AEC0303 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Hello everyone, Unashamed totally green Newbie here, about to take the plunge. Have lurked for a few weeks on a number of forums picking up information like a sieve. Am about to make a decision on a Low Profile beast - either a near new Ace, a Swift Bolero or a Bessacarr and have seen a huge number at way too many dealers. My question - and apologies if this is too simple - are dealers doing deals ?? I know that car dealers are desperate to sell cars at the moment, and the deals being done are quite surprising. Are motorhome dealers in the same boat?? Is there a glut of great used M'Homes out there waiting to be snapped up?? Appreciate the wisdom of the group Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBill Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 There are a lot of used motorhomes about but unlike cars, motorhomes are keeping their price. We traded in our 2004 Ducato van conversion and got 18.5K for it. We bought it three years ago for 17K. Older vans that look like tat are fetching some silly money and the traders know it. Some people go foreign and buy abroad where some good deals can be had. You seem to be interested in a British built van, not too many, if any are sold abroad. Good luck with your search but be prepared to be surprised and have to dig deeper to get what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Not the greatest time of year for a deal as prices firm up from the Spring onwards...If you have no PX why not buy privately, much better chance of a deal plus probably a better price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Hi Andrew There's always a Deal & if one doesn't suit there is always another around the corner especially when you are looking at common models, like you quote. There's no shame in walking away if the deal doesn't feel right. The vans you listed are all basically the same van with different branding by Swifts. Ace Airstream (now discontinued) is the same as Swift Bolero (but with different fabric choice & external colour) Bessacarr E500 series generally more "standard" equipment (& again different fabric choice & external colour + furniture wood shade) So it's more a question of which layout suits your requirements, See the Swift website to see which Bolero equates to which Bessacarr E500 series. Likewise the Ace Capri, Swift Sundance & Bessacarr E400 series are basically the same van with different branding by Swifts. If you work on the basis that the forecourt screen price is "with P/X", but I assume as a newbie you will not have a P/X. So make some tentative enquiry & see what the Dealers opening offer is, then work Down from there. Also be aware that there are many New 2011 Euro 4 models, greatly discounted. OR SHOULD BE. Not one of the vans you listed, but an advert in July MMM one Berkshire Dealer has a Chausson Flash 14 "screen" price of £43,137 special offer £35,500 for "without P/X". Gives an indication of the current market. Check the bigger Dealers websites to see their current "Special Offers" to get an idea of prices, then see what your "local" dealer can offer. Some "local" Dealers offers may surprise you. Big is not always best. Good luck with your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 One area of the negotations is not to forget you should get a really good deal on any extras or accessories you are going to need/want. Whilst the dealer my not move any further on the Motorhome price, he may then include giving you acessories at cost or certainly a hefty discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hi, I'm a newbie like yourself and have just bought a new motorhome from a company called Moranmotorhomes in Ludlow, Shropshire even though we live in Lincs. It's just that we were out that way and called in and they struck us as being honest to the bone with no pressure at all. We got a very good deal much better than other dealers we had visited. They also have huge on site workshops and apparantly get people coming from all over the country to get their vans serviced. I promise I have no connection with this company whatsoever but just found them very polite, knowledgable and very helpful. We rightly slag companies off for giving bad service so I feel we should praise the good ones! Happy hunting, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Genuine owners sell vans privately on the likes of ebay, autotrader and MMM because of derisory offers from the trade.... Pointless going to a dealer IMO unless you need to PX. Save yourself a bunch of money. Someone I meet recently in Spain saved 15k on a Swift buying privately...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 For a cash buyer there are some great deals around just now on a rapidly diminishing number of Swift vans on the Euro 4 Fiat chassis and given the doubt over the unproven DPF system used to meet Euro 5 rules I would opt for one on the Euro 4 models if I were buying new - or used! You just need to research where they are, make a phone call, test drive the van and see how you like it. I presume you have researched layouts, uncomfortable beds, hopeless lounges, unusable washrooms, small water tanks, inadequate storage and payload, unusable kitchens and all the other pitfalls of the first time buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 "I presume you have researched layouts, uncomfortable beds, hopeless lounges, unusable washrooms, small water tanks, inadequate storage and payload, unusable kitchens and all the other pitfalls of the first time buy?" Spot on! Trucks have been using DPF for a while now to comply with regs. its just a separate tank that you fill up, not very often with a motorhome I suspect. The liquid I have heard is derived from pigs urine. I certainly would not be buying a Euro 4 van now, as living in London I would be concerned regards its future use and value.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-06-14 11:17 AM Trucks have been using DPF for a while now to comply with regs. its just a separate tank that you fill up, not very often with a motorhome I suspect. The liquid I have heard is derived from pigs urine. I certainly would not be buying a Euro 4 van now, as living in London I would be concerned regards its future use and value.... I draw my conclusion from expert views - those of Nick (Euroserve) and some dealers who - perhaps not openly - admit that some people are having problems with their van's DPF failing to regenerate because they are not driving fast enough often enough. Be aware that if the vehicle needs dealer work to regenerate or reset or even replace a DPF it is NOT a warranty issue and you WILL be charged for this work - and it ain't cheap. You have been warned!! It makes no difference to me who buys what but everyone is entitled to be aware of the unpublicised pitfalls as well as the much vaunted - but dubious - benefits. Your money - your call - but just as I wisely avoided the first generation of X250s so will I avoid the first generation of DPF fitted vans. I am no expert and I don't follow the political clap trap but I get the impression that Euro 4 vehicles will be allowed into London and other controlled places for many years to come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 "I get the impression that Euro 4 vehicles will be allowed into London and other controlled places for many years to come?" I dont a clue, but environmental legislation has a habit of changing and caught a lot of people in London out with earlier vans... DPF issues are with cars/city cars that do very short journeys and dont warm up properly...I don't think motorhomes are used in the same way, as most of our journeys are less frequent but far longer, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-06-14 12:19 PM DPF issues are with cars/city cars that do very short journeys and dont warm up properly...I don't think motorhomes are used in the same way, as most of our journeys are less frequent but far longer, DPF issues are with ALL vehicles that do not go fast enough for long enough to regenerate the DPF. I don't know a lot about the techy stuff but there is a huge volume of anecdotal evidence that the system has yet to be perfected and does not perform even as well as the limited claims made by the makers? That is fair enough and I don't even mind having an untried system but I sure as heck object to being inconvenienced by 'limp home mode' and charged to put it right because it is not sufficiently developed to cope with all types of use - the fact that all Euro 4 and earlier vehicles can cope with all types of use just serves to make it worse in my view. Do you never leave a site and meander touring for a day without ever going above 40 mph - we do - and so do many others I suspect because that is what motorhomes do best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 No, We like fresh air.... ..Thats what bikes are for, riding peacefully around in absolute silence! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Might just as well tow a caravan to a site then and have the convenience of greater space and a tow car to use to go shopping whilst the bike batteries recharge!! Hold your breath whilst all the Euro 4 and older vehicles go past as you pedal away as it would be ironic to catch something nasty from all the diesel fumes whilst you are enjoying the fresh air!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 My vans to Old to be allowed in to London........................I would call that a bonus.... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I knew you could not stay civil for long..........Moi in a caravan, unlikely! Never have and never will...... I cycle most days it is a pleasure, driving is not. Our holidays centre around cycling also. We like camping, the outdoor life, not being stuck in a motorhome. So Andrew! what year van are you after and what budget..we have many helpful hands that can squirrel out a bargain for you to examine!:-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEC0303 Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Thanks for all the great replies. No idea what "DPF issues are"...help!! I'm sure Mr. Google will be able to give some clues. [EDIT - Ok, got it Diesel Particulate Filter - like soot in the chimney - stuffs the emissions...Don't plan on driving into major city centers (eg LDN) so is this really a major challenge ?? Surely there must be millions of vans that are in the same boat...or up the same chimney? ] I'm looking at low mileage 09 and 10 plates for all my options, mainly because of warranty. I know that's just my peace of mind really, and that there will always be "discussion" over what's included or not, but makes me feel better for my first motorhome purchase. Have done, for me, a huge amount of homework, and think I have a decent list of questions, but are there any key ones you can suggest I bottom-out ?? Damp, unreliablilities etc...you'll all know the right things to ask...I don't (yet). As for the operation of all the stuff, well, I'm assuming that even if I don't know today, then the fact that other know , then that means I can pick it up too.... So to the nitty gritty. The ticket price for all three options is around £32-33k. I'm a cash buyer, no P/X, looking to buy in the next for days. One dealer is offering just 6 months on the warranty, another 12 months, another 2 years. Does this *actually* matter, and should I be thinking of extended warranties ? For the ticket price, where would you pitch your opening offer ? Thanks again folk, this is a really friendly bunch of people on here, and I hope to become a proper contributor soon... Thanks again for all your answers and comment. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 AEC0303 - 2012-06-14 5:18 PM Thanks for all the great replies. No idea what "DPF issues are"...help!! I'm sure Mr. Google will be able to give some clues. I'm looking at low mileage 09 and 10 plates for all my options, mainly because of warranty. I know that's just my peace of mind really, and that there will always be "discussion" over what's included or not, but makes me feel better for my first motorhome purchase. Have done, for me, a huge amount of homework, and think I have a decent list of questions, but are there any key ones you can suggest I bottom-out ?? Damp, unreliablilities etc...you'll all know the right things to ask...I don't (yet). As for the operation of all the stuff, well, I'm assuming that even if I don't know today, then the fact that other know , then that means I can pick it up too.... So to the nitty gritty. The ticket price for all three options is around £32-33k. I'm a cash buyer, no P/X, looking to buy in the next for days. One dealer is offering just 6 months on the warranty, another 12 months, another 2 years. Does this *actually* matter, and should I be thinking of extended warranties ? For the ticket price, where would you pitch your opening offer ? Thanks again folk, this is a really friendly bunch of people on here, and I hope to become a proper contributor soon... Thanks again for all your answers and comment. Cheers Andrew DPF = Diesel particulate Filter not fitted on Euro 4 Fiat models (2006 - 2011) "For the ticket price, where would you pitch your opening offer ?" Don't start the offers, leave it to the Dealer to pitch once he is aware there is no Trade in (P/X) & work down from this opening gambit. Having reached his limit go for the add-on goodies, big ticket items like Awning first, but always Spare Wheel (if not standard) Gas Bottles, EHU Cable, Water Hose. So start looking at his most expensive stock & if he can't come down sufficiently, look at an older version / model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 DPF = Diesel Particulate Filter - a device dreamed up by politicians not engineers to remove the black bits from diesel exhaust. It works well but depends on very high temperatures to burn the carbon (soot) particles and if the vehicle is not driven fast enough or far enough or at the specified speed for the specified time the device clogs up and has to be cleaned or replaced by a main dealer (at the owner's expense) to prevent the vehicle electronics going into limited speed limp home mode. Not ideal!! Most 09 and 10 plate vehicles will not have this device as they are mainly - but not all - Euro 4 emissions whereas the DPF only became compulsory for Euro 5 engines. Unreliability? Most modern vans will go to the moon and back without problems but there are always exceptions and low mileage and lack of use does not help on a vehicle designed for daily use. Unfortunately the interior devices like heating and electronics whilst pretty good on the whole can also be a real pain in the bum when they do decide to play up. Damp - look for water marks and stains behind curtains, under beds, in lockers, round windows, skylights and other holes cut in the bodywork. Warranty? You pays yer money and takes yer choice. The longer the warranty the greater the theoretical peace of mind but some warranties are better than others for paying out and some insist you go to either a main agent for the conversion or base vehicle or even the supplying dealer which is not always convenient. As long as you know what you have you can budget accordingly. Marquis 3 year is one of the best around - but someone has to pay for it - guess who!! The supplying dealer or seller should know how it all works and you should insist on seeing everything working before parting with your money and driving off. Always offer less that you are happy to pay and don't be afraid to play one against the other. You can always pay more but you will never get a reduction once you have stated a price or if the salesman thinks he has a deal with you at a higher price. Extras like cab air con, cruise control, reversing camera, solar panel, awning, extra leisure battery, gas bottle(s), mains lead, water hose etc are always worth haggling for as they will cost the dealer trade prices and you retail if you have to buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 The earlier X250 Fiats had "issues" so I would stick with a 2010. and make sure it is a 2010 built model! Make sure the paperwork in order and damp checks and all guarantees still valid and in order also. Payload a real issue with many campers so make sure it has enough spare capacity, ID the van and come back on here and ask. dont buy a van without A/C I just put in swift bolero 2010 (I dont like swift) and from dealers lots around (not surprising*-)) but higher then you budget...do yourself a favour and look at some other makes also...... autotrail & Adria build nice vans have you decided what bed layout you want, and is storage important, do you intend to go away on long holidays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-06-14 5:05 PM I knew you could not stay civil for long..........Moi in a caravan, unlikely! Never have and never will...... Sorry Eddie - did not mean to insult you by suggesting a caravan - just thought it might suit your dislike of driving as the bloomin thing would have to stay still for a fortnight just to justify all the kit - mains lead, water roller thingy, huge awning, 4 windbreaks, flags on fishing poles waving in the wind, clothes line, groundsheets, guy ropes to trip over, tumble drier in the awning, 42" TV with 30" satellite dish, etc etc.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Nooooooo...... Thats Syd your describing not ME! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Andrew Have a look at this link to the Northern Motorhome Show, next month, for an insight of some of the offers from Dealers. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Motorhomes/News/Shows/Top-motorhome-dealers-and-fantastic-offers-confirmed-for-the-Northern-Motorcaravan-Show/_ch1_nw2161_pg1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Andrew Have a look at this link to the Northern Motorhome Show, next month, for an insight of some of the offers from Dealers. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Motorhomes/News/Shows/Top-motorhome-dealers-and-fantastic-offers-confirmed-for-the-Northern-Motorcaravan-Show/_ch1_nw2161_pg1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Just like the fake supermarket "offers". No mention of the 25% inflated UK asking prices for motorhomes in the first place, compared to better specified European equivalents... *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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