Know Your Speed Limits ??

[tonyishuk]

Apologies but I took this from another thread as the discussion was going O/thread about axle weighing.

 

The discussion is turning interesting but maybe in the wrong thread.

 

 

 

Basil - 2012-04-20 2:45 PM

 

pepe63 - 2012-04-20 11:23 AM

 

Tony..

Be aware that when it comes to speed limits,it's the UNLADEN weight that counts and not the gross 3500kg figure..

 

Once over 3050 kg unladen,restriction come into play(...so you may already be "restricted", speed wise?)

 

http://www.motorhomeplanet.co.uk/motorhome-speed-limits/

 

Steve..thanks for that "weighbridge" link ;-)

 

Think you may be WRONG on this as the rules changed, I believe last year, to bring into line with EU. Speed limits are now on LADEN (or rather Gross Vehicle) wieght see

 

http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Driving/DefensiveDriving/Speed/UK_Speed_limits.html

 

AFAIaA this applies to motorhomes as well it is no longer unladen weight. i.e. Under 3500GVW as car speed limits over 3500GVW restricted speeds.

 

Hence my comments about reduced speed limits if your motorhome, sorry motor caravan, is registered as a van, because vans are restricted over 2000GVW.

 

Bas

 

P.S. Unless of course it hasn't been implemented, remember lots of talk about it but can't recall seeing an outcome.

 

I had a quick look at Direct Gov site and Highway Code and needless to say I cannot find anything specifiic to "motor caravan" as a definition of a vehicle. I would assume as the vehicle type described in the V5, some pen pusher would have written about it in Govenment Speak. (Maybe not ;-) )

 

Rgds

 

Rgds

[Basil]

This was the discussion that was occurring that I never saw a definitive answer too.

 

As, traditionally motorhomes are/ were allowed to do the same speeds as cars provided that the unladen weight was less than 3050kgs, when the rules were changed to make the speed limits aligned to GVW i.e. 3500kgs, does that now mean that as the motor caravan is treated as a car if it is over 2000kgs is it subject to lower speed limits?

 

This is definately so for anyone whose motor caravan is not registered as such as it has to comply with the van speed limits, note the table at the bottom of this page

 

http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Driving/DefensiveDriving/Speed/UK_Speed_limits.html

 

all the .gov and DVLA information I can find suggest it is any car or van over 2000kgs but I certainly would like to see a definitive answer.

 

Bas

[Basil]

My previous comment re cars over 2000kgs is wrong as I think actually that the following link gives the answer to MC under 3500kgs

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Roadsafetyadvice/DG_178867

 

As it states Cars and Motorcycles (including car derived vans up to 2000kgs) therefore as Motorcaravans are defined as cars then it is status quo. However my understanding is that the changeover PLG to PHG is no longer based on unladen weight but on GVW.

Perhaps someone can confirm as it will make it much easier for any interested party to determine which speed limit a PLG or PHG should be travelling at.

 

 

Bas

[Robinhood]

I'm not sure whether the proposals were adopted or not post-consultation, but AIUI, the proposals themselves didn't affect any motor caravan that "crept in" beneath the 3050kg (3 imperial tons) unladen weight. They were more aimed at rationalisation of the motorway speed limit for general HGVs and PCVs, and still maintained some (though less) of the old exceptions.

 

The documentation on the proposals (archived here) :

 

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/tna/20100927131008/http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/2010-06/

 

...............make the continuance of the existing 3.05t ULW break point for Motor Caravans clear.

 

BTW, the definiton of a Motor Caravan (referred to for most of the relevant legislation) is in Regulation 2(1) of the Motor Vehicles (Type Approval) (Great Britain) Regulations 1979, and reads:

 

"motor caravan” means a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living accommodation for its users

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Although mine ( and many others apparently in the industry ) was converted from new by IH motor homes, my reg document stated body type panel van, and the taxation class light goods vehicle. After a lot of faffing about with letters from IH motor homes, and about a dozen pictures, I finally got it changed by DVLA to body type "Motor Caravan" but the taxation class came back unchanged, it was still LGV, with the speed limit implications the same as before. When I challenged them about this they told me the taxation class could not be changed, at that point I gave up, and now stick to LGV speed limits.

 

Folk who have never done so would be advised to check their reg document before they assume they can do car speed limits. ;-)

[Derek Uzzell]

1footinthegrave - 2012-04-20 7:03 PM

 

Although mine ( and many others apparently in the industry ) was converted from new by IH motor homes, my reg document stated body type panel van, and the taxation class light goods vehicle. After a lot of faffing about with letters from IH motor homes, and about a dozen pictures, I finally got it changed by DVLA to body type "Motor Caravan" but the taxation class came back unchanged, it was still LGV, with the speed limit implications the same as before. When I challenged them about this they told me the taxation class could not be changed, at that point I gave up, and now stick to LGV speed limits.

 

Folk who have never done so would be advised to check their reg document before they assume they can do car speed limits. ;-)

 

Plainly a VED Taxation Class CAN be changed - it must (or should) happen each time a motorhome is 'down-plated' (TC10 to TC11) or 'up-plated' (TC11 to TC10), or when, say, a motorcycle is converted into a tricycle (TC17 to TC50). There's also plenty of opportunity for a specification change within a Taxation Class to alter a VED rate (eg. changing the number of seats in a bus.)

 

Of course - as 1foot found - it may prove extremely difficult to get a Taxation Class change made if a DVLA contact is reluctant to play ball and, if the proposal to close all local DVLA offices by 2013 goes ahead leaving the Swansea main office as the sole DVLA point of contact, altering Taxation Classes may prove to be even harder in the future.

[Basil]

Thanks for that Robinhood and Derek, that clears up the 3050kgs question I had.

.

Might still be the anomolies reffered to above by 1Foot which is what I had heard about where a PVC is still not registered as a motor caravan and therefore subject to lower limits.

 

Thanks again.

 

Bas

[Derek Uzzell]

Basil - 2012-04-21 3:38 PM

 

Thanks for that Robinhood and Derek, that clears up the 3050kgs question I had.

.

Might still be the anomolies reffered to above by 1Foot which is what I had heard about where a PVC is still not registered as a motor caravan and therefore subject to lower limits.

 

Thanks again.

 

Bas

 

Not having "Motor Caravan" on a motorhome's UK Registration Document shpuld not adversely affect the UK speed limits that apply to that vehicle (though it MIGHT have an impact regarding insurance).

 

What affects the speed limits is if the motorhome is not placed in the TC11 (Private/Light Goods Vehicles) VED taxation class (where 'car' speed limits and the 3050kg unladen-weight restriction apply), but placed in another VED class (eg. TC39 Light Goods Vehicles) that relates to vehicles to which lower speed limits apply. Evidently this has happened with 1foot, where his IH Motorhomes-built PVC was initially UK-registered as a TC39 'white van' rather than as a TC11 Motor Caravan.

 

The give-away as to whether an up-to-3500kg MTPLM motorhome has been appropriately registered in the TC11 PLG taxation class is in the VED rate that's being applied to it by the DVLA. From 1 April 2012 the annual VED rate for TC11 is £220 - if any other rate is being charged, then the motorhome has been placed in a different VED class and it's probable that lower UK speed limits will apply to it.