Mike B. Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Just thought I would make you aware of something which is largely ignored but can work out quite expensive and detrimental on insurance next time you renew. The Small White Boxes with cycles on at traffic lights before the white lines...... If you stop at traffic lights and your front wheels are in the box or even on the solid line, this is the same offence as failing to stop at a red light! A colleague of mine has just been booked for 'Contravening a Red Light Signal' and been fined and had 3 points on his licence. His crime? Front wheels in the cycle box. Must admit I didn't know it was that serious but obviously some police are very keen to uphold the letter of the law. Be warned! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Serves him right! A little more tolerance and respect for cyclists if you please! What we need is a law of "strict liability" which they have in some European countries. What it means is the vehicle driver is ALWAYS wrong in an incident with a bike. It teaches motorists to be more aware and not think it OK to bully cyclists of the road....Until we get this cyclists will continue to be injured and killed (that should do nicely......Moi retiring now to local pub to watch the fireworks! :D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel wood Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Judgemental I agree with you that motorists should respect and tolerate cyclists but I cannot agree that the law should ALWAYS assume that in any incident with a bike the motorist is always wrong. As regard the original comment, the "cycles only" area at traffic lights is there for a reason (mainly, I think, for cyclists' protection) and vehicles should not encroach into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Mel the "strict liability" law makes drivers think twice when approaching cyclists...Obviously if is goes to court the truth should come out if cyclist in the wrong. But the law makes drivers more careful and not so dismissive of cyclists. below is a wonderful example*-) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-17066798 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Well I would agree with you >:-) if there was a cyclist IN THE BOX :-D but I cant say that Ive ever noticed a white cyclist box!!!! (lol) and anyway what if the lights change to Amber and rather than put your foot down like some do you just stop????? and your front wheel is in the box!! is it in the highway code?? if its not Id have something to say before I paid up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 maggyd - 2012-03-23 6:47 PM Well I would agree with you >:-) if there was a cyclist IN THE BOX :-D but I cant say that Ive ever noticed a white cyclist box!!!! (lol) and anyway what if the lights change to Amber and rather than put your foot down like some do you just stop????? and your front wheel is in the box!! is it in the highway code?? if its not Id have something to say before I paid up. O>K where is it http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070563.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Interesting that someone should get done for this, as (if you know the regulations) it should be possible to make a plea that (under many circumstances) negated the charge. The governing directions (from the Highway Code - rule 178) are: Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows. "....but officer, the light changed to amber just as I approached the first line" Given the HC wording, and if it is reflected in the associated RTA and TSRGD wording, (which it appears to be) then I would think in many circumstances it would be difficult to make a charge "stick" (given that, the police would be unlikely to want to do the paperwork - were they likely to have encountered an "attitude problem" ;-)). The only circumstance I can think of where it would be difficult to plead not guilty is after a "cruise" up to the second line against a long-ago changed light, and being clearly observed by the police in doing so. ...anyway, I'm not at all sure why such boxes should be needed; traffic lights don't apply to cyclists, do they? - at least, they don't appear to do so round here. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I know i was told by a Dutch friend When over there, to 'Give cyclists a wide berth' and 'keep a sharp eye out for them' when on roundabouts and approaching Road juctions, as : (in his words) ' You are guilty until proven otherwise if you knock one off of their Bike'. So, i was extra careful. They appeared to ride about as if they were 'Immortal' although in a 'carefree way' rather than 'Agressively' as over here in big Cities. Don't know what the respective accident rates are ?? But it seemed to work in Holland. ;-) Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 In my experience cyclists don't use the boxes at traffic lights. They just barrel through regardless of whether the lights are red or amber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 maggyd - 2012-03-23 6:53 PM maggyd - 2012-03-23 6:47 PM Well I would agree with you >:-) if there was a cyclist IN THE BOX :-D but I cant say that Ive ever noticed a white cyclist box!!!! (lol) and anyway what if the lights change to Amber and rather than put your foot down like some do you just stop????? and your front wheel is in the box!! is it in the highway code?? if its not Id have something to say before I paid up. O>K where is it http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070563.pdf Highway Code - July 2010 edition - page 59 - rule 178. ( with picture ). :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I watched an interview with a Dutch cyclist recently, he pointed out the following: 1 their bikes are more upright - ie their heads are higher than their bums and so they have a clear view of what is happening around them 2 it is not usual to see Dutch cyclists riding round listening to their iPods, they can, therefore hear what is going on around them 3 most of their bikes have proper lights, not fancy posey flickering nonsense 4 cycling in the Netherlands is a means of getting from A to B, not a fashion statement, if they want to race or go off-road they adapt as necessary I recently passed 2 cyclists, [they were going the other way] who were riding down a twisty country lane at considerable speed using time-trial style handlebars, ie bum in air, and little or no control / balance / and unable to stop quickly - except by falling off everyone has a requirement to exercise duty of care and has personal responsibility All road users need to be aware of what is going on around them, some road users are more vulnerable than others, Many - or even most - road users frequently exhibit aggression, selfishness and appalling manners. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Rayjsj - 2012-03-23 7:54 PM I know i was told by a Dutch friend When over there, to 'Give cyclists a wide berth' and 'keep a sharp eye out for them' when on roundabouts and approaching Road juctions, as : (in his words) ' You are guilty until proven otherwise if you knock one off of their Bike'. So, i was extra careful. They appeared to ride about as if they were 'Immortal' although in a 'carefree way' rather than 'Agressively' as over here in big Cities. Don't know what the respective accident rates are ?? But it seemed to work in Holland. ;-) Ray Nice to see someone with some understanding and an iota of common sense........well done Ray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 bob b - 2012-03-23 8:14 PM In my experience cyclists don't use the boxes at traffic lights. They just barrel through regardless of whether the lights are red or amber. In sleepy Lincoln, they ride in the cycle lanes, no problem; they just ride in the wrong direction, on the wrong side of the road; but that's only when not riding on the pavement. When I say THEY, I don't mean ALL of them; just the idiots. I drive, and cycle, and I've no desire to harm or be harmed on the road. I used to be a "Bikewise" instructor, and would like to think that we did some good, but looking at the way lots of cyclists behave I'm not so sure. As for the point of the original post, I'm not sure of the wisdom of encouraging cyclists to line up across the entire width of the road. Starting from standstill is the most dangerous part of riding a bike for some people! Stay safe alan b p.s. Thanks for info; I'll avoid "the box" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 On the continent, a cyclist in a cycle lane has priority over a car which is exiting from a minor junction. It must give. Way to the motor traffic and the cycling traffic. In th UK a bike must slow down and, aswell as watching out for the waiting Vehicle at the junction, it must also keep watch over the right shoulder for a car turning left into the junction. To continually force cycle lane users to stop at junctions where, in a car they would have priority, is mad. This is one reason why a cyclist will slip off the pavement/cycle path into the road as the approach a junction. With cars held back an extra 3 yds (as in Holland) there is room for the bike to cross the junction safely with the correct priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Hi, I heard or read somewhere that lorries are being fitted with special or extra mirrors to enable cyclists to be more easily seen by the drivers. Would it be a good idea to make bikes have mirrors fitted? I am not excusing any driver who has or shows no respect for cyclists. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Yes! mirrors are essential on bikes..... The issue with lorries is that a lot of deaths occur when cyclists stupidly! ride up on the inside, the driver cant see the cyclist, and if the lorry turns left the cyclist can end up underneath or squashed against the railings....... This happens a lot with female riders. I always give large vehicles a wide berth and stay well back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Yes, cyclists do get a raw deal from some stupid drivers and being a motorcyclists I find it difficult to understand how many motorists cannot see me even with a headlight on and wearing a high viz jacket. Can only imagine how cyclists must suffer. But can I ask a favour of our two wheeled pedaling friends? When riding in my area of N. Wales on narrow roads could you please try and resist riding three and four abreast so causing a back up of slow traffic for miles. I have seen so many drivers losing their temper and taking the most stupid risks to get past a cycling club riding in this manner. I suppose I cannot sign off without being contraversial so "When are cyclists going to be made to have third party insurance like the rest of us?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 If cyclists are CTC, or club members, they will have third party insurance. Conditions allowing, clubs usually ride two abreast, and single out when necessary. From behind it may look as though they are four abreast, but are two abreast slightly staggered, giving the impression of four riders side by side. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 some (like me) will be covered through their home insurance as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Geoff Tuckley - 2012-03-24 8:00 PM I suppose I cannot sign off without being contraversial so "When are cyclists going to be made to have third party insurance like the rest of us?" You can just hear the insurance industry drooling over that idea already. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Im not anti bike :-S I ride a bike when away from home, and would ride at home if we had a Council that would cater for the cyclist e.g bike tracks!! for me to ride into town I would have to ride on the narrow road which is very busy with farmers fields either side of it. What I was saying I think it is unfair to be fined for having your front wheel over a line that is labelled 'bike box' if a bike was in it at the time! I can see why! !'you dont stop with the wheels on a pedestrian crossing either if a pedestrian is crossing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac111051 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Just a comparison between country's in 2011 the number of cyclist,s killed in London was 16 and 457 had serious injury's, in Paris with it,s crazy driver,s the number of cyclists killed was zero, maybe there system works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 maggyd - 2012-03-25 4:06 PM Im not anti bike :-S I ride a bike when away from home, and would ride at home if we had a Council that would cater for the cyclist e.g bike tracks!! for me to ride into town I would have to ride on the narrow road which is very busy with farmers fields either side of it. What I was saying I think it is unfair to be fined for having your front wheel over a line that is labelled 'bike box' if a bike was in it at the time! I can see why! !'you dont stop with the wheels on a pedestrian crossing either if a pedestrian is crossing. Hmmm.......what about the times cyclists can not enter box because they are occupied by these cars! Then the choice is to sit next to cars in narrow space and try and take of without wobbling with cars speeding past you, on there rush to next set of lights!. Some have little or no understanding of what it is like to cycle..We live in London and I cycle most days and have on average 2 near misses per week *-) its because of this situation that some are calling for a pre green light for cyclists so they can get away across lights safely before the mad rush starts. I can imagine some on here having fits of apoplexy at the thought of a mere cyclist having priority..... average speed of a car in London is 7 mph a bicycle is 12-15 mph. Cycling makes sense ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 average speed of a car in London is 7 mph a bicycle is 13 mph. Cycling makes sense Bearing in mind cyclist have just like motor vehcles to stop at traffic lights etc, to get an average of 13mph there are a lot of either very fit or very courageous cyclist in London. It must be ten years since I went there last so could I could be well out of touch. As for the 0 figure for fatally injured cylist in Paris -unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Its simply that cyclists don't get delayed in lines of slow traffic .... if I go shopping in Croydon, its about 4-5 miles. I can bike it there in 20 mins, Park in centre and it costs nothing. if I take car its 30 frustrating minutes and costs nearly £5 to park for a few hours :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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