The 'Clubs' - are they getting greedy?

[footloose]

Having just returned to motorhoming after a few years of camping we have been busy making plans for our travels this year. As members of both the Camping & Caravanning and the Caravan clubs we are horrifed at the prices they are now charging. I thought we were paying for a pitch for a night not bed and breakfast!

 

I do not have inside knowledge of the Caravan Club but certainly the C&CC is not run for the members (owners!) at all. It is run for the benefit of the management at Coventry, their families and friends.

 

I know that these clubs have to pay the site managers, many of whom are excellent, but these managers are paid the minimum wage and expected to work not just long hours but to cover at night as well.

 

I for one will am looking at using more more private sites now as there are some terrific value sites around. If the clubs are not careful they will kill the goose that laid the golden egg....it is all of us members that have funded their aggresive acquisitions over the last few years.

[Retread24800]

I guess this is what happens when you employ a 'professional' team to manage a members facility, And you must pay an attractive salary to attract the best staff, or is that from  a RBS/LLoyds-TSB brochure?

Yes You get a goodish deal on insurance and ferry crossings but surely the 'clubs' are getting an agents rake off as well to pay the admin costs? Site wardens do a great job no argument, and the real estate valuation must be huge by now, so there should not be any problem obtaining low cost funding for new acquisitions. And if city centre Offices cost a bomb then decentralise and really how difficult can it be to run a series of camp sites? how much foreign travel is needed to learn how to cut grass and build decent showers?

 

[Rayjsj]

I agree with some of what has been said, but not all, The more worrying aspect is the 'drive' (with the Caravan Club anyway) towards 'All singing,all dancing' type of sites and the 'dropping' of more 'Basic' ones. example : ' Hillhead nr. Brixham' swimming pool,'Entertainment complex' Restaurant, Etc. Etc.,

(I wouldn't stay there if THEY paid me !!). and yet, they have just announced the Closure of 'Elvaston Castle' nr. Derby, in parkland, with facilities but not 'over the top'. lovely walks, a good 'stopover' from the M1, easy travelling to lots of visitor attractions. Closed for re-developement as a Hotel/Golf course.

And of course they closed Braithwaite Fold , which was a favorite because it was in the centre of Windermere, a bit small maybye, but perfect for Motorhomes.

All this in a period of Increased membership and usage because of the 'Staycation' phenomena.

So, perhaps yes, a bit 'Greedy'. and getting 'out of tune' with what 'members want ?

OR am I just an 'old git' ?? answers on a stamped addressed envelope. ;-) Ray

[Robinhood]

.....I think you'll find the CC didn't "plan" to close either of the two mentioned sites.

 

Elvaston was (AFAIK) ultimately down to Derbyshire County Council development plans for the area, which made investment unattractive for such a short term, whereas the contract for running Braithwaite Fold for the local council ran out (and has now been taken up by the C&CC - the site remaining open).

 

 

[jocie]

I could not agree more with Rayjsj and I am seriously considering not renewing my Caravan Club membership next year.... >:-(

[hallii]

I had recently ceased membership of both clubs and did not intend to rejoin any of them.

 

However, circumstances dictated that we should join one or the other, so we rejoined the CC Club and the Motorhome Club.

 

Last week we stayed at sites from both of them. CC Club sites and CS and one Motorhome Club CS.

 

The Motorhome Club site was the best value at £9 a night inc. electric. The CC Club sites were expensive.

 

We stayed at one CS site that although being in the CCC book, had dropped out two years ago!

He dropped out because he was told his small shower and toilet block was "unacceptable" and "needed upgrading".

 

He was advised that the cost could be recovered by increasing prices.

 

I am glad he dropped out and ignored the requirements placed on him, we paid £10 for a hard standing with electric, water, disposal, site lighting, toilet and shower (OK the shower was 50p extra).

 

So it appears that CS sites are being guided down the same path of more (and unnecessary ) "improvements".

 

Never mind, there are still lots of small CS sites that carry on as they always have, tap, disposal and a field to yourself. That's where we will be staying until we can get back to Le continent.

 

H

[malc d]

They aren't getting greedy - they are just turning into holiday camps.

 

The C&CC don't even call 'em campsites any more - they are holiday sites - where they are building an increasing number of chalets.

 

 

:-(

[Guest pelmetman]

Firstly they are no longer clubs run for the benefits of its members, but big businesses run for the benefit of the bottom line..........and are cashing in on the staycation phenomenon......which explains why they are able to hike their prices during a recession *-)

 

I much prefer abroad now as their sites represent much better value...........I wonder if things will change once all the Johnny come lately's realise an all inclusive in the Caribbean is much better value and cheaper?... ;-)

[pepe63xnotuse]

jocie - 2012-03-26 11:38 AM

 

I could not agree more with Rayjsj and I am seriously considering not renewing my Caravan Club membership next year.... >:-(

 

yeah!..that'll show 'em eh!...(lol) (.."next" year.... ;-) )

 

...I assume that when folk come on forums in order to voice their disapproval at one or other of the "Clubs",that they have already contacted the club in question and discussed at length the issues that they're finding so galling.......?...yes?..no?.... :-S

 

We had a run-in with a CC warden a couple of years back* but on contacting(writing to!) "the club"(..and since revisting the site),I now see that the policy in question(on this site) has been changed..

 

As I've posted before, I hold no great allegiance to either of the main clubs(...we let the C&CC lapse because we weren't using their sites)but we are still in the CC..

We use a mix of club and commercial sites as and when it suits...and the CC's CL network is very good..and so for 40quid,I can't really see what folk expect... :-S

 

(...* Having already pitched up the night before,the warden,quite rudely, insisted that I turn my MH around and reverse onto the pitch,wrongly stating that they were "the club's rules".However this would've meant that my OS hab' door would've faced straight into the neigbour's open sided caravan awning..I refused and we left the site two days early).

 

[Guest pelmetman]

pepe63 - 2012-03-26 12:34 PM

 

...I assume that when folk come on forums in order to voice their disapproval at one or other of the "Clubs",that they have already contacted the club in question and discussed at length the issues that they're finding so galling.......?...yes?..no?.... :-S

 

We had a run-in with a CC warden a couple of years back* but on contacting(writing to!) "the club"(..and since revisting the site),I now see that the policy in question(on this site) has been changed..

 

 

 

Well you had better luck than I did.....Pepe...... when I complained about a pitch at Inceleboro fields that had a right of way through it................and depending on how you parked.......the right of way was either through our awning or our CAB 8-).............All I got from the CC was a load of guff.....they're only interested in squeezing every shekel out of the sites, by stuffing in as many pitches as possible *-)

[mel wood]

"Footloose" - I think that if you return to any activity after a few years you will find that some prices have increased, in some cases substantially.

 

You obviously have more knowledge than me about what site managers are paid but if they are paid the minimum wage then what are the assistants paid? Nor am I party to how CCC management, family and friends benefit through the way the Cliub is run.

 

I agree with you that there are some terrific value sites around. I would include some CCC sites, especially out of high season and with age discount (where appropriate). Although CC sites in the main are more expensive we feel that at times they offer good value.

 

As regards someone else's comment about Hillhead CC site, that is an exception within the CC network and whilst I also would not want to be there in High Season, we had a lovely stay there in early October a couple of years ago. Also sone commercial sites charge even more for similar or lesser facilities. (In Europe it can be even more; eg 2 years ago a super site in Port Grimaud 15 euros with ACSI card out of High Season but in High Season (no discounts) 58 euros per night. Likewise, similar prices on a site on Lake Garda. Having said that, some continental sites, especially French municipal ones, are incredible value.)

 

We are all free to use whatever sites we are willing to pay for, and free to join or not join either Club but I do get rather tired of folks "knocking " the CC and CCC. For us, and many others, quality of sites, location, prices at certain times, cost of motorhome insurance and European personal and motorhome breakdown insurance through CCC, cost of British breakdown cover including recovery through CC, value of CS,CL and THS, free CC nights through judicious use of CC credit card, cheaper ferry crossing this year through CC, decent monthly magazines and discounts through CC"Great Days Out" booklet mean we consider that our Club fees are well worth while.

 

Obviously, some people are happy without the above, and that is fine.

 

 

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

pelmetman - 2012-03-26 12:42 PM

 

...Well you had better luck than I did....All I got from the CC was a load of guff....

 

 

To be honst Dave,the initial response we had back from them,was just that "guff"("..Thank you for your letter..blahblah..Sorry to hear you feel disappointed..blahblah..")..So I just fired a letter back at 'em again,negating the arguments they'd put forward.. ;-)

 

Although who knows..in this case,maybe it's just the change of warden that has made the difference... ;-)

[malc d]

I was once told, when in my van on a C&CC site in Devon, that I might have to move on my second day because they were expecting a number of caravans to arrive and I was occupying a " caravan pitch "

 

Having been in the club about thirty years at the time I said I had never heard of a " caravan pitch " and asked for an explanation.

 

The warden ( sorry - Holiday Site Manager ) said he would get back to me - but I heard no more and we stayed put.

 

 

:-(

[Tony Jones]

Surely the point is, to look at what YOU might want from a Club, and decide whether the membership fee & charges are good value for YOU.

In our case, we've been in the CCC for a few years now, simply to have access to the CS network, and to obtain a Camping Carnet easily. We don't use Club sites, so I don't really mind what they charge there.

I certainly don't feel I "own" the Club in any way - I pay my "membership fee" as the price of the service I want to use, and as long as the sums add up for that I've no complaints.

[davidmac]

Picked up my M/C last week, spent a bit of time sorting out and buying a few bits and bobs to go with it and decided our first trip would be shomewhere not too far away to see how we get on.CC site near Cambridge looked about right 3/4 hour drive bus pass into the city, looked to book for wed/thur nights.Wed night full so ok thur/fri. Booked it but Friday night is £5 more than Thursday.I know that most things are about supply and demand but I think that if the club realy was for members, prices would be the same except for high days and holidays.

[Robinhood]

davidmac - 2012-03-26 8:04 PM

 

Booked it but Friday night is £5 more than Thursday.I know that most things are about supply and demand but I think that if the club realy was for members, prices would be the same except for high days and holidays.

 

.....it's the first night of the Easter School Holidays! :-S

 

The price rises for 14 days (but is the same weekday and weekend) and then reverts to the price you paid for the Thursday for some weeks.

 

There isn't (generally) a difference in price weekday and weekend, only a seasonal and holiday price change.

[Rayjsj]

pepe63 - 2012-03-26 12:34 PM

 

jocie - 2012-03-26 11:38 AM

 

I could not agree more with Rayjsj and I am seriously considering not renewing my Caravan Club membership next year.... >:-(

 

yeah!..that'll show 'em eh!...(lol) (.."next" year.... ;-) )

 

...I assume that when folk come on forums in order to voice their disapproval at one or other of the "Clubs",that they have already contacted the club in question and discussed at length the issues that they're finding so galling.......?...yes?..no?.... :-S

 

We had a run-in with a CC warden a couple of years back* but on contacting(writing to!) "the club"(..and since revisting the site),I now see that the policy in question(on this site) has been changed..

 

As I've posted before, I hold no great allegiance to either of the main clubs(...we let the C&CC lapse because we weren't using their sites)but we are still in the CC..

We use a mix of club and commercial sites as and when it suits...and the CC's CL network is very good..and so for 40quid,I can't really see what folk expect... :-S

 

(...* Having already pitched up the night before,the warden,quite rudely, insisted that I turn my MH around and reverse onto the pitch,wrongly stating that they were "the club's rules".However this would've meant that my OS hab' door would've faced straight into the neigbour's open sided caravan awning..I refused and we left the site two days early).

 

In answer Yes, E-mailed the C.Club before posting on here. Got the same reply as the statement in the Club magazine (word for word). just a short paragraph with no 'real explanation' as to why, 'If they owned the Freehold, didn't they Put in Hard standings, upgrade the loos, etc., Instead of selling up for development into a 'Hotel/ Golf club complex' !! So no answer at all really. Ray

 

and you were correct by the way, as long as the '6 metre' rule is observed, it doesn't matter which way around you face. Thats what the little white posts are for. (and for the number of course !).

[Mike B.]

Tony Jones - 2012-03-26 1:13 PM

 

Surely the point is, to look at what YOU might want from a Club, and decide whether the membership fee & charges are good value for YOU.

In our case, we've been in the CCC for a few years now, simply to have access to the CS network, and to obtain a Camping Carnet easily. We don't use Club sites, so I don't really mind what they charge there.

I certainly don't feel I "own" the Club in any way - I pay my "membership fee" as the price of the service I want to use, and as long as the sums add up for that I've no complaints.

 

I couldn't agree more Tony

We've been in the CC for donkey's years but have never stayed on a CC site ever. I could not and still cannot justify their charges of pitch/person to park up when I have all the facilities for both of us on board.

On saying that, we do use CLs and have stayed at some lovely ones which were quite cost effective to us. As for VFM, I have booked ferries through the club for years and in fact have got a return to France for this year with the trailer for £68-this easily covers my membership fee with the savings made here. In the past they have had ferry offers which gave me free camping cheques as well.

So as you say-it is what YOU want from the club that matters and for me it works out cost effective and gives me what I want-access to CLs, Cheap ferries, Special offers and a Magazine every month with some good stuff in it-not bad for 77p per week!

Mike

[HWO]

Much as I hate to say it but the men in grey suit's at CC HQ know what they are doing price wise.

 

Just in the middle of a little tour

 

First three nights, CC club at Chapel Lane, not full so there was a mid-week discount and price not too bad

 

Then three nights at Moreton-in-Marsh CC site, over fifty pounds for three nights in March, but the site was practically full all the time

 

Moved on to the Marina at Bath. Commercial site and not that good for facilities but great position.

We are there at moment and it is sixty two pounds for three nights and that is with over sixty discount.

The site was perhaps 3/4 full over weekend but now less the a 1/4 full.So I would say that they have not got their price's right

 

Tomorrow we move on to Baltic Wharf in Bristol. Site costs there are less than Bath but more than Moreton and I am sure the site will be full for the whole time we are there.

 

No I am afraid that the caravan club price's are set to what the market will stand, they are getting it right we have to live with it or push-off ,and at the monent there is plenty of people to fill the pitch's.

 

On the bright side the weather is bl**dy great and I have enjoyed myself at all three sites and hope to to tomorrow at Bristol

HWO

[david lloyd]

hallii - 2012-03-26 11:42 AM

 

I had recently ceased membership of both clubs and did not intend to rejoin any of them.

 

However, circumstances dictated that we should join one or the other, so we rejoined the CC Club and the Motorhome Club.

 

Last week we stayed at sites from both of them. CC Club sites and CS and one Motorhome Club CS.

 

The Motorhome Club site was the best value at £9 a night inc. electric. The CC Club sites were expensive.

 

We stayed at one CS site that although being in the CCC book, had dropped out two years ago!

He dropped out because he was told his small shower and toilet block was "unacceptable" and "needed upgrading".

 

He was advised that the cost could be recovered by increasing prices.

 

I am glad he dropped out and ignored the requirements placed on him, we paid £10 for a hard standing with electric, water, disposal, site lighting, toilet and shower (OK the shower was 50p extra).

 

So it appears that CS sites are being guided down the same path of more (and unnecessary ) "improvements".

 

Never mind, there are still lots of small CS sites that carry on as they always have, tap, disposal and a field to yourself. That's where we will be staying until we can get back to Le continent.

 

H

 

I must say we have long been in both clubs and have used their sites in preference to private sites (where we have experienced usually inferior facilities and not much price difference) but, like most people, we recently decided to tighten the old belt and thought we would start using CL's more.

 

Just last weekend spent three lovely, peaceful days on a small North Yorkshire farm no'but twenty miles form home for just £8 a night including electric.......marvellous.

 

Came home to find the Caravan Club magazine on the doormat and inside the great news that a new CL has opened at York Marina, Naburn......what a good location..... but, it is £21 per night.

 

David

[snowie]

Having just got our 2012 ACSI Guide I have come to the conclusion that maybe they have become "bloated" if not actually greedy.

 

I know that ACSI sites are independent, and not owned by ACSI, so I conclude that the head office surcharge is responsible for the difference in pricing. 12/14/16euro sites... great, what more could we want? That's inclusive of electricity.

 

I dare say both clubs would say they offer a premium product; well I'm not sure that should be the baseline, maybe it should be an option to buy into.

many of us I think would spend more nights on sites if prices were more attractive. Trouble is that there aren't enough pitches available at current prices, so demand currently outstrips supply (I think).

 

regards

alan b

[Retread24800]

Just had the flyer from FFCC -French federation for camping and caravanning and for 29 Euro you get membership of a club dedicated to fighting the corner for Campers etc. i.e Reduced road tolls for Camping Cars, protecting the right to park for Camping Cars and using existing legislation where communes discriminate against us. Reduced rates at numerous sites, helping organisations to set up Aires, Can you see or have you instances where either the CC or the C & CC have actually lobbied for any legislation to aid our lifestyle?

Oh Yes and you get free membership of ASCI thrown in. 

[Tony Jones]

This sounds brilliant - well worth supporting, as even in Fracne there are occasions when the normal camper-friendly approach seems to evaporate.

Retread24800 - 2012-03-29 5:27 PMJust had the flyer from FFCC -French federation for camping and caravanning and for 29 Euro you get membership of a club dedicated to fighting the corner for Campers etc. i.e Reduced road tolls for Camping Cars, protecting the right to park for Camping Cars and using existing legislation where communes discriminate against us. Reduced rates at numerous sites, helping organisations to set up Aires, Can you see or have you instances where either the CC or the C & CC have actually lobbied for any legislation to aid our lifestyle?

Oh Yes and you get free membership of ASCI thrown in. 

Absolutely not. In fact, the CC have "form" for campaining at European level against the whole concept of Aires and wild-camping.

[Retread24800]

Tony Jones - 2012-03-29 8:48 PMAbsolutely not. In fact, the CC have "form" for campaining at European level against the whole concept of Aires and wild-camping.

 

As would any Organisation where they saw a chance of their income stream diminishing. when will the 'clubs' change their titles to .plc?

[mirage]

I see the C.C. is having a Show Garden at the Chelsea Flower Show this year, is that really what members pay for? (See April Magazine)