Guest 1footinthegrave Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Well just taken my van in for MOT 2003 Ducato 2.8 PVC, the garage said among other things that the headlamp aim was too low ( fail ) and the front brakes were dangerous as they are out of balance, and a few other things that he said would probably be just just adjustments, the van is used almost on a weekly basis, this is not a case of sleepy van syndrome.. So here's the dilemma, I've been driving for nearly fifty years,and up until recent years have always done my own repairs, so I keep asking myself the same question despite coming up with the same answer, which is I'm being conned. Surely if the front brakes are "dangerously" out of balance I would have been very aware of this, there is absolutely NO pull to either side when braking, and how on earth can the headlamp aim be too low when no one has touched the headlamps ever. What do others think, bite the bullet and pay up for these "faults" and other dubious ones, or say thanks and pay for the fail slip and go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-03-28 7:09 PM Well just taken my van in for MOT 2003 Ducato 2.8 PVC, the garage said among other things that the headlamp aim was too low ( fail ) and the front brakes were dangerous as they are out of balance, and a few other things that he said would probably be just just adjustments, the van is used almost on a weekly basis, this is not a case of sleepy van syndrome.. So here's the dilemma, I've been driving for nearly fifty years,and up until recent years have always done my own repairs, so I keep asking myself the same question despite coming up with the same answer, which is I'm being conned. Surely if the front brakes are "dangerously" out of balance I would have been very aware of this, there is absolutely NO pull to either side when braking, and how on earth can the headlamp aim be too low when no one has touched the headlamps ever. What do others think, bite the bullet and pay up for these "faults" and other dubious ones, or say thanks and pay for the fail slip and go elsewhere. Hopefully this will not sound patronising but you haven't replaced 1 set of disc pads without replacing the other have you? I've never heard of brakes being out of balance before this with disc brakes. Mind you I'm not a mechanic. On the headlight front (excuse the pun) our toad just failed on exactly the same fault last week. However, he just adjusted the screws and issued the pass certificate (giving me both failure & pass certificates)-which I thought was a bit of a waste of time and money or maybe they have to show x amount of failures to show they are doing the job properly Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnerontheroad Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 If you take it else where it will be on the system that it failed because of X & Y. I always feel that I am ripped off by garages so have started to taken the van to the local council for MOT and the boss told me they will now service and do any repairs. Just as a side my lights failed this year they had not been touched *-) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddies104 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 If you have somewhere else to go, you could take the risk and just go there, and see what they say, will cost you the £40 or whatever, but if it passes you know they were conning you, if not You Lose!! Tough Call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmac Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 My 2003 m/h is on a peugeot chassis (same factory as Ducatto) and has headlight adjuster on the dashboard. If headlights are low or high can they be adjusted there for light or heavy load. If out of line that is different Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 davidmac - 2012-03-28 7:44 PM My 2003 m/h is on a peugeot chassis (same factory as Ducatto) and has headlight adjuster on the dashboard. If headlights are low or high can they be adjusted there for light or heavy load. If out of line that is different Regards David Yes-so has mine come to think of it-never occurred to me that! Doh so has the toad! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yrocker Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I take my van to a site that does NOT carry out repairs. They have no interest in failing the vehicle to make extra cash! I take the van for it's MOT about 3 weeks ahead of it's due date to allow time for repair elsewhere in the event of a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 If you have a garage which you use, not the MOT one, or know a mechanic, see if they will have a look at the brakes and give you their opinion and if they need doing, get them to do it then go back for the re-test, if they don't need doing, then you know you are being conned so you need to report the MOT garage. For our last camper we used a garage that only did MOTs and only very minor fixes (ie bulb blown, adjust lights etc) nothing else, that way we knew if a fault was found there was one and we weren't being ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Have you by chance changed the bulbs away from standard? I only ask because my son put halogen replacements in his car and had significantly different beam shapes as a result. Also have the laws been changed since yoyr last MOT, ie are they now testing for both high and low beams as opposed to high only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I guess seeing their four mechanics, and the usually busy yard being quiet set alarm bells ringing. Funny thing is I mentioned the electric head light height adjusters, but they said on the lowest setting they were too low despite never being touched in 9 years and on the original bulbs, also I keep going back to the front brakes being out of balance with zero clue in the vans straight line stopping ability, when previously this was always a dead giveaway as you feel a pull to one side on the steering wheel. What a pity garages seem so reluctant to allow you to view the MOT being carried out, that simply does not bode well, especially when all the "fails" are as he put it, probably just adjustments with no parts being required.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 If the headlamps are adjustable they have to be set in the highest position for the test. The MOT station I use for our cars like Mel's one only does MOT's and it has a viewing area, never been to any MOT place where you can not view. Very easy to get an uneven brake reading if the test is not done correctly, A few years ago MOT station was short staffed and asked me to drive onto the rollers for the test, first time I tried the brakes got a reading that was totally out of balance, had another go - perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I thought all MOT stations had a viewing area. For the last 10(? ) years all my MOT's have been done at a friends garage, I switch on lights etc whilst he checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Brakes can easily be out of balance, sticky brake cylinders can cause this, I usually watch my van being MOT d and often sit in the drivers seat and do the braking for the tester and so can watch the metre read out for each brake, Headlights can easily be off set, depends on how keen the previous testers have been and how keen the now tester is,the headlight aim can change depending on how your van is loaded, bite the bullet and let them fix things , sounds like it will be cheap enough to me if that's all that is wrong with your van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 You have a right to view the MOT and MOT stations will have an "MOT Viewing area". The front brakes will have been on the "roller brake tester" and they can show imbalance at some state of pedal pressure, you might not notice this during normal driving. It is, nontheless, a fail. Headlight aim regulations are stricter than they used to be, what may have passed inn previous years may not pass now. There is a correct way to test the aim and the tester will have set the beam leveller accordingly. Like you I do many of my own repairs, but I have become aware that wthout some sophisticated test equipment and software/computer many once simple tasks are now impossible for the DIYer. Most MOT testers (mine certainly) will explain any fail points fully, and the more modern brake testing machines can do a print out so you can see the efficiency of each wheel brake. It is an unfortunate fact that there are some rogue MOT testers out there, and maybe you have found one, the only way to find out is to appeal to the MOT authority and they will set up a test at one of their test centres. You will have to pay but if it passes you will get your fee refunded. I once did this with a motorbike and it passed and I did get my fee back, but the hassle and prospect of losing both MOT fees if it fails makes it simply not worth it. I would find another garage with a brake tester and get them to test the brakes for you, Kwik Fit will do a free brake test and so do some of the others. They also have a headlight aiming machine. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Many thanks to all, I'll just bite the bullet and pay up, it would be nice to think we are all dealing with honest folk, but garages have for so long been at the bottom of my list, oh well. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 lennyhb - 2012-03-28 8:42 PM If the headlamps are adjustable they have to be set in the highest position for the test. ............... I would question that statement as the manual, from the cab, adjustment should only be made if the load on the rear of the vehicle has caused theheadlight aim to be heigh. When ours is tested they always place the adjustment control to the zero position and then if there is a query with the aim check the setting number positions to ensure that the range falls within their specification. Of course the 0 position may be the highest on some vans however ours goes higher than the zero position. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Hi; it's a tricky one; I think it helps to have a relationship with your garage, and I'm always wary if I have to change for some reason. You say you did your own repairs until recently; have you used a few different garages for repairs and MOTs? Our local garage services and repairs our cars but can't do MOT's on vans our size, can do cars, so I get them to take the van for MOT, that way I have someone knowledgeable dealing with the garage I don't know. Works so far, good luck alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Your brake imballance would most probably show up if you had to do an emergency stop and then it would be a matter of finding out too late. ALL testing stations do have viewing areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Syd - 2012-03-29 9:40 AM Your brake imballance would most probably show up if you had to do an emergency stop and then it would be a matter of finding out too late. ALL testing stations do have viewing areas Not this one Syd I can assure you, neither did the one I used last year, although they did have a waiting room well away from the MOT bay. Anyway I have told them to complete the repairs so dilemma over. Will go to another garage next year where I can watch the test carried out. I think we would all be better served if MOT testing stations were completely separate from repairers, at least that would take away any nagging doubt about "finding" things if they are a bit short on work, or just fulfilling a fail quota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Do not know if it is a scam, but I recon most garages want to see around £200 for an Mot. So my policy is to get a service done at the same time as the Mot, that way they get their £200 and can adjust small things like headlamps within the service. At least I get something that I want rather than a few ajustments that they come up with to justify their £200. It hasworked so far. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 There's a mass opf information about the MOT test on www.ukmot.com The relevant sections for brake performance and headlamp aim are here: http://www.ukmot.com/3-7.asp#Text_top http://www.ukmot.com/1-6.asp#Text_top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I remember having a test carried out by a well known exhaust and tyre etc organisation, I smelled a rat when the technician told me I needed new boots while putting a large screwdriver back into his tool box ! When I want to look there was an horrendous tear in both boots and fresh rubber showing. They did not get the job and My tame fitter arranged the follow up Test Now TG My 'MOT' or 'Controle technique' is carried out by an independent test house with no ability to correct faults and where there is no tie in with any garage, and thus no temptation to gold plate the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod_vw Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-03-29 10:46 AM Syd - 2012-03-29 9:40 AM Your brake imballance would most probably show up if you had to do an emergency stop and then it would be a matter of finding out too late. ALL testing stations do have viewing areas Not this one Syd I can assure you, neither did the one I used last year, although they did have a waiting room well away from the MOT bay. Anyway I have told them to complete the repairs so dilemma over. Will go to another garage next year where I can watch the test carried out. I think we would all be better served if MOT testing stations were completely separate from repairers, at least that would take away any nagging doubt about "finding" things if they are a bit short on work, or just fulfilling a fail quota. I think a viewing area is a legal requirement of an MOT station! If they haven't got one then they are in breach of their agreement with VOSA or whoever regulates them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 From gov website How vehicles are tested MOT test stations have designated test bays where they conduct the test, using a range of equipment that meets the required specification for MOT testing. The standard test procedures are laid out in an inspection manual that the test station should make available on request. If your vehicle has failed the test, you’ll be given a failure document with reference to this manual. You can watch the test from a designated viewing area but you are not allowed to interrupt the tester while he is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duetto owner Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 my motorhome just had its first mot along with its three year service. on checking the bill got £13 MOT arrangement fee apparently they could not do the mot had to go to a commercial centre. next problem inside the bonnet at the top an area of rust, so i asked them to check it out and they said it was normal transit get that if they sit too long without use. also no proper mot certificate just a two page print out. so not impressed with the mot this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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