Barryd999 Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 Not sure if its relavent but I just checked the weather and its going to freeze tonight so I went outside to drain the van down (cant believe I have to do this in May!) and when I undid the bung on the outside for the hot tank quite a lot of white grit came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Barry if you ring this guy Phil Mcnally 07917 138561 he is one of the most experienced motorhome electricians in the north of England is City and Guilds qualified, he will come to your house or will meet you any where of your choice. He has been involved with motorhome servicing for many many years. You can mention my name if you like but you wont be disappointed Roland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 If you had a leak, it is very probable by now, with all your testing, there would be signs of damp either in, or under the m/home ( I guess ?) If you are losing pressure, and the pump is re starting, I come back to the none return valve. I don't know the internal workings of the non return valve, but I assume there is a diaphram which seals against the backflow. I would guess that maybe the diaphram is partly glued by muck and not allowing pumped flow, whilst a little muck is stopping a seal enough to allow the back pressure to leak back to the tank. Giving the tank a clean, and running the pump with clean water at the same time might break the stuck seal and blow the much past the valve. I dont know if the the return valve is servicable ? Rgds OOPs more or less echoed Brians remarks, I should read the thread more carefully *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 rolandrat - 2012-05-05 7:55 PM Barry if you ring this guy Phil Mcnally 07917 138561 he is one of the most experienced motorhome electricians in the north of England is City and Guilds qualified, he will come to your house or will meet you any where of your choice. He has been involved with motorhome servicing for many many years. You can mention my name if you like but you wont be disappointed Roland. Thanks Isnt he the guy from Rhino Installs who used to be at Leisuretech? Hes a good 100 miles from us if it is but I agree, he knows his stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 rolandrat - 2012-05-05 7:55 PM Barry if you ring this guy Phil Mcnally 07917 138561 he is one of the most experienced motorhome electricians in the north of England is City and Guilds qualified, he will come to your house or will meet you any where of your choice. He has been involved with motorhome servicing for many many years. You can mention my name if you like but you wont be disappointed Roland. Thanks Isnt he the guy from Rhino Installs who used to be at Leisuretech? Hes a good 100 miles from us if it is but I agree, he knows his stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Measure the voltage across your pressure switch with the pump running, it should be all but Zero volts, if not then you have dirty contacts and it is dropping the volts. Definetly a volt drop problem in the wiring somehwhere from descriptions and info given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Yes he is ex Leisure Tech and travelling long distances to customers isn't a problem to him, a friend of mine lives in Barrow in Furness and he has been up to sort him out. I know there is sound advice being given on here but I would first try to find out why there is a voltage drop to the pump first then follow on with other suggestions. Micro switches have been known to arc across causing problems but its always handy to have an identical spare when you start to pull one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 6, 2012 Author Share Posted May 6, 2012 Today I bought my own multi tester (progress? :-D ) I then made up a cable from an old hoover about five or six metres long. I wired crocodile clips to one end and then chopped off the cable coming out of the tank from the pump and wired it to the hoover cable. I then clipped this directly onto the battery. There was an improvement but not massively. The voltage at the battery was 12.6 amps and ll.6 where the two wires were joined at the pump. It was just 10.6 yesterday at the pump. I guess I can allow a little bit of loss for the way I bodged the wires on the hoover cable. I would say based on this there is definately a voltage issue. I then looked at the wiring diagram in the manual and I might as well have been written in Swahili. I think this is about as far as I can go on my own so its either report the findings back to the chap who fitted the pump and see if he is up for a wiring job or phone Phil or some other electrical expert. I still reckon a cleaning job is on the cards for the pipes and tank but have no idea what to use. Thanks again for all the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 If you need to remove sediment from the water tank you can either flush it out or pump it out but somehow you will have to agitate it so it might mean removing the tank altogether and turning it upside down. Your boiler will also need flushing out but whatever you use it will have to be something that won't leave any fresh water being contaminated afterwards. You could try a compressed air line to blast it through if all else fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 You say that you now have 11.6 volts to the pump, an increase of 1 volt so there could still be some resistance. I wouldn't mind betting that one of the micro switches has failed on the insulation or one of the wires in one of the taps has come adrift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 6, 2012 Author Share Posted May 6, 2012 rolandrat - 2012-05-06 9:22 PM You say that you now have 11.6 volts to the pump, an increase of 1 volt so there could still be some resistance. I wouldn't mind betting that one of the micro switches has failed on the insulation or one of the wires in one of the taps has come adrift. Thanks again. But this was running a direct wire from the battery straight to the pump and all taps are effected so I wouldnt have thought one wire coming adrift on one tap would effect them all but I really am in the dark so you might be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Barry although you have run a wire direct to the pump unless you have disconnected all the other wires in situ there will still be a continuous circuit that will include a possible dodgy micro switch. I would bite the bullet and get hold of Phil or someone with similar experience to pinpoint your problem or you will go round in a cotinuous circle of "ifs or buts". Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Todds at Preston carry a range of micro switches in their accessory shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Did you get your low presure resolved Barry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 rolandrat - 2012-05-06 9:22 PM You say that you now have 11.6 volts to the pump, an increase of 1 volt so there could still be some resistance. I wouldn't mind betting that one of the micro switches has failed on the insulation or one of the wires in one of the taps has come adrift. If Barry's motorhome has a submersible water-pump with a Whale pressure-sensitive switch (which seems to be the case), then I don't think tap micro-switches should be a factor. As I understand that arrangement, when a tap is opened the pressure-drop in the water system is recognised by the Whale switch that then activates the water-pump that will then continue to operate until the tap is closed, when the Whale switch will recognise the rise in water pressure and switch off the pump. Is that not correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I mentioned it as a friend of mine has an on going problem with a micro switch in one of his taps that caused a pressure drop, he has recognised fractured insulation and he said that when he buys a replacement he is going to use some insulation resin. At the end of the day you can only pass on what limited knowledge you have of similar experiences hoping it will help in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 All help appreciated thanks Im starting to think that its a semi blockage somewhere and quite possibly the non return valve partly shut. I think there may be two valves. One at the pressure switch and one at the tank. It could also be crud in the joints. The chap who fitted the pump is going to pick up some bits today and a new pressure switch as well as some stuff to clean out the crud. I just dont know if the voltage issue is the main culpret as whilst there was a difference in flow when I connected it directly to the battery it wasnt significant. Maybe its both the voltage and a blockage. The fact that when you drain down and fill up again and the hot splutters and is very difficult to get going perhaps suggests a partial blockage somewhere. Personally I would love to just rip the whole lot out and put in a system that is bullet proof and more robust. We use our van a hell of a lot and it seems to me that some components in motorhomes are not designed for long term use. Or it could just be me getting fed up with stuff not working properly! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Barry, I have noticed your posting on another forum,has your problem been resolved yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 rolandrat - 2012-05-10 12:27 PM Barry, I have noticed your posting on another forum,has your problem been resolved yet? Hi. No not yet. Its currently in the garage getting some other stuff done before I hand it back to the chap to try and clear the blockage (if that is what it is). I did go pretty global on the forums with this one as it just seemed impossible to resolve and now I am armed with a lot of info so hopefully between myself and the chap who fitted the pump we will get to the bottom of it shortly. will of course update the outcome when I have one. Not long now though. D Day to the next adventure is the end of this month! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 A good source of information can be got from The Motorcaravan Manual whose author is John Wickersham. It contains every aspect of motorhome ownership and one topic is water supply which could answer most of the questions that you have been seeking on here. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Has anyone heard of a product called Truma Flush or something like that? My motorhome guy has got some new bits to fit but has suggested that the system needs flushing as quite a lot of gunk came out of the hot tank when I last drained it so he wants me to try this stuff first. Cant find anything about it online. Is this to discale the tank and pipes as I have heard wine vinigar can be used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Hi Barry I think this is what product he means http://www.caravantech-shop.co.uk/products/water/water-carriers-and-tanks-hoses/truma-aquastar-1-and-2 Should be available from most Caravan / Motorhome accessory shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 flicka - 2012-05-16 9:59 PM Hi Barry I think this is what product he means http://www.caravantech-shop.co.uk/products/water/water-carriers-and-tanks-hoses/truma-aquastar-1-and-2 Should be available from most Caravan / Motorhome accessory shops. Thanks for that. IT aint cheep though! Bet its a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Barryd999 - 2012-05-16 10:36 PM flicka - 2012-05-16 9:59 PM Hi Barry I think this is what product he means http://www.caravantech-shop.co.uk/products/water/water-carriers-and-tanks-hoses/truma-aquastar-1-and-2 Should be available from most Caravan / Motorhome accessory shops. Thanks for that. IT aint cheep though! Bet its a waste of time. Do I have to repeat myself Barry. *-) Buy a job lot of the cheapest Cola and put enough in your tank to allow the pump to pump it through the pipework and let it stand for an hour or two. It will clean anything. When you drain it out even your driveway will be spotless. :D If it cleans built up gunge in waste water tanks then it will work in the fresh water system. It is non-toxic, cheap and easily flushed out. This is NOT a wind up. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Much of the difficulty that’s been experienced trying to resolve this problem is due to it not being addressed systematically from the beginning. Barry’s original posting revealed that, for 4 years, his 1996 Kon-Tiki’s water system had worked well, providing good water pressure at all taps and at the shower-head. After a winter lay-off, when the motorhome was brought back into service, the water pressure proved to be poor. Barry’s Kon-Tiki’s water system comprises a submerged water-pump and a (Whale?) pressure-sensitive switch. This is a very simple arrangement and fault-finding, one might think, should be straightforward. It should have been simple to have confirmed whether or not there was a problem with the original water-pump but, despite the original pump plainly being still in working order, it was replaced. Tonyishuk’s immediate response to the original posting was to diagnose a kink in the water pipework (a well-recognised problem with the type of flexible hoses used in older motorhomes/caravans) or a blockage in the pipework or in a non-return valve. There was a long digression regarding the pump not obtaining sufficient voltage, but there’s no real reason to think the voltage might differ from when the motorhome went into hibernation. I suggest the following checking sequence: a) Confirm what pump has now been fitted as, if it’s not got adequate output capacity for the motorhome's water system, the water pressure will never be acceptable. b) Confirm that, when the pump runs, there’s plenty of water pressure ‘downstream’ of it at the outlet of the pressure-sensitive switch. If there’s a kink in the pipework, or a blockage of some sort in a non-return valve or in the pressure-sensitive switch itself, this check should identify it. c) If the water pressure is high at the pressure-sensitive switch’s outlet, then the problem is further down the line and a hose-kink or a blockage will still be the likely culprit. The Kon-Tiki’s water-pressure used to be OK, then suddenly was not. The pressure is low at cold taps as well as hot, which points to the problem being singular and simple. Essentially (as Barry said on 5 May) something is restricting the flow of water in the pipework before it begins to feed to the water heater. There’s no point in spending time, effort and (in the case of Truma’s Aquastar product) significant money flushing the water system if the pump is under-powered, a hose is kinked, or a switch or valve needs replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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