pepe63xnotuse Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Laika 4.1 - 2012-05-01 8:19 PM ..... BUT cars can still park overnight for free, why do we have to pay and what are we paying for. Don't object to paying normally but this is a CAR park not even marked out for larger units. I would *assume* that they probably differenciate between just "parking" and "overnighting".... As for "..why do we have to pay and what are we paying for..", well by that reasoning,I guess you could ask that question of ANY parking charge then..? :-S ..and I would assume that by people "choosing" to pitch in the town centre/on the prom,then they'd be more conveniently situated for the very things that made them visit the town in the first place..? (..and after all, you tend to find B&Bs/hotels are dearer,the closer to the prom/centre they are..) But personally, unless it was just to get my head down for a few hours or to attend a specific event,I wouldn't really want to pitching up over night in a town centre carpark,let alone one that is next to a pub and is shared with the local cimena and bowling alley? :-S But if someone does choose such a location,then that's fine but surely they would also be "choosing" to accept the charges that apply..?(I know I would..if I didn't,I'd move somewhere else..) (..and surely if people *are* going be be questioning the few quid it costs to "overnight" there,then just how much are they really going the be "splashing out" in the local resturants,galleries,museums etc,as someone alluded too earlier in the thread.. (lol) ) Edit:Why has this thread gone all W---I---D---E ? 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 pepe63 - 2012-05-02 9:49 AM Laika 4.1 - 2012-05-01 8:19 PM ..... BUT cars can still park overnight for free, why do we have to pay and what are we paying for. Don't object to paying normally but this is a CAR park not even marked out for larger units. I would *assume* that they probably differenciate between just "parking" and "overnighting".... As for "..why do we have to pay and what are we paying for..", well by that reasoning,I guess you could ask that question of ANY parking charge then..? :-S ..and I would assume that by people "choosing" to pitch in the town centre/on the prom,then they'd be more conveniently situated for the very things that made them visit the town in the first place..? (..and after all, you tend to find B&Bs/hotels are dearer,the closer to the prom/centre they are..) But personally, unless it was just to get my head down for a few hours or to attend a specific event,I wouldn't really want to pitching up over night in a town centre carpark,let alone one that is next to a pub and is shared with the local cimena and bowling alley? :-S But if someone does choose such a location,then that's fine but surely they would also be "choosing" to accept the charges that apply..?(I know I would..if I didn't,I'd move somewhere else..) (..and surely if people *are* going be be questioning the few quid it costs to "overnight" there,then just how much are they really going the be "splashing out" in the local resturants,galleries,museums etc,as someone alluded too earlier in the thread.. (lol) ) Edit:Why has this thread gone all W---I---D---E ? 8-) Why has it gone all wide? Ill keep pressing return to keep it in sight! Personally I resent having to pay for parking full stop and tend to just use our scooter. However I do not mind spending money in the Local area. I might be a tight sod when it comes to how much I spend on parking the van and I like to wild or use CL sites for a few quid but I am not averse to spending £50+ on a meal or buying food, drinks and goods locally. I just dont want to pay to park a van that for four days or so requires no filling or emptying and is self contained. All I need is somewhere to park my four wheels on a bit of tarmac. I would never dream of spending £14 for a campsite let alone a scrappy car park! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Loynd Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Dear all forum members, I was provided this link by one of your members so that I can comment directly on the situation you are discussing. I have answered several points that have been mentioned on this thread on Fylde Borough Council's website discussion board at https://getsatisfaction.com/fylde/topics/overnight_provision_for_motorhomes_in_fylde. Firstly may I clarify the charges for using this facility. The cost is £5 per vehicle per night from 6pm to 10am (not as a previous poster added that it is £5 per bay). Although the standard operating hours of the car park are 9am to 6pm we are allowing motorhomers an extra hour at the overnight rate to enable those who wish to leave time to pack and move on at a reasonable time. For those wishing to stay during the day the conditions of using the car park revert to the standard long-stay car park conditions of £2.10 for up to 2 hours, £2.70 for 2-3 hours, £3.20 for 3 to 4 hours and £4.30 for over 4 hours. These charges are applied per bay. The reason why charges have been maintained during the day is due to the location of this car park. Although it is close to the centre of St Annes this particular car park is the main one used by tourists visiting the promenade attractions. On busy days this car park is the first to be filled and as such space is in high demand. We therefore have a duty to the businesses surrounding this car park (a leisure centre, cinema, RLNI centre as well as a carvery public house plus the associated promenade attractions) to enable as many visitors to park here as possible. This policy is not aimed at penalising motorhomers (though i appreciate that you may feel it is) but to ensure as many visitors as possible can use the facilities. It should also be noted that we are not setting ourselves up as a motorhome park as there are several of those across the Fylde Coast and we do not wish to impact on their business. We are only providing this facility for people who do not wish to visit a standard motorhome park but to provide an alternative to parking on the street which generates a lot of complaints to Local Councillors from residents. With regard the facilities that are provided for motorhomers I can confirm that there are currently none provided. This is because this is just a pilot phase. There is an intention by the Council Portfolio Holder for car parks that, should this scheme be extended long term, investment will be made to provide other services such as waste (rubbish as well as black and grey water) and potable water. However during this pilot phase it was not feasible to provide them due to their cost plus the fact that by providing any services we would require planning permission for a change of use which would have further costs associated. As it is, the set-up costs to allow overnight motorhome parking for the pilot period were in excess of £2,000 which covered the change to the parking order (as its associated advertising), changing the tariffs on the ticket machine and creating new signage. This does not cover the staff costs to get to this stage which have been very high over the 2 1/2 years we have been trying to get this off the ground. It has been mentioned that new signs have been added to the tariff boards on other car parks stating 'No Overnight Motorhome Parking'. This is correct. There has always been a blanket-ban on sleeping overnight in all of our car parks but only now with these alternative arrangements in place are we able to enforce this. Please remember that this is just a pilot phase. We have not really had any examples of other areas in this country offering the same so we may not have got it right first time. As such we are seeking feedback from those who use this site over the coming months, details of which can be found on the Motorhome conditions board when you arrive. Despite the view of some people we do want to make this work in the long term but we will need your support. At the end of the pilot phase we will consider the feedback supplied by motorhomers, local residents and other users. This feedback will be reviewed by a group of councillors who will ultimately make the decision on the future of this scheme. Regards Andrew Loynd Principal Parking and Energy Officer Fylde Borough Council Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Thanks very much for filling us in and clarifying a few points Andrew... Let's hope that it's a success and that the surrounding businesses,as well as motorhomers,benefit from it. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wints Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Andrew Loynd - 2012-05-02 2:39 PM It has been mentioned that new signs have been added to the tariff boards on other car parks stating 'No Overnight Motorhome Parking'. This is correct. There has always been a blanket-ban on sleeping overnight in all of our car parks but only now with these alternative arrangements in place are we able to enforce this. Regards Andrew Loynd Principal Parking and Energy Officer Fylde Borough Council The car park at Granny's Bay / Fairhaven Lake definetly allowed overnight parking for motorhomes. About a year ago, whilst there, I was approached by a lady who owned the fudge shop in Lytham (or possbly St Annes) who said that she'd been quite vocal in praising the council for allowing this. It's a shame if this has gone. Can the local campsite owners (I don't think there's any within 10 mls of this spot) really weild so much power ? I'm another one !!! Why is this page so wide ? It's running into my printer!! regards Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Whilst I welcome your detailed response Andrew I think if anything the changes are going to put people off more than encourage them. Ok so the charges are clear for overnighting at £5 regardless of if you cover two bays. Thats fine. I think people will pay that although the costs during the day will make sure most just use it as a one night stopover. I think however its a shame that this now means all the other stopovers used in the past such as the lake are now off limits. I imagine that huge car park by the lake probably sits empty most evenings, would it not make more sense to offer this facility there as well and even make a small charge? I think the seaside councils are missing a trick really. Campsites will never get my business nor many others and the kind of motorhomers that park up at places like the lake or the new facility your offering probably dont like to use them either. There are plenty that do though and providing overnight parking or relaxing the bylaws will not deter from that. What you will do is bring in new business. You tend to find that the motorhomers who dont like campsites tend to go to the places they are made welcome or where parking is easy. Sadly many of us including myself simply head over the channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Loynd Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Hi Allan, Although some motorhomes did stay on Stanner Bank Car Park previously they were never actually allowed to. On the Car Park Order 2007 it states that: 'No person shall use any part of the parking place or any vehicle left in a parking place- a) for sleeping or camping purposes; b) for eating or cooking purposes...' We simply never enforced this element of the order previously with our reasoning being that to do so would simply shift motorhomers onto the streets where even more complaints would be received. In the past we have had many complaints from residents overlooking Stanner Bank complaining about motorhomers on this car park. I think an earlier poster was quite accurate in their statement of it being a wealthy area in that the complaints received generally along the lines of 'I paid a lot of money for a sea-view property and pay a lot in Council Tax. I don't want to see Motorhomes and why should they get a sea-view when they haven't paid council tax.' I received a similar complaint to this last Friday regarding one motorhome parked on North Promenade Car Park. It was this complaint that prompted me to add notices to all other car parks stating that there is 'No Overnight Motorhome Parking' to reinforce the existing order. It is because of these sorts of complaints from residents that over-look the various sea-front car parks that the location of the swimming pool car park was chosen. It was not chosen because it was close to the town centre (though that is an added benefit to motorhomers) but because it is flanked on three sides which mean there are no residents overlooking this car park. As for the local campsite owners wielding power, it is not so much that they have had any direct influence over the decision process but more that politically it would be unwise for the council to go in direct competition with a local business considering we are supposed to support the local economy. We did have one local owner who provided some feedback but this was mainly positive as they also represented a local/regional mortorhoming group so they could see the benefit of the scheme though they did express concern over the impact it would have on their trade which is understandable. Regards Andrew Loynd Principal Parking and Energy Officer Fylde Borough Council Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wints Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Hi Andrew this is a photo of the car park in question, no mention of no overnighting ! Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wints Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 wints - 2012-05-02 8:05 PM Hi Andrew this is a photo of the car park in question, no mention of no overnighting ! Allen Well, that's not worked. Got to reduce 160 kb to less than 100. I'm working on it ! Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Andrew Loynd - 2012-05-02 6:28 PM...the complaints received generally along the lines of 'I paid a lot of money for a sea-view property and pay a lot in Council Tax. I don't want to see Motorhomes and why should they get a sea-view when they haven't paid council tax.' I received a similar complaint to this last Friday regarding one motorhome parked on North Promenade Car Park. It was this complaint that prompted ... It's exactly this kind of situation that I have long suspected, and some confirmation at least that it is indeed our user group that is one of the root causes of the imposition of various parking enforcement measures. We are not - as is seemingly widely believed - necessarily incidental victims, or disadvantaged by arbitrary rules made by pencil necks. I've actually witnessed 'nests' of 'vanners myself at popular locations and even I, as a confirmed wildcamper, am irritated. We are mobile, it's not hard to overnight out of sight / people's way. We are clearly able to constitute a nuisance and would do well to hold this uppermost in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wints Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Just back from a meet with the C&CC at Arnside. Lovely place. Anyway, hopefully the photo of the parking sign at the fairhaven lake car park will now be attached, fingers crossed. regards Allen should've added that the pic is from Rebbyvid on Wildcamping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 wints - 2012-05-02 3:10 PM ...I'm another one !!! Why is this page so wide ? It's running into my printer!! A little late in the day, but the reason Page 1 of this thread went wide was due to flicka earlier providing a very long link that caused the page-width to extend. There are ways round this - probably the simplest and best-known ploy is to use the tinyURL facility http://tinyurl.com/ Taking flicka's link and using tinyURL produces http://tinyurl.com/c3g4jhv If you click on flicka's link and the tinyURL version I've just created you'll find that they will both send you to the same webpage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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