Guest pelmetman Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Sold my 1500kg trailer, about to order a new 750kg Blue line mini............But :-S My Gross Vehicle weight is 2770kg.........My Gross Train weight is 3500kg..........which leaves 730kg. I have read on another forum that if stopped by the department of transport they just add the two plates together rather than actually weigh the vehicle? :-S................Which means that I could be 20kg over weight on a technicality 8-) Anyone know anymore about this?............I have also read that I can plate the trailer lower myself (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Hah ha...that looks like exactly what I need for next winter trip. roller door has to be more secure you think? But surely that cant be right to add both weights together :-S I can only drive 3500kg on my license, towing I thought was in addition... My van gross weight is 3300kg. can tow either 2000 or 2500kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeaflight Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 You could leave 20 kg off your van payload. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Surely 750kg is the weight your trailer can carry not the weight of the trailer? I have a 750kg trailer which weighs hardly anything until I put the bike on-is it not total weight you have to consider? Consequently-don't fill the trailer to much Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Mike B. - 2012-04-26 10:17 AM Surely 750kg is the weight your trailer can carry not the weight of the trailer? I have a 750kg trailer which weighs hardly anything until I put the bike on-is it not total weight you have to consider? Consequently-don't fill the trailer to much Mike trailer kerb weight just under 200Kg so approx 550kg load capacity. So 750kg includes weight of trailer + load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeaflight Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Just had a look at the Blue Line Mini Trailer. it's Unladen Weight is 195kgs with a Gross Weight 750 kgs. If stopped even if the trailer is empty they will take the potential weight that you could be carrying. I.E. 750 kg however as I said, to compensate you can leave of van payload. Also if you tow using a Multi-purpose vehicle, e.g. Panel Van, 4x4 or commercial and Vosa pull you and you are using the trailer for business, then the tow vehicle as to have a tacho. As I found out on the M6. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 takeaflight - 2012-04-26 10:25 AM Just had a look at the Blue Line Mini Trailer. it's Unladen Weight is 195kgs with a Gross Weight 750 kgs. If stopped even if the trailer is empty they will take the potential weight that you could be carrying. I.E. 750 kg however as I said, to compensate you can leave of van payload. This is what I wanted to confirm that they can just add the two plated weights together and hit you with a fine regardless of whether you are actually overweight *-) Seeing how the country is on its uppers no doubt our officials will try to wring every shekel out of the unsuspecting motorist............. I reckon I'll re plate the trailer rather than the camper as we are tight on payload with the camper already :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeaflight Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Can you move payload from camper to trailer (20Kg). ? Just as a point, my understanding is that some time last year, the requirement for police to stop you for Vosa to inspect was removed, hence more Vosa activity. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 You have a Train weight on your van, this means the total weight of van and trailer must not exceed this, are you getting confused with this? My Hymer grosses at 4500kgs, my Train weight is 5500kgs total as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-04-26 9:24 AMSold my 1500kg trailer, about to order a new 750kg Blue line mini............But :-SMy Gross Vehicle weight is 2770kg.........My Gross Train weight is 3500kg..........which leaves 730kg.I have read on another forum that if stopped by the department of transport they just add the two plates together rather than actually weigh the vehicle? :-S................Which means that I could be 20kg over weight on a technicality 8-)Anyone know anymore about this?............I have also read that I can plate the trailer lower myself (?) The answer is to have your trailer plated at 730kg :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Retread24800 - 2012-04-26 1:52 PMThe answer is to have your trailer plated at 730kg :-)That's what I will do ;-).....................but I think its useful to flag up this lucrative little catchall that the DOT appear to have for raising money from the unsuspecting motorist, who thinks he's done the right thing by having his out fit weighed 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_C Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Trailer legislation is certainly a bit of a minefield. VOSA say that it is acceptable to use a trailer with a plated gross weight which would take it over the gross train weight of its towing vehicle, so long as the load carried does not cause the actual weight of the combination to exceed the gross train weight. See: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Horsebox%20Guide%20low%20res.pdf page 18 AndyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Andy_C - 2012-04-26 3:21 PM Trailer legislation is certainly a bit of a minefield. VOSA say that it is acceptable to use a trailer with a plated gross weight which would take it over the gross train weight of its towing vehicle, so long as the load carried does not cause the actual weight of the combination to exceed the gross train weight. AndyC So basically then,they can't do you for being over-weigh..if you're not overweight..? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Andy_C - 2012-04-26 3:21 PM Trailer legislation is certainly a bit of a minefield. VOSA say that it is acceptable to use a trailer with a plated gross weight which would take it over the gross train weight of its towing vehicle, so long as the load carried does not cause the actual weight of the combination to exceed the gross train weight. See: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Horsebox%20Guide%20low%20res.pdf page 18 AndyC Thanks for the link ;-)....................I've sent them an email asking if what I have heard is true, I'll post any reply :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Andy_C - 2012-04-26 3:21 PM Trailer legislation is certainly a bit of a minefield. VOSA say that it is acceptable to use a trailer with a plated gross weight which would take it over the gross train weight of its towing vehicle, so long as the load carried does not cause the actual weight of the combination to exceed the gross train weight. See: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Horsebox%20Guide%20low%20res.pdf page 18 AndyC As above, unless the regs have changed fairly recently, GTW is an actual, laden, weight. So, it is for you to demonstrate that your outfit (van + trailer) does not exceed the plated GTW for the van. The best way to do that is at a weighbridge, making sure you get the printed ticket showing the GTW is within its limit. In the absence of that, it may be that VOSA are entitled to use the combined MAMs. Presented with a weighbridge ticket showing compliance, it would then be for them to prove non-compliance, for which they would have to re-weigh your outfit. But for 20kg? Unlikely, unless you get "The One". :-) However, that is VOSA and UK, and I think you were intending to tow your trailer to Spain? I understand practise in France (I don't know about Spain) is to work to the plated weights, and it is an offence to tow a trailer with a plated weight (irrespective of how heavily loaded within its MAM), that exceeds the difference between the tow vehicle's MAM, and its GTW. This applies to French registered vehicles, but is what the French police know, so for 20kg why risk a dispute? Very unlikely, I accept, but they do carry out odd roadside checks from time to time. Can you not order your trailer with a 730kg plate in lieu of 750kg? After all, it's your dosh. If the running gear is capable of carrying 750kg, 20kg less MAM just equates to a 20kg higher margin of safety. You cannot make DIY changes to the plate, it must be done by the original manufacturer, or someone authorised to do so. So, to stay street legal over the ditch, I think I'd just ask the manufacturer to plate it down by 20kg to 730kg, and then there should be no arguments anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aultymer Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Having read all of the above - I think the question on another thread re 'Why 'A' frame' has been well answered for everyone except those uncritical enough to go to Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric hobson Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Hi, the more I read the more confused I become. I am at present looking at trailers having towed with an a-frame for a number of years. My motorhome has a GVW of 5000kg and a GTW of 6000kg, no problem towing my Corsa. Having visited a Brian James dealer I have been shown a trailer with a gross of 1300kg which will take the car. The weight of the trailer will result in me lowering the gross of the motorhome, no problem. I have then spoken to other dealers. Here is the take from one. If you have a GTW of 6000kg and a towing weight of 1000kg then that is the maximum you can tow. It is not possible to lower your GVW to increase your trailer weight. According to him my only option is a lighter car or to legally down grade the motorhome. He states he is quoting VOSA. Who is right? I feel like just continuing using the a-frame and sod the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric hobson Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 After my last post I spoke to VOSA who said it was not within their remit and put me on to DVLA. Their answer was that so long as I do not exceed my train weight I can reduce the gross of the motorhome to increase the load on the trailer. eg; motorhome weight 4700kg---trailer weight 1300kg--- GTW 6000kg. I would hope I can reduce my motorhome weight below that limit anyway. Apparently if I apply in writing to DVLA they will supply wriiten information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Ordered the trailer :-D.......................they have agreed to replate at 730kg so potential problems solved ;-) One of the purpose's of having the trailer apart from the obvious of carting more kit about, is to turn it into a additional energy pod B-)...............I've briefly discussed the idea with Dave Newel, my idea is to put solar panels on the trailer roof, with either a single 200 amphr battery or 2 x 110 amphr batteries in the trailer to boost our capacity to live off grid ;-)...............anybody else done this? :-S............... The pro's seem to out weigh the con's for us, as we do not have the payload capacity to add this to Horace :-|........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 surely panels better on camper roof......aren't trailers a high theft item. what if you have to park a bit away from camper, wont that mean thick trailing cables with more power drop? that's a question as I don't know..... drop down double bed for guests? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-04-27 4:21 PM surely panels better on camper roof......aren't trailers a high theft item. what if you have to park a bit away from camper, wont that mean thick trailing cables with more power drop? that's a question as I don't know..... drop down double bed for guests? :D Thought of that Eddie but I am too near my payload to add anything else ;-).........As for security I'd chain the trailer to the camper............... the intention is to wire up the camper and trailer with a caravan sockets to feed the wiggles in through the zig unit.............. I'm thinking 2 x 80 watt panels to feed 4 batteries, ie the existing leisure and vehicle batteries plus the additional trailer batteries.................. Also thought of the bed idea ;-).............but at 40 odd inches wide it would be a bit snug as a double with my beer belly (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 my final point: you going to drag this trailer everywhere? your van has managed 20 years without them, and you want to add massive bank of batteries etc....dont make sense to me. I would put a pair of panels on roof, have 2 leisure batteries, and if weight a problem transfer more load to trailer my bill is in the post.....NEXT! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-04-27 4:55 PM my final point: you going to drag this trailer everywhere? The idea is to leave it at Sue's cousin in France...............as we expect to only pop back to the UK for a couple of months in July/August when the sites are at they're most packed and expensive Eddie ;-)............we will spend our time in the UK sponging of friends and family and sorting out servicing MOT's etc :D When on sites I expect the trailer to be as safe as anything can be now days *-)............and we will go out about in just the camper to see stuff, as we can fit most places that don't have height barriers ;-) Funny thing is I expect once its all kitted out with solar panels etc..............It'll probably be worth more than our camper (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-04-27 4:55 PM your van has managed 20 years without them, and you want to add massive bank of batteries etc....dont make sense to me. I would put a pair of panels on roof, have 2 leisure batteries, and if weight a problem transfer more load to trailer my bill is in the post.....NEXT! :-D Very true ;-)......................But as we hope to long term on a small budget, one cost that seems to be going up regardless is fuel *-).................I hope to solve the diesel problem by only going to Spain/France once a year...................for 10 months :D..... so we will use only a little more fuel than we will next month on holiday... The other fuel is electric.........pitches are cheaper if you don't need EHU......so if I can become selfsufficent? ;-)........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-04-27 5:09 PM It'll probably be worth more than our camper (lol) (lol) Indeed.... :D did not realise you are contemplating full timing.. that's a bit different :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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