Importing a Motorhome

[Derek Uzzell]

JudgeMental - 2012-06-05 7:32 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-06-05 6:36 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-06-05 9:47 AM

 

...I know its not intentional and your aim is to be helpful, but getting bogged down in negativity is really not helpful to someone who may be nervous about the process

 

 

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

 

So your the wise man are you....Lord give me strength. Seeing problems when there are none that cannot be easily overcome...Pathetic *-)

 

When I imported my Hobby motorhome from Germany, I was sufficiently wise not to have committed myself to holiday arrangements that ignored the possibility that the DVLA might demand to physically inspect the vehicle prior to UK registration and that it might not be straightforward to arrange that inspection quickly.

 

I was wise enough too to realise that, when submitting the imported motorhome for inspection, if it failed to comply with the technical requirements that were clearly defined in the DVLA's importing guidance documentation (eg. that the vehicle must have a speedometer with an mph scale) the inspector would probably pick this up.

 

At a time when it was widely reported that the DVLA were making random checks of self-imported motorhomes, if my imported motorhome had been found not to comply with the DVLA's requirements, I like to think I would also have had the wisdom (or at least not had the arrogance) to have not whined about 'DVLA postcode lotteries'. Nor would I have gloated that, although the DVLA inspector had picked up my import's kmh-only speedometer, he had overlooked its right-dipping headlights.

 

If the scenario I've just mentioned had applied to me, I would have felt it necessary to accept the word "fool" as an appropriate character description.

 

It may well be that many of the risks involved in importing a motorhome from abroad can be overcome or minimised but, to do so involves recognising that such risks exist. Mel Eastburn's importing guide was 10 pages long and did not sweep potential negatives under the carpet - risks were made clear and how best to deal with them.

 

Privately importing a motorhome from abroad is an unusual thing to do and, in my view, needs unusual incentives to justify it. Buying a LHD vehicle and importing it into the UK's RHD vehicle marketplace does not automatically 'save money' compared to buying a RHD vehicle. You don't 'save money' by buying a bottle of white wine instead of a dearer bottle of red - the two are different. The valid comparison is to buy a RHD motorhome abroad at a significantly lower price than buying the same vehicle in the UK (this has not been mentioned in this thread, but some forum members have successfully managed it) when a true monetary saving can be made and there's the potential to avoid the heavy financial hit that's likely when it subsequently comes time to try to offload a LHD vehicle in this country.

 

Another option - again not mentioned - is to get a specialist (eg. Bundesvan) to handle the importing process, which should reduce financial vulnerability and remove any insurance-related risks. The buyer will pay for the service, but the hassle should be considerably less.

 

Regarding VAT, German motorhome dealers may well insist on a UK buyer paying VAT at the German rate, refunding the VAT amount to the buyer once proof has ben provided that UK VAT has been paid on the vehicle. In such a case the UK buyer will need to have allowed funding to cover temporarily paying two lots of VAT. But it's hard to see how paying VAT on an imported new motorhome can be avoided legitimately.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Just set out with the understanding that you will will be asked to bring the van in for an inspection, after you try and register it at DVLA office (if not you are lucky)

 

For inspection: headlights/speedo/ fog light will have to comply. again (if not you are lucky)

 

Why pay an agent probably half the savings you can make (they are not a charity*-)) If jittery regards driving a few hours to port on 3rd party insurance...... just get dealer to drive van to port for you on their trade plates.

 

 

2007 Euramobil was £45K (RHD) here, £32 K (LHD) Belgium. I used it for 4 years and got £28K in PX. so 4 years use, deprecating 4K. if I had bought the UK version how much would I have lost... *-) 8-)

 

difference not so good last year as exchange rate poor but around 7-8k (still better in my pocket!)

 

I have no interest in RHD we holiday almost exclusively in Europe..

[rupert123]

JudgeMental - 2012-06-06 10:00 AM

 

Just set out with the understanding that you will will be asked to bring the van in for an inspection, after you try and register it at DVLA office (if not you are lucky)

 

For inspection: headlights/speedo/ fog light will have to comply. again (if not you are lucky)

 

Why pay an agent probably half the savings you can make (they are not a charity*-)) If jittery regards driving a few hours to port on 3rd party insurance...... just get dealer to drive van to port for you on their trade plates.

 

 

2007 Euramobil was £45K (RHD) here, £32 K (LHD) Belgium. I used it for 4 years and got £28K in PX. so 4 years use, deprecating 4K. if I had bought the UK version how much would I have lost... *-) 8-)

 

difference not so good last year as exchange rate poor but around 7-8k (still better in my pocket!)

 

I have no interest in RHD we holiday almost exclusively in Europe..

 

Eddie Derek is correct, as I have pointed out before, and your figures are somewhat biased. It would be interesting to see an exact breakdown of the costs of you latest van, if you are willing to give them. You do not say how much discount could have been negoitiated on the Euromobile if bought in the UK, quite a lot I suspect, and fail to mention the additional costs of buying in Europe. Now you may take the risk of driving around with no insurance, ok third party, but pretty much the same thing, others including me will not. The cost alone of fetching the vehicle must mount up and if anything goes wrong another problem. OK you can fit this in with a holiday but some cannot and who in their right mind would drive around in Europe for a few days on holiday with third party. Personally although we to have always spent the majority of our time in Europe I still prefer RHD, not really sure why I just do. I would also point out that you had no choice anyway but going back to dealer as no one in the UK wanted to know about your imported LHD van. I fully accept you think your way is best but others, me included, have doubts, and I have seen no proof it is really cost effective and I have looked believe me. I have always managed to sell my UK bought vans in the UK and have always negotiated a good discount on a new one so for me the small savings and potential for trouble are not worth the bother. All this is of course a personal view so please do not take offence, but it comes from years of importing cars from europe and Japan have seen all the problems that can occur, you have been lucky but someone else may not be and it is correct that people point out the potential pitfulls.

[lennyhb]

JudgeMental - 2012-06-05 10:04 PM

 

Perfect example of why I wanted to hold fire before answering *-)

 

Cloud cuckoo land springs to mind........ Who is going to sell you a van free of VAT in the EU

 

Brought ours VAT free in Belgium.

[Brian Kirby]

JudgeMental - 2012-06-05 9:47 AM

 

I asked Dave for specific questions, as I did not want to get bogged down in detail if he was not serious...nor did I know how much knowledge he already has...and still don't

 

I have imported on VIN 4 times. twice with NFU Mutual. twice with Safeguard. never had a problem with the one month period. last year I was delayed by DVLA inspection, but if it had gone over the 30 days. all that would have happened is policy would be cancelled and new policy issued *-)

 

when you go to DVLA to register a imported van you will probably be asked to make an appointment to bring it in for an inspection. A to see that it is a NEW vehicle (if new) and B the headlights are RHD dipping ,speedo reads MPH not KPH. and fog light on our side.

 

I paid some one to change the Fiat headlights, after watching it I will do it myself next time as very easy once you know how..20 minutes tops.ditto the speedo.my van has fogs both sides but before I either added anothr fog myself or got dealer to do it....

 

I know its not intentional and your aim is to be helpful, but getting bogged down in negativity is really not helpful to someone who may be nervous about the process

 

To be honest, I think this is as much about personality as about importing. Some of us just go for the details first, others let them follow. I'm a detail bod, as I suspect is Derek. You tend to work the other way round. :-)

 

However, now we know what Dave is after, the answer is, in general terms, much simpler, so you were wise to ask. Standard van conversions are fairly easy to get "street legal" in that all the bits required are standard manufacturer's parts. Different set of problems obtaining RHD headlamps for an A Class Hymer, for example, than for a Ducato. So yes, it should be easy to get the local Fiat commercial guy to obtain a pair of UK spec headlamps (you'll have to make sure what version is fitted, as I believe there are several). VIN should enable to dealer to identify the correct parts, though he may have to look-up the van as a "visitor" since it won't yet be UK registered. Standard rear lights as well, so easy on that score, leaving just the speedo to swap. Speedo is probably a dealer job, changing lights should be fairly easy DIY.

It was the case until a couple of years back that the DVLA office were supposed to get the van checked by VOSA, but it was at their discretion as to whether they were satisfied the legally required mods had been made. Many did not bother, and consequently many vans that did not comply were UK registered in non-compliant form. My understanding is that the option has now been withdrawn, and DVLA are instructed to refer all personal imports to VOSA for verification that they comply. So, to that extent, I think the element of "luck" over referral to VOSA has gone.

 

I hadn't realised Retread was referring to importing into France. Inevitably different procedures, as different country. He was also importing KPH LHD vans to a KPH LHD country, so no complications over lights or speedos, as with KPH LHD vans into MPH RHD UK. So, not quite the same thing.

 

Re VAT. UK VAT is payable on the import unless (from memory) it has been registered in the country of origin, and driven more that 6,000 miles. After 6,000 miles it is accepted that VAT has been paid in the country of registration, and no UK VAT is payable. In theory, a new van can be bought ex VAT from the foreign dealer. This must be shown on the sales invoice and the cost is then converted to £ at HM Customs and Revenue daily rate of exchange for the appropriate day, and a UK VAT invoice will be sent to you. In practise, it seems a number of people then evaded UK VAT by not submitting the invoice leaving the foreign dealer unable to prove that VAT had been paid in UK and leaving them liable for VAT at their national rate. So, some now sell with VAT included, but invoice the VAT and the van separately (or some variation on this) taking a payment for the VAT which they hold until evidence of UK VAT payment is passed back to them, or sell with VAT included leaving you to claim back the foreign VAT, and pay instead the UK VAT.

 

DVLA produce (or did) a very informative pack for personal importers that explains with great clarity the procedure, and supplies all necessary forms to complete the process. If you still want to proceed I'd suggest getting this pack before going much further so you know what you have to do. Not complicated, but has to be followed carefully. Otherwise, just basic admin.

 

My understanding is that the insurers are using a bit of a workaround that does not comply with their FSA and MOB obligations. The requirement, as I have understood it, is to submit the details of all motor insurance policies they write to the Motor Insurers Database, which is what all authorities, including the police, check to verify current insurance. My information is that they are obliged to do this within 7 days of issuing the insurance. Foreign registrations can be entered, but the number of fields on the database is insufficient for a VIN, so the insurance cannot be entered until registration is complete and the UK reg no issued. So, in order to give 30 days grace, they are taking a risk by issuing an insurance cover note and not confirming issue within the prescribed period. However, that is broadly their risk that they decide to take. I understand this is why other insurers will not give insurance on this basis.

 

I would only add that this insurance can have no validity outside the UK, as cover notes are valid only in UK.

 

That is the situation as I have understood it hitherto. If anyone knows of changes to the above rules I'd be grateful if they'd post saying what is different so we are all as up-to-date as possible.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Rupert my figures are perfectly correct.....Do you not think that I tried to get a discount on the Euramobil here first..........I also simply out of interest called 3 Adria UK dealers...would not budge one cent, maybe throw in an awning!lol. The most hilarious was a southern agent who had no vans on demo and also would not budge. You can get between 10-17% discount from a German dealer..you just have to shop around

 

why some keep on making an issue out of the few hours drive home is laughable ..IF you dont want to do it DONT! less of the criticism insinuating we are stupid for doing it...I really could not care less

 

When young I drove on 3rd party for many years...I also worked in risk assessment, so I have learnt not to be a worry puss.

 

these firms have drivers collecting and delivering vans all over Europe....I would guess for them to drive van to port for you 200-400€?

 

If no interest in LHD its hardly worth considering importing :-D

 

 

 

 

[Retread24800]

Must admit that I used the drive From Germany as part of a Holiday Back into France via Alsace and the Voges, Really the 'delivery' trip was a bonus but maybe I tend to be positive in my view point.

Slightly suspicious about the VAT question tho' does the OP know of a legal means to avoid VAT in the UK? because German VAT is @ only19% showing a £325 saving on his expected purchase. ;-)

with a 25% saving due to currency shenanigans on his expected purchase (£8000) the purchase and professional fitting of a speedo in the UK should not dent his budget too far similarly non standard ie UK lights even for a Hymer B Class @ £400 ea could well be supplied and Fitted by the German dealer as part of the deal and at 'trade'?

Transit/Ducato units are available RHD over here and again could be supplied and fitted as part of the deal.

As for Cover notes and VIN nos, My insurance co would not issue any documentation until advised of the German Registration No as already said. I did not look into the possibility that had I been able to supply some proof of 3rd party or better insurance at the time of registration in Germany then the cost of the state insurance might have been avoided, has any one been down that route other than a dealer with trade insurance? Why should a policy be invalid in Europe? I was under the impression that most holiday makers on the Mainland of Europe, with UK vans, were insured with UK Companies!

 

[Brian Kirby]

Retread24800 - 2012-06-07 10:11 PM..................Why should a policy be invalid in Europe? I was under the impression that most holiday makers on the Mainland of Europe, with UK vans, were insured with UK Companies!

Apologies, my statement was not clear. It is the temporary cover note I was intending to refer to as having no validity outside UK, not the policy itself. However, that is a bit of a moot point, since it is a requirement of driving abroad that proof of valid national insurance is carried, and a cover note does not provide that proof, so, in effect, you can't go! Cover notes should contain a statement to that effect. Only the full certificate of insurance has validity outside UK, and complies with EU insurance requirements as proof of insurance in other EU states. I do not know what the consequences might be following an accident, if the only proof of insurance offered were a temporary cover note, but at the very least complications with considerable delay would seem highly likely.

[lennyhb]

JudgeMental - 2012-06-07 4:49 PM

 

Rupert my figures are perfectly correct.....Do you not think that I tried to get a discount on the Euramobil here first..........I also simply out of interest called 3 Adria UK dealers...would not budge one cent, maybe throw in an awning!lol. The most hilarious was a southern agent who had no vans on demo and also would not budge. You can get between 10-17% discount from a German dealer..you just have to shop around

 

why some keep on making an issue out of the few hours drive home is laughable ..IF you dont want to do it DONT! less of the criticism insinuating we are stupid for doing it...I really could not care less

 

When young I drove on 3rd party for many years...I also worked in risk assessment, so I have learnt not to be a worry puss.

 

these firms have drivers collecting and delivering vans all over Europe....I would guess for them to drive van to port for you 200-400€?

 

If no interest in LHD its hardly worth considering importing :-D

 

 

Wasting your breath Eddie you know Rupert likes to try and justify spending 10 grand more to buy in the UK.

All I know is I brought a full UK spec RHD van in Belgium and saved over 10 grand even after taking a 6 grand hit when exchange rates went from 1.45 to 1.25 between ordering & taking delivery.

 

Hymer UK quoted 54k for a similar spec before adding extras which totaled 3k in Belgium 5K in the UK plus a inflated delivery charge of £1500 (Hymer dealers throughout Europe charge 500€ & some are a lot further than the UK) that totals 60.5k when the exchange rate was 1.45 /£ I paid 47k when the rate had dropped to 1.25/£.

 

Costs involved, £5 in phone calls a few emails to purchase, trip over to pick it up shared with my mate & his wife as they were picking up their van on the same day so cost us including a night in a hotel, fuel, ferry crossing for car & van approx £230.

 

Previously I brought a caravan in Germany and saved 38% UK price 13.5k I paid 8.4k .

 

To me it's a no brainier buying in the UK is just throwing money away.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I know Lenny, its a complete waste of time...some incapable of listening to common sense. Your situation unusual as its hard to get RHD vans unless dealer gets his hands on a canceled order.....Although there have been quite a few RHD Globecars around recently.

 

i emailed German dealer this evening and was told within an hour: Delivery to Calais £440.

 

They have the same 2012 van as mine for £31000. Lower spec van in UK £44,000 both before negotiation, both including VAT, and good luck with any negotiations over here!lol

 

Importing cost: including flight/fuel/ferry/ lights/speedo etc..... approx £2000 plus £440 for the nervous among us to cover the non existent insurance issue *-)

 

Happy to help anyone through the process...

[tomag]

Hi Eddy where are you looking at 2012 Adria Twin including vat for £31.000 .00 i cannot see where you are looking on Mobile.de

[Guest JudgeMental]

tomag - 2012-06-08 7:08 AM

 

Hi Eddy where are you looking at 2012 Adria Twin including vat for £31.000 .00 i cannot see where you are looking on Mobile.de

 

Hi! Yes mobile.de, 2012 Euro 5 vans from 38,000 € approx £31,200 with extra 1% vat

 

Remember you can negotiate a discount also, try 3 dealers.

 

here is a link: http://tinyurl.com/ccwedrx

[lennyhb]

JudgeMental - 2012-06-07 11:37 PM

 

I know Lenny, its a complete waste of time...some incapable of listening to common sense. Your situation unusual as its hard to get RHD vans unless dealer gets his hands on a canceled order.....Although there have been quite a few RHD Globecars around recently.

 

 

Hymer are happy to supply RHD but you have to wait until they run a batch, other makes don't seem so keen to do it these days.

Insurance was not a problem for us as the dealer drove it to the port.

[Guest JudgeMental]

lennyhb - 2012-06-08 10:05 AM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-06-07 11:37 PM

 

I know Lenny, its a complete waste of time...some incapable of listening to common sense. Your situation unusual as its hard to get RHD vans unless dealer gets his hands on a canceled order.....Although there have been quite a few RHD Globecars around recently.

 

 

Hymer are happy to supply RHD but you have to wait until they run a batch, other makes don't seem so keen to do it these days.

Insurance was not a problem for us as the dealer drove it to the port.

 

We visited your dealer in Belgium last year to have a look at Hymer Car PVC, and there was no way we could order a RHD van according to them.....

[lennyhb]

Maybe because of the Brownhills problem there was no RHD batches being built may change now Hymer are getting sorted out in the UK. also you were after a Hymer Car PVC which I don't believe were ever imported to the UK.

I'm going over next week I'll ask, not too bothered as next van will be LHD, average year 90% of our mileage is over the channel.

[lennyhb]

Just spoken to Campirama RHD are available B Class & coachbuilts approx £1500 extra.