(vt) doesn't mean simply 'to use' alternate senses can be to wear out or to use up therefore a translation could be 'not used up' or not worn out and thus in this context the use of  reusable ie electronic Breathalyser meets the terms of the decree and a used chemical breathalyser does not.

"Usagé" (adjective) translates to "used", "worn", "secondhand" (car, etc.) in English, while, in the French vernacular, "non usagé" is normally employed to mean "new". It would be perverse to suggest that the use of the term "non usagé" in the French decree did not mean "new" or "unused". A basic tenet of the French carry-a-breathalyser campaign is that, for individual motorists, compliance will only involve a minimal cost (ie. the €1 or €2 euros price of a disposable breathalyser with a 2-year lifespan). French motorists will be buying disposable breathalysers and the French police will anticipate that this type of device will be presented by motorists during a roadside check. And, when the disposable breathalyser is presented, the French police will wish to assure themselves that it complies with the Decree by being in a "non usagé" state - that is, in new, unused condition. On the basis of sauce bonne pour l'oie, est bonne pour le jars, an electronic breathalyser should also be in new, unused condition.

[Derek Uzzell]

bolero boy - 2012-05-06 4:16 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-05-06 3:39 PM

 

There is no French 'rule' or law regarding motorists carrying replacement light bulbs for their vehicles (which is what I assume you are referring to). It's just a strong recommendation.

Derek, I didnt know this. I am obviously wrong but I thought this was included in the long list of 'stuff' I thought we had to carry when 'sur-le-continent' - like warning triangle etc. I must have misread all thos helpful MMM articles for first time EU travellers. Perhaps the items on the list were strong recommendations.

A mixture of recommendations and legal requirements would no doubt confuse - as it has!

Thanks,

 

The Caravan Club's current advice about required equipment for EU travel is contained on the following two links:

 

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/planning-your-holiday/overseas-holiday-planning/travel-essentials/compulsory-requirements/compulsory-equipment-requirements/

 

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/7499724/compulsory_equipment_requirements.pdf

 

As you'll be aware, such advice does change - for example regarding the latest French laws relating to equipments providing warnings of speed-camera locations, and carriage of breathalysers.

 

Back in 2007 (when the CC was advising that carrying spare bulbs was a French legal requirement) Brian Kirby summarised the situation here:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=6968&posts=18

 

My understanding nowadays is that, even if a motorist driving in France has a set of spare bulbs, plus the necessary tools and knowledge to fit them, that won't automatically protect him/her from being fined for a failed bulb lighting infringement. However, what it should avoid is the French police preventing the motorist continuing on his/her journey until the lighting fault has been rectified.

 

As you rightly said earlier, many motorists will not know how to change a vehicle bulb even if the bulb and suitable tools are available. It's also true that, with plenty of modern vehicles, even if you have the bulb, tools and knowledge, bulb-changing may take a long time and require serious dismantling to accomplish the task. And, with the gradual move to HID or LED headlights, if that type of headlamp develops a fault a £6 spare-bulb kit from Aldi will be no help whatsoever.

 

My view is that, if your vehicle has bulbs that can be changed, it makes sense to carry suitable spare bulbs even if you may feel unable to change them yourself. That way, if one were stopped by the French police for a lighting infringement, you'd be able to demonstrate a willingness to comply with the law and, if you found it necessary to obtain professional assistance (eg. a breakdown service) to replace the failed bulb, you'd have the correct part readily to hand.

 

 

 

[Tony Jones]

Sorry, just realised I never posted the end of the story on p.2.

The second unit did indeed arrive as promised, so "well done" to the supplier there, but I still suspect his new price is a blatant attempt to exploit the market - as are some of the other "offers."

But why not (I hear Bruce & Eddie say), isn't that what the free capitalist society is all about?

[Derek Uzzell]

Regarding chemical or electronic breathalysers and the French law, I note that an FAQ webpage explains the requirements in more detail here:

 

http://www.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/article.php3?id_article=4076

 

Either type of breathalyser is legally acceptable. An electronic breathalyser must conform to the NF X 20 704 standard, be 'in date' and immediately to hand in the vehicle (just like the chemical version), and (presumably when appropriate) have had an annual calibration test. No advice is given regarding a need to carry spare disposable mouth-pieces, though it would make good sense to do so.

[Retread24800]

Glad I read that, I was just about to pop round to my copain Gaston and tell him his guidance re the translation was in error :-). Just have to join in the celebrations about the new President instead.

[BGD]

Tony Jones - 2012-05-07 11:30 AM

 

Sorry, just realised I never posted the end of the story on p.2.

The second unit did indeed arrive as promised, so "well done" to the supplier there, but I still suspect his new price is a blatant attempt to exploit the market - as are some of the other "offers."

But why not (I hear Bruce & Eddie say), isn't that what the free capitalist society is all about?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed Tony, it is.

 

The old economics of supply and demand epitomised here I reckon.

 

New market.

First couple of players trying to get what they can before it opens up with lost of suppliers.

 

A supplier will normally price his goods at the very top end of where he thinks the demand curve is....unless of course he is after market share, as a longer game, instead of immediate profit maximisation.

He/they are in the game to max their return on capital......they are risking their money by being in the selling game, so they are looking for a reward for doing that......

 

Some consumers will take the bait. Others will see this ploy as a "rip-off".

 

But the playing field is normally levelled, quickly, by others also entering, offering to supply their "me too" products when they see a good chance of good returns, thus consumers have choices, and generally go for perceived cheapest, thus forcing prices downwards over time as the market for that good/service matures.

 

It is, I suggest, via such events, profit driven, that pensions scheme pots of money grow; that jobs are created, that wealth is generated (which pays for all public sector and social spending in a society), and that spurs technological advance, research & development, advances in human knowledge et al.

 

Alternatives have recently been attempted (Communism, extreme nationalism) but there doesn't seem to be any other system that is self-sustaining.

Time after time after time it is proven that the State is utterly hopeless at actually running anything commercial effectively; and the Private sector risk-takers, entrepreneurs, and high-risk-high-return adventurers are the ones who create the wealth that in turn via taxes provides all the rest of us jobs, benefits, NHS, pensions, schools etc etc.

 

 

 

 

[Guest peter]

Mel B - 2012-03-21 10:08 PM

 

malc d - 2012-03-21 9:37 PM

 

The new law doesn't particularly bother me but I do wonder what the thinking is behind it - and I really can't see the point of making it compulsory for tee-totallers to carry them.

 

When and why would they ever need to use them ?

 

:-|

 

... but how could you prove you were tea-total? I'm tea-total but apart from the massive amount of tea-bags I take on holiday with me, I would be hard pushed to prove it! :D

You can always spot the tee totallers Mel. They're always the miserable buggers. :D