BGD Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 We might only be on a flight of fancy perhaps, but.......... A local dealer here in Spain has currently got in stock a secondhand "Dethleffs Avantage T6501B Elegance". It's a low-profile, on the old-model Ducato, with the 2.8 "maxi-power" 146CV engine, 5 speed manual gearbox. Not sure of the year (maybe 4 or 5 years old?), done only 29,000 kms though, and looks mint. A qusteion - has anyone here got one/had one of these, or maybe one similar? If so, any good/bad points about them please........ Many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Hi, I nearly bought one in 2007 on Ford chassis,seemed quite a nice van, good interior finish,........ what year, service history and damp test record? just had a look on mobile.de, quite a big van can you drive over 3500kg? have a look and cross reference spanish dealers price :-D one 2004 on mobile.de has a yellow emissions sticker, not sure if this of concern to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Hi Bruce Had a smaller Burstner on the same engine 2005/6. To be honest, I was a bit underwhelmed at its claimed 146HP, and think our present van (roughly equivalent size/weight) of a claimed 130HP, a livelier drive. I got about 25MPG pretty well consistently, if that's any help. I'm not implying there is anything wrong with that engine, and plenty were installed in (if I remember, it was IVECO badged), IVECO vans. Just that, from my own experience, it wasn't anything to get excited about. Can't comment on the Dethleffs, which I know is what you really want to know about, but few folk on here will know the engine as it wasn't brought into the UK market by Fiat and nor was it, so far as I know, ever offered as an option on RHD vans. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Hi BGD I found a spanish site with 2004 model @ EUR22,000. Just for comparison UK offering http://www.moranmotorhomes.co.uk/motorhome_information/4f688eff1cb5b/Dethleffs-Advantage-T6501 As the 2003 model was on the 3300kg chassis it would be prudent to check the payload, especially with a long rear overhang & main storage is below rear fixed bed. Standard model had the 2.0litre engine so some payload already sacrificed. Current model weights are:- mass in running order 3086 kg max. authorised weight 3499 kg payload 413 kg Although current model may have additional equipment, I suspect payload will be your main considersation, as Dethleffs build quality is usually regarded to be at the premium end of the market. Edit correction. 2004 model was on the 4500kg chassis & had 2.8engine option, with a good payload. http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=MHSearch&op=display_results&mhid=83&Manufacturer=Dethleffs&Model=Advantage T6501 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Here's a link to the actual beast. We might pop down to the dealer on Wednesday, just to have a little look at it.......... http://caravanasferrero.com/foto_ocasion_caravanas_autocaravanas_ferrero.php?view=thumbnailList&category=68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Not the same model as is a 2008 Fortero model. not the same as you are looking at obviously but the Dethleffs build quality is great. Furniture is built to last and Practical Motorhome survey found 100% satisfaction on secondhand Dethleffs in their 2010 or (11) survey. We are really happy with the quality. Ours is on a Ford so can't compare that sorry. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 echoing what Flicker said, we discounted the ford model because of the weight. I'm a diabetic and restricted to 3500kg the payload was far worse then the Adria and Euramobil also on our short list. Must admit they are a well finished van and was nearly seduced by the eye candy...but heavy man.... If Brian says it is under powered (combined with heavy construction) that would also be the kiss of death for me..Handling probably suspect as well. That it was not imported into UK another alarm bell has started ringing...and finally. there are not many on mobile.de so probably not that popular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 In response to Brian's opinion on the engine, I would agree that, in comparison to the 2.2 140hp Ford I currently have, it is a bit "agricultural", (that's engine progress for you - EGRs, DPFs, but at least a bit more refinement ;-) ) but the 2.8JTD has done sterling service in a multitude of motorcaravans. I can't vouch for the 146hp version, but the 128hp fitted to my previous 3850kg Rapido A Class was more than adequate, BUT, that van had the (optional) lower 5th gear factory fitted, and that (minor point) made a significant difference to the flexibility in driving, with the ability to go into top gear somewhat earlier, and to maintain progress on Motorway inclines more easily. (My previous 'van had one of the early incarnations of the same 5-speed box with the standard (higher) 5th gear). My understanding is that a good few converters ordered the base with the option, but it is possible to retro-fit (at a cost, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Many thanks for all who've replied - all very useful stuff indeed! I've not been down to the Dealers yet to see this MH, as it's a Bank Holiday here today...but we think we may well pop down there tomorrow... On the information supplied on their website, it does tick almost all the boxes for us, and an added advantage is that I could do a part-ex deal with them on our current dinosaur MH, as it was from them that we bought it getting on for 4 years ago. Buying /selling vehicles privately in Spain is quite a complicated process; and also I couldn't afford to buy another van unless/until I have sold our present one. Don't know what the max weight of it is yet....I had assumed the "usual" under 3.5 tonnes.......as it's a single wheel rear axle, but we'll see. Maybe some MH's with higher max weights still run with a single rear wheel rather than twin-wheel or tag axle? Bit concerned about what looks like a long rear overhang between rear axle and scooter rack. Our 125cc scooter is about 115 kgs, and that on top of the weight of the rack, multiplied by distance behind axle would put a LOT of additional weight on that axle. If we were seriously interested, I'd want to get it to a weighbridge to check actual weights. (Having said that, MH owners over here don't worry about "picky" stuff like being a bit overweight, as no-one ever checks!). On the engine power, anything (and I mean anything) would be an utter revelation to us compared to our present 95 CV, 2.5TD, 1992 vintage MH. I'm really not at all bothered about whether the engine is (was) best in class, or just a " relatively" slower chugger).....so long as it's drive train has got a reputation for being a reliable workhorse, with no history of big problems, then I'd be chuffed to bits if I could get from zero to 60mph any faster than over a long weekend. It being the "old" model Ducato is actually I feel potentially better for us........well proven, millions of them around, lots of spares, and likely to be easier to at least partially self maintain (which I like to do and am competent to do) compared to the very latest, computerised everything, starship technology vans. I'd heard that Dethleffs have a rep for good build quality...comments here seem to support that. So I think we'll see what it looks like in the flesh.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 BGD - 2012-05-01 9:54 AM Don't know what the max weight of it is yet....I had assumed the "usual" under 3.5 tonnes.......as it's a single wheel rear axle, but we'll see. Maybe some MH's with higher max weights still run with a single rear wheel rather than twin-wheel or tag axle? The "single wheel rear axle" is a red herring in this instance, as the Dethleffs motorhome is FWD and only RWD motorhomes will have a rear axle with twinned wheels. X244 Ducatos with two axles could go up to 4000kg MAM - over that required an AL-KO chassis with a tandem rear-axle configuration. Ducato X244 versions of the Advantage 6501 were marketed from 2004 through 2006, with 2.3litre, 2.8litre or 2.8litre "Power" motors. It was constructed on a Ducato 15 chassis, so its MAM will be no higher than 3500kg. My 2005 French motorhome magazines suggest a payload of 615kg (with 2.8litre and, presumably, a 3500kg MAM), but that may well be 'optimistic'. Nick Fisher (euroserv) commented on the "Power" version of Iveco's 2.8litre motor as follows: "Iveco offered this engine at 146hp for £1400 extra and they did not bother with the cooling and breathing part of the job, they just bolted a bigger turbo on and it used a hell of a lot more fuel. Genius." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 chris - 2012-05-01 7:54 AMNot the same model as is a 2008 Fortero model. not the same as you are looking at obviously but the Dethleffs build quality is great. Furniture is built to last and Practical Motorhome survey found 100% satisfaction on secondhand Dethleffs in their 2010 or (11) survey. We are really happy with the quality. Ours is on a Ford so can't compare that sorry.Chris Hmmm, My Dethleffs toe-dip was with 2007 A class Globebus bought almost new with 2,500 miles on the clock and with the toilet / cooker never used. I test drove it and other than some cooker and bathroom door noise it seemed OK. But, when it came to living with it, and the cooker and door noise fettled, it became apparent that build quality was, at best, average. It rattled and squeaked and had obviously been built in a rush. Few screws were driven in straight and there was just a sense of building everything to ensure a minimum standard of safety and aesthetic appeal. In other words, it was simply made to look as if it was solid and I can see how the average motorhome journo sitting in the back for 10 minutes might be sucked in. I spent months (on and off) stripping out the furniture and fittings and building it back in to a standard where it was actually solid - and didn't rattle / groan / squeak. I also too the time to ensure all the normally out of sight bits were neat and tidy. Build quality on this occasion was far from great, but probably adequate to satisfy the expectations of the usual consumer base. I don't think Dethleffs are particularly bad, my estimation would be they are distinctly average in a sea of mediocrity. When published in the mainstream UK motorhoming press, I think it's probably wise to treat anything that you read with a massive pinch of salt. Don't want to put Bruce off but wouldn't want him to go in with the misconception that build quality is a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Just make sure payload adequate, take note of Derek's reference to this models fuel consumption. Have a PROPER test drive, listen to know excuses. What Crinkley says makes sense, the Fortero we considered looked very flash, to flash in fact, but when we looked into it, it was not a practical van in 3500kg guise, whereas the Euramobil even with double floor construction was........ You are unlikely to be able to carry a scooter I would think again.. if it had been a successful model, you would expect to see a fair few on mobile.de..There are hardly any. If it smells like a lemon...Looks like a lemon...then it probably is a...............Be careful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Update - saw the MH this morning. Cracking van. Utterly cracking van. Ticks all the boxes for us, but........ The MAM is 3,500 kgs, so the rear axle would definitely be overloaded with a scooter on the already fitted scooter rack which sits a LONG way aft of the rear axle. (The roof mounted air con unit is also sitting aft of the rear axle, and there's a monster 210 Ah battery also located right at the rear of the MH in the boot, all further adding weight.) On it's own possibly not a complete deal-breaker, as no-one in Spain worries about such "minor" technical issues........but would have definitely wanted some air-rides or similar to stiffen/uprate the rear suspension. In a brief price-haggling process we couldn't get anywhere near to common ground in terms of "my MH plus how much cash on top for your van". We ended the ritual dance with my top offer, but we were still €6,500 euros adrift of each other. The process wasn't helped by the fact that the Dealer has only had this van in for 1 week as yet...maybe he'll soften if it's still unsold at the current initial €36,450 asking price in some months time.....we will keep an eye on it. So unless the Motorhome Fairy drops an additional 6,500 extra euros in my lap in the coming days/weeks on top of what I was prepared to pay out of my own savings, a swop ain't gonna happen. Boo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 trailer for the bike is one solution, a more suitable and efficient van a better one... Probably both overvaluing your own vans..He is definitely...cheaper on mobile.de Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-05-02 4:10 PM trailer for the bike is one solution, a more suitable and efficient van a better one... Probably both overvaluing your own vans..He is definitely...cheaper on mobile.de I think you're right.................we're in no hurry to change anyway, it was simply that one van that caught my eye. What we're plotting is to advertise our current MH privately, if it sells then we obviously have a lot more cash to waive at any prospective purchase, but if it don't we'll just keep on enjoying it.............we've got another 4 week chug planned for June, up to mid France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Best time of year to sell is here, and that sounds like a better plan...Good luck! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.