Knaus Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I have a Fiat Ducato 2.3 motorhome. I have just had a rear coil spring collapse and break. Has anyone had this and if so what was the cost of replacing both rear coil springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Are you sure you mean rear "coil" spring? A Ducato would normally have rear leaf springs (or a rear torsion-bar if an Al-Ko chassis were used). Coil springs can be used to provide assistance to leaf springs, but it would be a non-standard addition and (as far as I'm aware) not factory-fitted by Fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Have you actually looked the broken coil spring? I trust it is a leaf spring and from main dealer wil be over £300 each retail. Then fitting on top. Probably about an hour each side and then another half hour checking tracking of rear and alighningment. So say 3 hours Labour. I am guessing you will be about £800 to £900 at a dealers. If you can get the correct leaf springs aftermarket , big 'if' to get correct rating, and use a non dealer garage you should save quite a bit..probably half the costs or less. Warranty claim possibly??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Never thought of that derek - you mean something like this.... http://www.springassisters.co.uk/KR6104E%20INST.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ina Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 We had a rear leaf spring (not coil spring) break on our Mercedes Rapido, so perhaps not a real comparison. However, as the van was under 3 years old at the time, as a "gesture of goodwill" Mercedes agreed to pay half of it, which came to £143. We asked about having both replaced but were told it was not necessary, so only had the one done. We were asked at the time whether we had overloaded the vehicle, which we hadn't, as proved by going to the weighbridge, we were about 200kg under maximum. One theory put forward by Mercedes at the time was that it could have been either the severe weather (it happened in January 2011, just after the severe frosts/snow of the previous December), the other was that we had hit a pothole really hard. I think we would have known if we had! It happened to us as we drove forward off the driveway to go away for a few days, it went with a right bang and frightened the living daylights out of us!! We had no idea what had happened until OH had a look underneath the van. Not something I hope will happen again!! Ina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Rummaging back through Knaus's earlier forum postings, it seems that in 2008 he then owned a 2004 Knaus Traveller 505, an example of which is shown here: http://www.motorhomes.mobi/Motorhomes/tabid/95/ItemID/21694/Default.aspx Let's assume, on the basis that rear-spring failure on an 8-year old motorhome might not be too unusual, that Knaus still owns the Traveller 505. I haven't got literature relating to a 2004 505, but I have got a 2001 Knaus brochure for its predecessor (the Traveller 504). Coil-spring assisters for the rear axle's leaf-springs were a standard feature for that model, fitting between the chassis-rail and the leaf-spring and surrounding a long conical 'bump stop' similar in principle to the diagram Brambles provided a link to. Grayston Enginnering markets a wide range of coil-spring assisters http://www.springassisters.co.uk/ but I've no idea a) whether the Traveller 505 had the same type of springing as the 504, or b) whether Grayston could provide an exact replacement for whatever Knaus used. Grayston may be able to say and to provide a price - I'd guess at £200 - £250. Fitting coil-spring assisters should be relatively easy as long as suitable lifting equipment is available, but, if the cost of replacement coil-springs is much over £200, opting for an air-bellows system might be a better plan. http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/dunlop-suspension-fiat-ducato-x244-20022006-p-1962.html It might still be possible to obtain replacement coil springs from Knaus - if so, then the Knaus Motorhome Owners Club might know. http://www.knausowners.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Brambles - 2012-04-22 5:02 PM Have you actually looked the broken coil spring? I trust it is a leaf spring and from main dealer wil be over £300 each retail. Then fitting on top. Probably about an hour each side and then another half hour checking tracking of rear and alighningment. So say 3 hours Labour. I am guessing you will be about £800 to £900 at a dealers. If you can get the correct leaf springs aftermarket , big 'if' to get correct rating, and use a non dealer garage you should save quite a bit..probably half the costs or less. Warranty claim possibly??? Brambles, with the dead beam axle and leaf spring set up used on the Ducato the system is totally non adjustable. Therefore no need to check rear alignment unless severe impact had occurred and then its a matter of renewing any damaged parts only. There is no adjustment on the Al-Ko trailing arm system either. In both types misalignment can only result from heavy impact or extreme wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 You misinterpret what I meant. I am not going to argue the point about axles being out of true when leaf springs are replaced as we seem to have established it is probably spring assistors which have failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Though the standard Ducato rear suspemsion is single leaf "cartsprings" I have seen offered as a base vehicle option on the X250 panel van twin leaf springs at an additional cost of £70 or thereabouts. On an earlier post I think by Nick of Euroserve it was said that the ride is hard unless the van is near its maximum laden weight but it seems most PVC vans are near their weight limits when out on tour. Has anyone else had experience of driving a van with these fitted and has anyone had them retrofitted and at what cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Another possible replacement coil-spring option: http://mad-suspension.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=1&product_id=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChrisB Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 bobalobs - 2012-04-23 10:08 AM Though the standard Ducato rear suspemsion is single leaf "cartsprings" I have seen offered as a base vehicle option on the X250 panel van twin leaf springs at an additional cost of £70 or thereabouts. On an earlier post I think by Nick of Euroserve it was said that the ride is hard unless the van is near its maximum laden weight but it seems most PVC vans are near their weight limits when out on tour. Has anyone else had experience of driving a van with these fitted and has anyone had them retrofitted and at what cost? Ordered the extra leaf with my new van (3500kg max) as was on the Fiat options list at around £50 and the previous X250 was sitting pretty close to the rubber assistors even when unladen. Seemed worth the extra minimal cost. I believe some of the converters now fit as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I agree it does seem well worthwhile having them fitted from new. However i suspect it will cost ten times the newfit price to have them retrofitted. Please someone prove me wrong! I have found that mudflaps on a newbuild are about £60 for four but try and replace one and it willcost at least £70 !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Euroserv discussed X250 panel-van rear springing here: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23404&start=1 A potential problem with opting for heavier-duty springs (or adding metal spring assisters) is an obvious one - if you end up with an uncomfortably hard ride, there's nothing you can realistically do about it. In the early/mid 2000s Knaus was buiding motorhomes with a substantial overall maximum weight using relatively lightly specified standard Fiat Ducato chassis. To cope with that weight many Knaus models had coil-spring assisters added to their rear suspension. It would appear that one of the coil-spring assisters has failed on Knaus's motorhome. If it's possible to obtain identical springs to the originals, then the motorhome's ride/handling should be no different from when it was new. However, if a different specification spring were used, there's no guarantee what the effect would be. The Grayston auxiliary-spring kit for a 2004 Ducato seems to comprise 4 coil-springs (2 per leaf) and I'm not confident that the MAD spring would fit over the bump-stop that's encircled by the Knaus-fitted assister. Unless identical spring-assisters can be sourced, it's quite possible that not just replacement coils would be needed, but also replacement bump-stops. All of this adds up cost-wise and, as the price goes up, so does an air-bellows assistance system look increasingly inviting. At least with air bellows the motorhome owner can adjust the level of spring-assistance according to preference and the vehicle's loading. It might also be a useful selling point - I'd find an air-bellows system an attractive feature of a secondhand motorhome, unlike being told that its coil-spring assisters had needed to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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