Guest peter Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Mel B - 2012-03-23 8:49 PM If you run out of fuel with a diesel engine don't you have to have it primed etc? I don't think you can't just put more fuel in can you? We carry a 5L can of diesel, and we have had to use it on 2 occasions - can't remember the first, but the second one was when the fuel stations were quite a distance apart and even though we had around half a tank when we arrived at the one we were planning on filling up at, it had been closed due to a hazard! Having the can meant we were okay and could continue without wory until the next one, which was quite some distance away. :-SA modern diesel should be self priming especially the later ones with an electric fuel pump and direct injection. Just fill it up and crank it until it starts. There is the proviso that your fuel filter is not clogged up with all the crud from the bottom of the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 In answer to Francis' original question, I'm not keen on the idea of carrying diesel in any kind of reserve container. Nasty, smelly, stuff! So, as others have said, I fill when about 50% full (or empty, depending on your temperament! :-)). This has various advantages, as stated above, but there are one or two more. It smooths out the price differences as you travel, and if you do get some less than desirable fuel (hasn't happened yet, so far as I know), that is diluted by what is already in the tank rather than getting a whole tankful of the stuff, it is a great help on Sundays in locations where the filling stations shut, and also in Italy where the filling stations, even on autostradae, shut from about 13:00 mid day to about 16:00 - and on Sundays in many instances. Then, if you do forget/miscalculate, you've half a tank in reserve, rather than just a few litres. It's worked so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-03-23 10:34 PM So, as others have said, I fill when about 50% full (or empty, depending on your temperament! :-)). .....I'm not going to beat myself up on which one I prefer.........I find I'm ambivalent on this one, as well. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 This is the second thread started by FG............ 8-)............ Welcome to the asylum Francis :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The fuel pick up in most vehicles is right on the floor of the tank so that vehicle motion tends to stop the accumulation of crud, the pump sucks it up and it should be caught by the regularly changed filter. I have seen a u tube video of a big GMC two stroke diesel being started for the first time in 20 years with the same fuel it was running on when last used. It looked to be somewhere hot and dry so water condensation in the fuel was probably was not an issue. I do not think that for practical purposes degradation of diesel fuel occurs. It should keep for years in a sealed container. Petrol is different in that the lighter elements readily evaporate (just what is required for for cold starts) and this is a problem in engines that are in seasonal use. Modern diesel has additives that mask the worst of the smell. The stuff I was working on in the 60s used to really stink. The hands of one mechanic I worked would break out with dermatitis if he caught so much as whiff of the stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsbc Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 As a pom living in New Zealand I am shocked by the lack of nouse with regard to this thread I have been driving a mercedes ml 270 for over a year with a dicky fuel guage and carry no extra fuel haven't run out yet. To clarify some of your bleets, spare diesel is after all spare diesel, its oil if you run out it will still burn in your motor so long as you can get it into the motor.Old style diesels with injector pumps will need to be bled if you run completely out ,although I used to have a transit which was self bleeding but that is only as good as your battery, as it can take a bit of cranking to do it. If you run out of diesel and drag the dregs fron the tank its good to know its a diesel and should have a water and particulate filter which YOU should have changed at regular service intervals.Most common rail diesels should be able to be refilled similar to petrol vehicles and should crank up and fire up without difficulty once refilled it is the nature of common rail systems. A couple of observations some one said diesel has a shelf life like petrol and another observation was diesel is quite persisten dosn't evaporate like petrol, this is the reason petrol has a shelf life the higher fractions evaporate and leave the less volatile fractions behind which are harder to ignite in petrol engines not so with diesel. As for summer and winter diesel GET A LIFE ! buy winter diesel if you are worried if you have problems with waxing at low temps I guess you will all be at home in front of the fire or at home with the central heating on.To sum up get to know your vehicle watch the odo fill to the brim at fills then you will know how far you can push it dont push to far with injection pump engines and if in doubt carry some extra in a can. pps have just bought my third MH cant wait to use it ,Swift Kontiki just have to pick it up fom the mother land and take it back home won't be running out of diesel either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 jsbc - 2012-03-24 8:48 AM As a pom living in New Zealand I am shocked by the lack of nouse with regard to this thread I have been driving a mercedes ml 270 for over a year with a dicky fuel guage and carry no extra fuel haven't run out yet. To clarify some of your bleets, spare diesel is after all spare diesel, its oil if you run out it will still burn in your motor so long as you can get it into the motor.Old style diesels with injector pumps will need to be bled if you run completely out ,although I used to have a transit which was self bleeding but that is only as good as your battery, as it can take a bit of cranking to do it. If you run out of diesel and drag the dregs fron the tank its good to know its a diesel and should have a water and particulate filter which YOU should have changed at regular service intervals.Most common rail diesels should be able to be refilled similar to petrol vehicles and should crank up and fire up without difficulty once refilled it is the nature of common rail systems. A couple of observations some one said diesel has a shelf life like petrol and another observation was diesel is quite persisten dosn't evaporate like petrol, this is the reason petrol has a shelf life the higher fractions evaporate and leave the less volatile fractions behind which are harder to ignite in petrol engines not so with diesel. As for summer and winter diesel GET A LIFE ! buy winter diesel if you are worried if you have problems with waxing at low temps I guess you will all be at home in front of the fire or at home with the central heating on.To sum up get to know your vehicle watch the odo fill to the brim at fills then you will know how far you can push it dont push to far with injection pump engines and if in doubt carry some extra in a can. pps have just bought my third MH cant wait to use it ,Swift Kontiki just have to pick it up fom the mother land and take it back home won't be running out of diesel either ....as a Pom living in Pomland, I'm surprised by your lack of nous about forum manners and etiquette (odd really, because I've always found native Kiwis very friendly). ;-) If you research the oil company data on diesel shelf-life, you will find that, though opinion is divided on exactly why (or more correctly, which of the various potential issues is of greater concern) they generally subscribe to the fact that it does have a shelf-life, for reasons far different to the volatility of petrol (for example, biological action, crystallization, and water absorption). So, whilst a filter might protect against some of this, I wouldn't choose to keep diesel stored for a long time if I didn't have to. (particularly for use in a modern, high-pressure common-rail vehicle). As for GET A LIFE, I have one, thank you, and the winters are generally spent using my 'van (as is the OP's). I have used it in temperatures well below -10C. AFAIK, in the UK "summer" diesel is formulated for use only down to -7C (and even "winter" only to -15C). I certainly wouldn't advise the OP to fill up with stored summer diesel in the depths of winter, particularly in Europe, where temperatures can be a lot colder, and winter diesel is of a more robust formula (though, as I implied, the reverse might be OK). Enjoy your Kontiki ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Too many sheep, methinks! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-03-24 5:14 PM Too many sheep, methinks! :-D .....I never touched them, Officer! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Regarding the suggestion that 'modern' diesel-engined vehicles can easily be restarted if they are allowed to run out of fuel, I suggest that motorhome owners refer to their vehicle handbooks for advice about this. My 2005 Transit Owner's Guide advises that running out of diesel fuel "will lead to a difficult restarting procedure which requires roadside assistance by your dealer. Also, engine damage may result....After the vehicle has run out of fuel the fuel system must be re-primed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 As i said in my previous posting, for practical purposes diesel fuel in a sealed container will have a very long life and even if crystalisation occurs a good swish round should disolve them. In any case it would be prudent to use the spare tankful say one a year and start again the fresh fuel. My gut feeling is that biological problems in diesel occur most often in the marine leisure environment where large tanks spend long periods part filled breathing moist air. In the dim and distant past runing out of diesel was best avoided as getting air out of the injection system could be a bleeding pain in the butt, Around 25 years ago many sytems became self bleeding and provided the battery was good was a reasonably easy process. Certainly my 1993 VW T4 self bled. The last info I had was about eight years ago as common rail systems were introduced was that the ultra high injection pressures demanded extremely small tolerances particularly in the injectors and that running even for a matter of seconds without the lubrication the fuel provided ruined the injector. Best keep the eye on the fuel gauge then. I ran ran motorbikes with no gauge simply by always brimming the tank and zeroing the mileometer trip. It would do about 150miles in safety. When touring in a fresh area I always start looking for fuel when there is still 150 miles in the tank. As I understand refineries alter diesel fuel seasonally to minimise wax formation in very low temperatures. A fuel tank of UK fuel might not be the best way to start a skiing holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Whatever the various feelings are about storage of Diesel Fuel, the base manufacturer for the OP's van is unequivocal in their advice. The attached is an excerpt from the manual for my 2010 vehicle, but also appears in the current Transit manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 George Collings - 2012-03-26 11:05 PM ...The last info I had was about eight years ago as common rail systems were introduced was that the ultra high injection pressures demanded extremely small tolerances particularly in the injectors and that running even for a matter of seconds without the lubrication the fuel provided ruined the injector... I vaguely recall it being claimed that running out of diesel-fuel could be particularly destructive for common-rail Mecedes Sprinters. A couple of links that may encourage people to err on the side of caution: http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19586 http://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/333605-help-with-merc-sprinter.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 In view of the poster in Lincoln Green's contribution re the use of bio diesel I revise my advice to changing the contents of the spare can of diesel downwards to every three months. Lets hope the tankers drivers dispute is resolved before the Peterborough show as I do not have the range for a return trip. from Devon. We got caught with a low tank in the last strike when at a York show but by sheer good fortune found a garage that had just taken a delivery. Driving home, the UK was a ghost country with no traffic moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsbc Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 FAR FAR TOO MANY SHEEP, FAR MORE THAN EVER WERE IN NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 A near neighbour of mine works at a out of town national bank computer and clearing house it is at the edge of a rural industrial complex there is no name on the units they have 2 huge generators each with 2000 gallon tanks they used to change the diesel every 5 years and staff could buy the old diesel at 50p per gallon limited to 2 x 5 gallon metal jerry cans, enterprising staff bought jerry cans for non car owners to buy extra cans for them. Last year they upped the change to 10 years, the tanks seem to be checked and dipped often and the generators run for 1 hour or so. This fuel must be ok stored for so long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 alf - 2012-03-31 3:53 PM A near neighbour of mine works at a out of town national bank computer and clearing house it is at the edge of a rural industrial complex there is no name on the units they have 2 huge generators each with 2000 gallon tanks they used to change the diesel every 5 years and staff could buy the old diesel at 50p per gallon limited to 2 x 5 gallon metal jerry cans, enterprising staff bought jerry cans for non car owners to buy extra cans for them. Last year they upped the change to 10 years, the tanks seem to be checked and dipped often and the generators run for 1 hour or so. This fuel must be ok stored for so long Well this is very interesting. From an earlier suggestion of every two months to an actuality of every 10 years. Well I should be ok with my annual change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I would think that generators would be manufactured to run on any diesel type fuel availiable. If only because they would be used in emergency situations where fuel may not be as higher grade as required by modern vehicles. Just a thought ! Another thought (Peaking here ;-) Do CAKs manufacture / install secondary tanks so that you can just fill it, use it, and not worry about smells, spillage, and a degree of B@@erance when topping up with a jerry can. Rgds Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 tonyishuk - 2012-04-01 3:53 AM I would think that generators would be manufactured to run on any diesel type fuel availiable. If only because they would be used in emergency situations where fuel may not be as higher grade as required by modern vehicles. Just a thought ! Another thought (Peaking here ;-) Do CAKs manufacture / install secondary tanks so that you can just fill it, use it, and not worry about smells, spillage, and a degree of B@@erance when topping up with a jerry can. Rgds Rgds I don't think CAK involve themselves with fuel tanks, but it would be easy enough to obtain a secondary tank should one so wish. For example http://www.marinescene.co.uk/category/220/fuel-tanks/ http://www.tek-tanks.com/ I recall that the idea of increasing a motorhome's fuel capacity by originally specifying a larger fuel tank, or replacing the original tank with a bigger one, was discussed here years ago. I continue to ask myself why, if one owns a motorcaravan that has a range of an easy 400 miles on a single tank of fuel (which will be the case with most modernish diesel-fuelled motorhomes) there should be need to carry spare fuel on a just-in-case basis. I can appreciate the need to carry extra fuel if it's apparent at the start of the trip that there's a real likelihood that it will be required, but I can't see why you'd want to carry, say,10 litres of 'emergency' diesel always on board if you are just trolling around Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Over the years I have disciplined myself to always fill up when I get to half a tank, I can't be doing with these people who only put a fiver or a tenners worth in at any one time. To me, the time and effort in running to the petrol station is "down time" and is a pain in the butt. In my garden business I have certain jobs that I class as "Diesel jobs" the money from these jobs go into a cash box which I use to fill up my work van or camper, I dont use my debit card where the money comes out of my bank account, I look upon it as if I have done half hours work and the customer has paid for my fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Re Derek's Remark about pottering around with 10 litres of fuel. Just in case (lol) I whole heartedly agree. Whowever there is a little >:-) in me that feels filling up with a lotta cheaper fuel on the other side of the channel just to spite the chancellor, just enough to potter around until the next trip. :D Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 tonyishuk - 2012-04-02 5:07 AM Re Derek's Remark about pottering around with 10 litres of fuel. Just in case (lol) I whole heartedly agree. Whowever there is a little >:-) in me that feels filling up with a lotta cheaper fuel on the other side of the channel just to spite the chancellor, just enough to potter around until the next trip. :D Rgds This webpage compares European fuel prices: http://www.energy.eu/ In principle, it makes good financial sense to fill up your motorhome's fuel tank just before you cross back to the UK, though if you bought, say, 70 litres of 'French' diesel fuel just before you drove on to a Channel ferry, on average you'd only save about £12 compared to buying the same amount of fuel in this country. And, if you were being charged somewhere down the line for the euros you were using to buy the Continental fuel, you'd save even less. If you wanted to spite George Osborne (and who wouldn't?) buy 70 litres of inexpensive French wine instead, as that's where real comparative savings can be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airstream Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Hi All, Couple of thoughts Its illegal in several EU countries to carry "spare" fuel in a container of any sort and on the IOM ferry All the industrial gen sets I have worked on use RED diesel so not for use in road vehicles Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Why on earth would anyone want to carry spare Diesel fuel, first off it stinks to high heaven and chances are you'll get a splash of it decanting from a container, surely the best option is to take the opportunity to fill up when your down to half a tank, rather than running on fumes. At the moment I ain't going nowhere until this fuel shortage madness runs it's course, downside is the way it's shaping up that could be sometime. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Airstream - 2012-04-02 1:42 PM Hi All, Couple of thoughts Its illegal in several EU countries to carry "spare" fuel in a container of any sort and on the IOM ferry All the industrial gen sets I have worked on use RED diesel so not for use in road vehicles Regards Ray In the post I quoted that this was sold to staff for their own cars it is or was NORMAL diesel tha last time they swapped it.. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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