Transit spare wheel carrier.

[Brian Kirby]

Recently seen at Cahors: a RHD UK registered Hymer Van, with an underslung spare wheel carried about midships on the UK offside. Can anyone please say if this is a Hymer option on their Vans, or whether they know of the maker of this carrier?

I wanted to ask the owner about it, but he left before I had the opportunity. Shifting 25kg of spare from the garage (where ours lives) to the mid-point between the axles, would transfer a useful 20+kg onto the front, as well as lightening the rear overhang load.

[Robinhood]

....the spare wheel for the Hymervan in the current pricelist is an option, shown as "Reserverad (Stahl 16 Zoll) inkl. Halterung im Heckstauraum", or "Spare wheel (steel 16 inches) including holder in the rear storage area".

 

I can't see an underslung option detailed, so it doesn't look like a Hymer option. :-|

[hallii]

Cor, I was in Cahors about 3 1/2 weeks back, parked by the river, and my Hymer van has the spare underslung amidships. It winds down on a winch arrangement. It was on when I bought it so that's all I know.

 

It is, however, on the passenger (Near) side.

 

I wonder if we nearly met Brian.

 

H

[Guest pelmetman]

Robinhood - 2012-06-04 10:07 PM

 

....the spare wheel for the Hymervan in the current pricelist is an option, shown as "Reserverad (Stahl 16 Zoll) inkl. Halterung im Heckstauraum", or "Spare wheel (steel 16 inches) including holder in the rear storage area".

 

I can't see an underslung option detailed, so it doesn't look like a Hymer option. :-|

 

Are you a republican Robin???? 8-)

[Robinhood]

No - and I bet I've been nearer to the Queen than you. B-)

 

Most of the "entertainment" would tend to turn me into one, though, If I were subjected to much more. :-S

 

Madness performing "One's house" was OK, though. ;-)

 

 

BTW, you're still finding time to post. :-|

[Guest pelmetman]

Robinhood - 2012-06-04 10:22 PM

 

No - and I bet I've been nearer to the Queen than you. B-)

 

Most of the "entertainment" would tend to turn me into one, though, If I were subjected to much more. :-S

 

Madness performing "One's house" was OK, though. ;-)

 

 

BTW, you're still finding time to post. :-|

 

Let It Be :D ...........now I've got to dance again *-)

[Guest pelmetman]

live and let die..............& now the Queen 8-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Robinhood - 2012-06-04 10:22 PM

 

No - and I bet I've been nearer to the Queen than you. B-)

 

Most of the "entertainment" would tend to turn me into one, though, If I were subjected to much more. :-S

 

Madness performing "One's house" was OK, though. ;-)

 

 

BTW, you're still finding time to post. :-|

 

Apologies I have been OT :D......again :D.......I thought I was on the jubilee thread ;-)........but hey ho P*****d again (lol) (lol)

 

I do have a problem with dangling my dinlgy brain cell where its not wanted 8-)

[hallii]

Where is Brian Kirby?

 

Bump

 

 

H

[Uncle Bulgaria]

Like Brian, I would be very interested in an underslung spare wheel carrier fitted centrally between the axles. Grateful for any further information as to the supplier.

 

Richard.

[hallii]

I don't know if it's a Ford or Hymer fitting, it was on when I bought it used.

 

It looks like a Ford fitting to me, it just looks like it was fitted "ON THE LINE" rather than a bolt on extra.

 

I will try and find out, but Ford coudn't even tell me what brake discs and pads I needed!

 

"You will have to bring them in mate and we will see if we can match them"

 

So finding out if something is standard or not might be a bit difficult!

 

H

[Brian Kirby]

hallii - 2012-06-04 10:12 PM

 

Cor, I was in Cahors about 3 1/2 weeks back, parked by the river, and my Hymer van has the spare underslung amidships. It winds down on a winch arrangement. It was on when I bought it so that's all I know.

 

It is, however, on the passenger (Near) side.

 

I wonder if we nearly met Brian.

 

H

18-21 May, camping Cabessut. Owner looked rather out of sorts and seemed hardly to leave van. He was only there one night, can't remember which, probably 18 or 19 May.

 

Thanks for the replies - been a bit "hors de WiFi" since my post, sorry not to have responded earlier.

 

Have since met another RHD Hymer Van (58 plate) owner with same arrangement. Have yet to see a LHD variant to see if the spare is carried in the same way. However, it seems that at least for the UK market that arrangement is a Hymer standard fitment.

 

AFAIK, the "standard" Ford spare installation for a Transit van is at the rear just below the rear doors, and not amidships. The Hymer/Hobby Vans are on platform-cab chassis, so presumably might be deliverable with spare wheel carriers at the rear. So, possibly Ford Germany have an arrangement to supply an adapted spare carrier on chassis delivered to Hymer, or maybe Hymer are carrying out an adaptation of the standard carrier themselves, probably when they add the rear chassis extension. However, what interests me is the possibility of spares availability, and from whom. It is at least possible a replacement carrier might be required following damage, so I wondered who might supply these, Ford, Hymer, or A N Other. Would be grateful to know, if anyone can find out.

[Robinhood]

Brian Kirby - 2012-06-07 11:39 AM

 

AFAIK, the "standard" Ford spare installation for a Transit van is at the rear just below the rear doors, and not amidships. The Hymer/Hobby Vans are on platform-cab chassis, so presumably might be deliverable with spare wheel carriers at the rear. So, possibly Ford Germany have an arrangement to supply an adapted spare carrier on chassis delivered to Hymer, or maybe Hymer are carrying out an adaptation of the standard carrier themselves, probably when they add the rear chassis extension. However, what interests me is the possibility of spares availability, and from whom. It is at least possible a replacement carrier might be required following damage, so I wondered who might supply these, Ford, Hymer, or A N Other. Would be grateful to know, if anyone can find out.

 

The Ford Transit BEMM manual is a good source of information about all sorts of Transit conversions in general, and the platform cab in particular. (It was where if found out about activating the Fader on my Ford radio).

 

It details the fact that the "winder" for the spare wheel on the platform cab is in a different position to that on the standard van, but doesn't detail where that spare wheel actually is (though one would surmise, from the position of the winder, that it is in roughly the same place as the van).

 

It does not detail any optional change to this.

 

Downloadable if you go to the following link:

 

http://www.etis.ford.com/bemm/bemmSelectionForm.do

 

....accept the conditions and then select the appropriate BEMM to download.

 

(As it's a 42MB, 282 page reasonably detailed engineering manual, I'd suggest you don't try downloading whilst on the road ;-) - it would give you a few good rainy evening's reading, though, Brian (lol) (or possibly not))

[hallii]

OK Brian, we didn't nearly meet then!

 

I have found out that the fitment is a Ford standard fitting on tipper bodies, Cab chassis, and Motorhome chassis.

 

So youR local Ford may be able to help, although my experience of my local place is that they don't know

much about the differing spec. of the motorhome.

 

Hymer.de are quite helpful, I emailed them with a query and they replied by return in English. they might be a better bet.

 

Another thought is one of the second hand spares companies that are on the web? I wouldn't think they have much call for spare wheel carriers?

 

h

 

 

[Robinhood]

The standard location for the spare on Transit chassis-cabs, etc. is still behind the rear wheels. (clear from manuals and ford chassis-cab documentation).

 

The winder for this unit, however, is accessed from the UK offside (not the rear as per the panel van, which is definitely a different part), and as already posted, this is also the case for the platform cab.

 

Is this the normal Ford Transit cable and winder system, or is it in a cradle?

 

If the former, I suspect it may simply be the (normally rear-mounted) side-wound unit relocated to a spot between the axles.

 

If this is the case, the next thing to understand is how the unit is mounted onto the body (pre-existing Ford locations, or a Hymer modification). If there is space, and ready-made mounting points, then addition for Brian may be pretty simple (though, of course, nothing ever is ;-) )

[Derek Uzzell]

I note that you asked about this on the Ford Transit forum.

 

It's perhaps worth pointing out that, while carrying a spare-wheel centrally between the front and rear axles may be an arrangement available for Transit tippers and models based on a chassis-cab chassis, it's debatable that it's "standard" (the Transit Forum advice). For proof of this, see the photos of current FWD and RWD chassis-cab Transits here

 

http://www.ford.co.uk/Commercialvehicles/TransitChassisCab/Bodywork-and-conversions

 

where it's plain that the spare wheel is being carried behind the rear axle in what I've always understood to be the standard position. Transit Mk 6 chassis-cab models carried their spare behind the rear axle and, to the best of my knowledge, this practice continued with the Mk 7.

 

I assume it was Hymer that informed you that the arrangement was available for the 'motorhome' platform-cab chassis used on your motorhome (and on Brian's, Robinhood's and mine). Since 2004 I've seen a good few motorhomes based on the Transit FWD platform-cab chassis and I don't recall ever seeing one with a between-axles spare wheel. So the Hymer Van arrangement certainly isn't standard for these chassis, though I'm happy to accept that it may be a Ford option.

[camperadi]

Hi Brian, I have a 2004 Chasson Welcome RHD MK 6 Transit. The spare wheel arrangement you describe sounds identical to mine with a cable lowered cradel which winds down from directly behind the rear twin wheels on the offside. On my 7 meter van that puts it approx 1.8 meters from the back. It is a ford provided part fitted with the chassis prior to conversion. Having looked in the ford Handbook it shows this arrangement on the flatbed chassis with the rear mounted version on other types of van chassis. Chasson have provided an extension handle for the extra width and there is a hole in the lower skirt for this to pass through. The later mark7 may be more central. On my van the entrance door is in the middle of the van on the offside so the spare wheel carrier might have been moved further back by Ford/Chasson for my design of van. Stuart

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-06-07 4:08 PM

 

I note that you asked about this on the Ford Transit forum.

 

It's perhaps worth pointing out that, while carrying a spare-wheel centrally between the front and rear axles may be an arrangement available for Transit tippers and models based on a chassis-cab chassis, it's debatable that it's "standard" (the Transit Forum advice). For proof of this, see the photos of current FWD and RWD chassis-cab Transits here

 

http://www.ford.co.uk/Commercialvehicles/TransitChassisCab/Bodywork-and-conversions

 

where it's plain that the spare wheel is being carried behind the rear axle in what I've always understood to be the standard position. Transit Mk 6 chassis-cab models carried their spare behind the rear axle and, to the best of my knowledge, this practice continued with the Mk 7.

 

I assume it was Hymer that informed you that the arrangement was available for the 'motorhome' platform-cab chassis used on your motorhome (and on Brian's, Robinhood's and mine). Since 2004 I've seen a good few motorhomes based on the Transit FWD platform-cab chassis and I don't recall ever seeing one with a between-axles spare wheel. So the Hymer Van arrangement certainly isn't standard for these chassis, though I'm happy to accept that it may be a Ford option.

 

I suspect the respondees on the Transit forum have read only half the question, and are responding re the method of securing/carrying the spare, rather than the location.

 

The vehicle manuals, BEMM manual, website material, etc. all demonstrate that the standard location is behind the rear wheels.

 

The German website information on the "Reisemobile" base is also revealing on this. Whilst on the chassis-cab and platform cab description it highlights that the winding mechanism is mounted for sideways operation, the pictures (when magnified) clearly show the spare mounted behind the rear axle in both cases. (both pieces of info consistent with all the documentation I can find).

 

http://www.ford.de/Nutzfahrzeuge/BasisfahrzeugeReisemobile

 

As I posted previously, I suspect this particular (sideways) variation of mechanism has been (re-)mounted away from the standard location, by either Ford or Hymer, but it would be interesting to see if there is standard (but unused) provision for this on our vehicles.

 

Given that it is lashing down here at the moment, I'm certainly not going out yet to check. ;-)

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks for all the info, folks. I wonder if Halli might have the explanation, though, in his reference to the motorhome chassis.

Haven't seen a cage as such, just a spare with a winder just inboard of the skirt, so a suspended arrangement seems likely.

I am unaware as to whether Hymer are building their Vans on the motorhome specific chassis (though I had thought this was introduced by Ford too late to underpin a 58 plate Van) or on the "standard" platform cab. If Hymer are using the Transit motorhome chassis, it seems likely this makes provision for the spare to be carried in this way.

If not, I'd be reluctant to start trying to hang 25kg of spare under the van without some kind of mounting instructions and a fitting kit. The thought of it working loose and detaching is a bit eye-watering!! 8-)

[Derek Uzzell]

Robinhood - 2012-06-07 4:40 PM

 

...it would be interesting to see if there is standard (but unused) provision for this on our vehicles.

 

Given that it is lashing down here at the moment, I'm certainly not going out yet to check. ;-)

 

I briefly looked under my Transit Mk 6's chassis, but it was evident that a spare wheel couldn't be fitted midway along the vehicle as the waste-water-tank and exhaust system would get in the way.

 

I would have thought that, with the platform-cab chassis, carrying the spare wheel as on hallii's Hymer Van would reduce ground clearance exactly where it would be wise to maximise it. Having said that, my Hobby has a 100litres underfloor waste-water tank longways just behind the cab and that's never been problematical, so perhaps there's still plenty of clearance left with a centrally-carried spare.

 

I'm tempted to think this is a Hymer adaptation using standard Ford parts. The platform-cab 'motorhome' chassis is essentially a Transit panel-van with its roof and rear bodywork amputated. I can't think why Ford should offer the option of mounting a spare wheel between the front and rear axles of a panel-van, so I would have thought the platform-cab's floor-pan would not have been designed for that purpose. As the Transit spare wheel raising/lowering mechanism is just a couple of units connected by a bowden cable, mounting it underfloor should be straightforward enough.

 

My understanding is that hallii's Hymer Van is a 2007 model, which means a platform-cab chassis - motorhomes based on Ford's ladder-frame 'camping-car' Transit chassis weren't available before 2010.

 

Having inspected a current model Hymer Van at a French motorhome dealerhip, I can confirm that Hymer uses the Transit camping-car ladder-frame chassis-cab base for "Vans", but (because Vans are narrow) with a narrow-track rear axle not the wider-track version. As Robinhood said earlier in the thread, the (optional) spare wheel for current Hymer Vans is carried on a bracket in the rear stowage compartment, which suggests mid-mounting of a spare wheel as on hallii's Van may no longer be practicable with the latest specialised chassis. If that's so, then it's a pity, as there are Transit-based motorhomes like Chausson's Flash 10 that can't carry a spare wheel in the normal behind-rear-axle position (because the waste-water tank is there) and have no suitable storage space inside the vehicle.

[Bulletguy]

Robinhood - 2012-06-07 4:40 PM

 

The vehicle manuals, BEMM manual, website material, etc. all demonstrate that the standard location is behind the rear wheels.

 

That's correct. Standard Ford Transit as manufactured.

 

My van is an Auto-Sleepers Duetto Ford Transit and the spare is accessed through using a folding handle which you push through an access hole just beneath the rear doors and the wheel is wound down from it's underslung bay. The only thing keeping it there is a wire cable and metal hook (the hook passing through the wheel centre), so the first thing all Transit owners ensure is the cable and hook being substantially covered in grease.

[Mel B]

I have seriously considered positioning our spare wheel from inside our garage to the offside between the front and rear axles. I inspected the area in some detail last year and located a suitable place on the offside adjacent to the back edge of the habitation door moulded step. After careful measuring and the use of a cardboard template I found there was enough clearance there for it to fit snugly and not protrude below other items already under the van, although care would need to be taken not to squash any cables etc. In the end at the time I didn't get time to have a go before we went on holiday and since then I haven't bothered to look again, maybe at some point I will and do it if we find we need more space in the garage.

[Derek Uzzell]

Although mounting a Ford Transit-based motorhome's spare wheel beneath the chassis will maximise the vehicle's interior space, there are persuasive reasons not to do it if the motorhome has a 'garage' capable of carrying the spare.

 

A garage-carried spare wheel will be protected from the elements/damage/theft and (provided that you store stuff in the garage keeping in mind that you may have to retrieve the spare wheel in an emergency) should be reasonably quickly accessible.

 

Lowering and raising a spare wheel via Ford's winder/winch mechanism is not a rapid procedure and (speaking from experience) the winder lacks sturdiness. With a Transit-based coachbuilt motorhome and the spare in its standard position just behind the rear axle, you not only have to lower the wheel to the ground but also drag it from beneath the vehicle's rear overhang. And vice versa when a wheel has to be wound back into place.

 

Even if the wheel is mounted in the Hymer Van manner, it's not hard to imagine a scenario where the position of the disabled motorhome inhibits access to the under-chassis spare. This is much less likely if the spare is garage-stored.

[Guest machra]

Brian - I had a Hobby T600FC 2007 and as that came with a can of goo I investigated spare wheel options. As Hobby build on the platform-cab chassis which I believe is just a van without the sides or roof, and is different to the chassis-cab, the spare wheel cradle mounting was still in situ just to the rear of the back wheels. However it was munus cradle so I ended up buying a Ford cradle and getting a second hand wheel and tyre. As a Ford part the cradle fitted perfectly BUT it was a devil to use as the winding mechanism was close up to the extended skirt of the van. Being a platform-cab they are built so that you wind down the wheel from the rear and not the sides as in the chassis-cab (Pick-up). I had to make up a socket bar to fit the winding mechanism and use a spanner. It took ages to wind up/down but was certainly better than a can of goo.

[Derek Uzzell]

machra - 2012-06-08 11:56 AM

 

Brian - I had a Hobby T600FC 2007 and as that came with a can of goo I investigated spare wheel options. As Hobby build on the platform-cab chassis which I believe is just a van without the sides or roof, and is different to the chassis-cab, the spare wheel cradle mounting was still in situ just to the rear of the back wheels. However it was munus cradle so I ended up buying a Ford cradle and getting a second hand wheel and tyre. As a Ford part the cradle fitted perfectly BUT it was a devil to use as the winding mechanism was close up to the extended skirt of the van. Being a platform-cab they are built so that you wind down the wheel from the rear and not the sides as in the chassis-cab (Pick-up). I had to make up a socket bar to fit the winding mechanism and use a spanner. It took ages to wind up/down but was certainly better than a can of goo.

 

My 2005 Transit Mk 6-based Hobby T-600FC has a similar platform-cab floor-pan to your later model's, but my vehicle had a spare wheel as standard.

 

I'm uncertain about your "cradle" reference as my vehicle has Ford's winch/winder arrangement that does not involve a cradle. On the underside of my Hobby's floor-pan are mounting points on to which a central winch-unit is bolted. This is connected to a winder-unit located in a position where it can be operated to lower/raise the spare wheel. The spare wheel is attached to the end of a cable that's wound down and up by the winch. In my case the winder-unit is bolted to the outer edge of the chassis just to the rear of the right rear wheel. The winder is rotated from the side of the motorhome (in theory) by the jack-handle: in practice I found it necessary to make up a 'bar' like you did (and it's still a beggar to use!)

 

It sounds to me that you may have fitted a spare wheel mechanism suitable for a Transit panel van, whereas the mechanism on my Hobby is as used on Transit chassis-cab models.

 

During the discussion on this earlier thread

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=22226&posts=21

 

Brian confirmed that his Hobby Van (also with no standard spare wheel) carried no spare-wheel mounting mechanism, but it's probable that his Van's chassis has the necessary mounting points for either my type of spare wheel carrying arrangement or yours. Whether it has the mounting points for the arrangement used on hallii's Hymer Van would need investigation.

 

A critical difference between a Hobby Van and a Hobby T-600FC, of course, is that the former has a 'garage' that can easily accommodate a spare wheel if wished (which Brian does), while the latter has no storage space within the motorhome suitable for carrying a spare.