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Danger zones ?


thebishbus

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Hi. Can anyone help me? I have a TomTom GO 7000 truck/ motorhome version. I have been downloading the updates from TomTom, but how do I find out if it has converted French radar/camera positions, to danger zones.

In the TomTom services / TomTom / safety camera / change warning preferences menu, I can find accident black spots, but no mention of danger zones. We are of to France shortly, and I would like to know if it is correct before going. Thank you.

Brian B.

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I have not got a TomTom device, but the information here

 

http://uk.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5560/~/is-the-tomtom-speed-camera-service-legal%3F

 

suggests to me that your GO 7000 sat-nav may not be able to accept the French 'Danger Zone' download. (You should be able to confirm this by following TomTom's instructions.)

 

If, in fact, your GO 7000 can be updated and you've carried out the Danger Zone download and you just want to confirm the download has 'taken', then I can't really help other than to suggest that there's every chance that it has worked OK provided that the download was problem-free.

 

Garmin provided me with a free download for my own sat-nav and I was subsequently able to see that a revised file has been added to the device. However, I was not able to confirm that the device would now report Danger Zones, rather than speed camera locations, until I was driving in France last week. Danger Zones were indeed reported and proved to be as useless as had been anticipated. I also noted that the Danger Zones failed to refer to several speed cameras that still had roadside warning panels (but I think these cameras were missed on the old software too).

 

It may also be worth adding that the French 'Danger Zones' warnings just appear when Garmin's general "Safety Cameras" Alerts option is selected. So, when driving in the UK the device provides speed-camera alerts and, when driving in France, it provides Danger Zone alerts. There's no way of selecting Danger Zones specifically; you just select (or deselect) the Garmin Safety Camera Alerts option as a totality.

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Thanks Derek. I have been into MY TOM TOM and downloaded the updates, it did say that the change to danger zones was included in the updates I just think that it is strange that I cannot select them , to decide whether to enable them or not. I wondered if anyone else with a Tom Tom could select danger zones.

We are off to France in a few weeks time, looks like I will have to wait until we get there, and see what happens.

Brian B.

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Hi Brian B,

 

We also have a TT Go7000 Truck (it is 2 years old now) and as far as I am aware the software for French Danger Zones does NOT get updated via the TT updates service. As far as I know you have to manually disable Safety Warnings on the device, as described in the TT link that Brian U posted previously.

 

Hope this helps but if anyone knows any different then I would be pleased to hear about it.

 

Regards,

John & Anne.

 

 

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BUT, and it is quite an important but, it is, IMO, foolish to place reliance on any information on any sat nav regarding speed limits or Gatsos. Even having downloaded the latest mapping, which is inevitably out of date by the time it is published, the locations of speed limits and the speeds that are permitted are too often wrong to be relied upon. It is far, far, safer to look for the speed limit signs because these are continually changing.

 

We have recently returned from 8 weeks in France, covering about 2,400 miles, and about halfway round I experimented with the audible warning option for speed limits. I turned it off after two days because apart form the fact that I found it irritating and distracting, it was far too often wrong. Our Garmin indicates the speed limit on screen, as well as actual road speed, which turns red when a known limit is exceeded. I experienced numerous instances where the speed limit had been raised, so that roadside signs were saying, for example 70, when the Garmin thought the limit should be 50, and many, many, more instances where the Garmin thought the limit should be 90, but the signs said 70. This is particularly true on approach to towns where it seems a lot of 70 limits have been installed to reduce traffic speeds on approach.

 

The sat nav provides useful guidance, it is not all knowing. :-)

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Brian Kirby - 2012-06-19 10:34 AM

 

The sat nav provides useful guidance, it is not all knowing. :-)

 

.....neither does it take the points or pay the fines! ;-)

 

 

(The description "provides useful guidance, it is not all knowing" could equally be applied to SWMBO, at least in one of the two respects :-S )

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Hi. My main concern was not using the information provided by the sat nav , as I know from my own experience that this can be out of date, but that I may be breaking French law, if the sat nav was still capable of showing French Radar/camera positions.

Brian B.

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thebishbus - 2012-06-19 1:49 PM

 

Hi. My main concern was not using the information provided by the sat nav , as I know from my own experience that this can be out of date, but that I may be breaking French law, if the sat nav was still capable of showing French Radar/camera positions.

Brian B.

 

Received wisdom (together with the advice from the sat-nav manufacturers) is that deselecting the device's speed-camera-alerts capability while driving in France is sufficient to comply with the recently-introduced French law.

 

Esssentially, even if the sat-nav retains its original ability (and the software/data) to identify the specific locations of French speed-cameras, deselecting that feature while driving in France is all that's needed for legal compliance.

 

(No point arguing about the above - it's a loosely-worded law and 'deselection' does not seem to match what the law's wording appers to demand. Nevertheless, the sat-nav manufacturers, motoring clubs, etc. all advise that 'deselection' is OK, so I'm happy to accept that it is.)

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Have just returned from France and they seem to be going into the "Your Speed" indication equipment in a big way, not in just towns/villages but way out in the sticks. These read and flash up your speed (hopefully with a smiley face)

On numerous occassions I checked the shown speed with that on my Garmin and in 99% of the time it was accurate to within a KPH.

 

As an aside most towns/villages have a 50kph speed limit. However, where there is a speed bump/table the speed is often reduced to 30 kph at the bump, but there is no cancellation of the 30 kph immediately after it.

I assume that once you have gone over a bump indicated at 30 the rest of the journey through that town/village remains at 30.

Or is it only 30 kph over the bump? Any one know?

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Where I have encountered 30KPH restrictions (lots :-)), with (lots :-() or without speed hump, they are generally on approach to town/village centres, and are cancelled by a 50KPH once through the centre. I have not yet encountered an isolated 30KPH applying only to a speed hump. The hump is there primarily to ensure compliance with the limit, and not vice versa.

 

By no means are all humps accompanied by signs, and a few even miss the road surface markings as well, making identification very difficult in strong sun.

 

Equally, there are numerous 30KPH zones without humps, though usually with changes to the road surface to setts, or bricks, often laid in patterns to visually and audibly indicate one is in a predominantly pedestrian zone.

 

I seem to remember a law has been introduced fairly recently in France giving pedestrians absolute priority in such zones, meaning that if there is a collision between a pedestrian and a vehicle within such a zone, the vehicle driver will automatically be presumed in the wrong. I think it is primarily this change of pedestrian status that the 30KPH signs are signalling.

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I think the only way you can check if TT has actually replaced the previously dowloaded cameras with 'Safety Zones' is when you get to France. We had quite a lot of 'corresponsdence' with TT before coming over here a few weeks ago, with no satisfactory answer to the question, and it wasn't until we were on the road that we actually found out we did have the SZs....the SatNav shows this for often a couple of Km, and somewhere along this stretch you MAY find a camera! There are still some warning signs for these here and there!

 

With regard to the 30kph zomes, mostly we find they are well signed, boh at start and finish, and certianly some will extend through thetown/village until showing otherwise. The humps are a pain, and 30kph is not a spoeed I wouldeven attempty, more like 0-5kph! There is no logic to where they are used though!

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I think the only way you can check if TT has actually replaced the previously dowloaded cameras with 'Safety Zones' is when you get to France. We had quite a lot of 'corresponsdence' with TT before coming over here a few weeks ago, with no satisfactory answer to the question, and it wasn't until we were on the road that we actually found out we did have the SZs....the SatNav shows this for often a couple of Km, and somewhere along this stretch you MAY find a camera! There are still some warning signs for these here and there!

 

With regard to the 30kph zomes, mostly we find they are well signed, boh at start and finish, and certianly some will extend through thetown/village until showing otherwise. The humps are a pain, and 30kph is not a spoeed I wouldeven attempty, more like 0-5kph! There is no logic to where they are used though!

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I can think of one French village with two tall/wide 'sleeping policemen', both well within the zone blanketed by the normal 50kmh limit. The 'humps' are in succession on the main road through the village and each has its own dedicated 30kmh warning signs. The logical implication of this is that, once one has passed over the 1st hump, the speed limit returns to 50kmh, reducing to 30kmh again for the 2nd hump. So the spedd limit sequence passing through that village would be 50kmh on entrance to the village until 1st hump, 30kmh(over 1st hump), 50kmh until 2nd hump, 30kmh(over 2nd hump), 50kmh from 2nd hump until exit from village.

 

It's not really logical to expect a lowered speed restriction relating to a hump to last beyond the hump. If that were the case, then every subsequent street (including all sidestreets) after the hump would be at the lower limit until one exited the town/village. You'd also have a logical conflict where the speed limit would be, say, 50kmh or 30kmh for exactly the same piece of road dependng on which direction you were travelling.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I posted earlier in the year about Garmin "Safety Zones" In France.

I used the Garmin and the first time I passed a camera I got a warning from the Satnav so it definitely did have this (which I promptly disabled). It seems that I must have unknowingly bought this as part of the "lifetime" European Maps update which I bought last year.

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HymerVan

 

I'm not sure your conclusion is necessarily right.

 

When I bought a Garmin nuvi 1340 last year it came with 'sample' 2010-dated versions of the Cyclops files (that include a file specifically for France) that provide data relating to safety cameras. I then downloaded a free update of the mapping files, but the version-dates of the Cyclops files remained unchanged.

 

Subsequently, when the revised French speed-camera-warning law was introduced at the beginning of this year, I deleted the France Cyclops file from my sat-nav following advice from Garmin. Inexplicably, this deletion failed to stop speed-camera warnings being provided when driving in France and, when I asked Garmin why, I was given a free download of the latest 'Danger Zones' France Cyclops file. During my recent June trip to France I confirmed that my sat-nav does indeed now provide Danger Zone general warnings rather than the previous accurate warnings of locations of French speed cameras.

 

My understanding was that provision of updated speed-camera warning information was an extra service requiring an additional fee - essentially, that one could purchase a mapping update but, if you wanted a speed-camera warnings update, you'd need to specify (and pay for) this separately.

 

You may be able to confirm the currency of your safety camera files by checking their version-date.

 

On my nuvi 1340, if I select (via the touch screen) "System", then "About", then (scrolling to the bottom of the list that appears) "Extras and Safety Cameras", a list of Europe-related Cyclops files appears. In my case each of these files carries its original 'sample' version-date of Dec-20-2010 except for the France-related file that carries a version-date of Mar-28-2012.

 

If the France Cyclops file on your Garmin sat-nav has a version-date prior to 2012, then your device will produce 'illegal' safety-camera warnings. If your France Cyclops file has a 2012 version-date I'd expect Danger Zones warnings to be provided.

 

It needs saying that a Garmin Danger Zone warning looks not much different on a sat-nav's small screen from the previous (now illegal) Garmin safety-camera warning. So, when you passed a French camera, your Garmin sat-nav might have issued a (legal) Danger Zone warning or an (illegal) 'speed camera' warning.

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Thanks Derek for this helpful comment. I tried to look at the files stored on my device but was not able to come to a clear conclusion. Additionally (unlike Kent Police who no doubt have close connections with their French counterparts since they "work in France" at the Tunnel at least) I am not convinced that switching off the indication makes the equipment legal. I won't be back in France for a while so perhaps by then clarity will have emerged on this issue but as a general comment I did not always find it easy to identify the various speed limits in force in an urban setting.
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There was a piece in the "Telegraph" a few weeks ago saying that the French Tourist Office had been asked about the 'legality' of just switching off a sat-nav that still had the capability to accurately identify speed-camera locations.

 

If I remember correctly, the French Tourist Board not only could not provide a Yes or No answer, but also could not say whether the French law applied to non-French-resident motorists. It was also said that the French police had no powers to check the software/contents of a motorist's sat-nav/phone to confirm if the device complied with the wording of the French law.

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