ALKO Air Suspension

[Wooie]

Following on from my previous thread i have decided to go for

Air-suspension and i`m considering the following :-

 

AS Air Suspensions.....Warrington.

 

Dunlop Air Suspension.....Rhino Installations.

 

Dunlop Air Suspension......Armitages Ferrybridge.

 

Bearing in mind it will be on a 2006 ALKO Chassis.

 

Has anyone got either of these systems fitted ?

 

All of the reviews seem good but....

 

Actual comments would be nice

 

Regards

 

Graham.

 

 

[p0930]

I think you will find the AS suspension system is the only one specifically made for AlKo chassis. In any event they are clearly the best in the business. Very professional, great after sales and genuinely nice people. They did my van in 2008 and it transformed it. I am not sure if they are back from Croatia yet but e mails will be answered.

[Wooie]

p0930 - 2012-06-28 3:29 PM

 

I think you will find the AS suspension system is the only one specifically made for AlKo chassis. In any event they are clearly the best in the business. Very professional, great after sales and genuinely nice people. They did my van in 2008 and it transformed it. I am not sure if they are back from Croatia yet but e mails will be answered.

 

 

 

Hi Charlie,

they only re-open next Tuesday 3rd July.

 

Thanks for the info, i`ve started looking into it and as far as i can tell

Dunlop also do specific kits in 4 variants for ALKO dependant on the year.

 

P.S. the Scotland trip was fantastic, just a shame it went so quick.

The ferry over from Gills Bay was a good saving ( thank you ) and

we were backed onto to the ferry by the guy that actually CARED !!

and the same bloke on the return journey couldn`t have been better.

 

There`s not many of those people about these days.

 

The spots you mentioned came in very useful and every night on

Orkney was spent wild camping and no problems what so ever.

 

All the best.

 

Graham.

[Keithl]

Hi Graham,

 

I know ours is not an ALKO chassis but I fitted a Dunlop system myself about 2 years ago after a lot of research and have been very pleased with the results.

I bought the system mail order from Marcle Leisure after phoning for advice and they were very helpful. It took me a little over half a day to fit on my own but I do have an Automotive background so understood all the technicalities about the mounting, alignment and routing.

How about asking Dave Newell for a quote to fit a Dunlop system and then having a couple of days in Shropshire?

 

My reason for choosing the Dunlop system was that it appeared to be very well engineered and that the air bellows are 'serviceable' in that you can replace just the rubber bellows section of the air bag if you where unfortunate to suffer a failure. Also the cost was very good from Marcle.

 

Final point is that you will need to inform your insurers that you have modified the vehicle. I did with ours and it made no difference to the premium.

 

Keith.

 

Edit. Forgot to add I went for the simple system with 2 Schrader valves and find it very easy to check pressures and top up with a bicycle 'track' pump if needed. This is probably the best system for you as you can easily have dissimilar pressures to level your MH.

[Derek Uzzell]

The AS Air Suspension kit for a single-axle Al-Ko chassis is shown here. Its quoted cost is £1185 and it's not offered for DIY fitting.

 

http://www.as-airsuspension.co.uk/alko.html

 

As Graham plans to adjust the pressure in the air-bellows to counteract his motorhome's lopsidedness and to raise its rear ground clearance when boarding/leaving a ferry, having an on-board compressor and pressure-gauge panel makes good sense.

 

The equivalent Dunlop product from Marcle Leisure would cost around £1052 (including compressor and twin-gauge panel). This kit is marketed for DIY fitting and the instructions suggest it should not be too difficult to do.

 

http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/alko-assist-upgrade-20022006-p-2190.html

 

http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/pdf/L.AL.02.nl.pdf

 

The Dunlop air-bellows design for an Al-Ko chassis application differs from the bellows used for a more normal beam axle, and I'm not sure if the Al-Ko-appropriate bellows are repairable.

 

The Dunlop systems marketed by Marcle Leisure come from the Netherlands and AS Air Suspension's website mentions their systems "having the expertise of Dutch engineering at its best". This suggests that both systems may be based around Dunlop components.

 

There are some earlier forum threads that mention the AS Air Suspension company and the comments are all positive. (The threads can be retrieved via GOOGLE's Advanced Search facility.)

[Keithl]

Derek,

 

I'm sure an on-board compressor would be lovely to enable you to raise or lower the suspension without leaving the comfort of your drivers seat, but is it really worth doubling the cost of the kit for such luxury?

 

It takes me less than 5 minutes to check and top-up our manual system with a Joe Blow Track pump from Halfords.

After all how long do you spend waiting in the queue to board a ferry, I'm sure at least 10 minutes, and then it will only take seconds to reduce the pressure after disembarking.

 

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

If Graham chooses AS Air Suspension to add air-assistance to his motorhome's rear suspension, a compressor and twin-gauge panel will be intrinsic elements of the system. If he takes the Armitages or Rhino route then, presumably, he could opt for having neither gauges nor compressor. I included a compressor and gauge-panel when I referred to the Marcle Leisure Dunlop system's asking-price just to provide equivalency.

 

Marcle quotes £179.37 for a (basic) Dunlop compressor and £146.40 for a twin-gauge panel. The quoted price of Marcle Leisure's Dunlop kit (without compressor or gauge-panel) for an Al-Ko axle is £794.55, so I don't know how you've concluded that adding an on-board compressor would be "doubling the cost of the kit".

 

I can't put myself in Graham's position because, if I intended to add air-assistance to my (hypothetical) lopsided motorhome's Al-Ko axle, I'd be carrying out the task myself. I'd definitely want the twin-gauge panel and, as I've no interest in bicycles, a £35 bicycle pump would have no attraction for me. I've already got a couple of 12V tyre-inflators that I could use to pressurise the air-bellows via the motorhome's dashboard 12V socket-outlet, so I wouldn't really NEED to have an on-board compressor integrated into the air-assistance system.

 

However, as a dedicated compressor provides the ability to instantly, endlessly and effortlessly fiddle about with the pressures in the air-bellows to match vehicle loading, plus some limited ability to level the vehicle on a slope, and I'm a fiddler by nature (and, luckily, not short of a few quid) I suspect that I'd go for the compressor as well as the twin-gauge panel.

[pepe63xnotuse]

When we had our "basic" Dunlop arrangment fitted,I fully intended to add gauges(and maybe even a pump)but in reality,for our usage,neither has been necessary.....

(....and after all..I havn't got built in gauges and a pump that allows me to constantly monitor/adjust my tyres...)

 

If the installation was being carried out because of constantly grounding out on ferry ramps etc,then fair enough...but as Wooie only really wants the set up in order to help "level" his vehicle,I wouldn't have thought he need to be fiddling with the settings/pressures all *that* often.... :-S

[Wooie]

pepe63 - 2012-06-30 12:17 PM

 

When we had our "basic" Dunlop arrangment fitted,I fully intended to add gauges(and maybe even a pump)but in reality,for our usage,neither has been necessary.....

(....and after all..I havn't got built in gauges and a pump that allows me to constantly monitor/adjust my tyres...)

 

If the installation was being carried out because of constantly grounding out on ferry ramps etc,then fair enough...but as Wooie only really wants the set up in order to help "level" his vehicle,I wouldn't have thought he need to be fiddling with the settings/pressures all *that* often.... :-S

 

 

 

Hi pepe,

 

thank you, this was the type of feed back i was looking for ( actual experience ) is everything.

 

I`ve since found out that the AS air suspension price ( £1, 185 ) does not include fitting !

There is no mention of this on their web-site but i`ve had contact from a person that had

their system fitted and they paid extra for fitting.

Seeing as their system needs a full rear disc, hub etc strip down and the best part of a day

to fit i can`t see it being only " a couple of quid "

 

So that leaves the Dunlop system and the basic system with single gauge is looking good.

I`m find it hard to justify an extra " best part of £400 " to add twin gauges and a compressor.

 

Because it is on a ALKO chassis that puts the price up by over 50% on the standard chassis

and then plus £400 and it`s getting silly

 

What i`m looking to achieve is to even it up ( side to side ) and probably an extra inch or two

at the rear would be very nice. All being well once i`ve found the pressures i`m happy with

it will probably never get changed as the weight does not vary and i can get in and out of my

drive OK.

As you say there is the possibility of adding the twin gauges and compressor if needed at

a later date but i`ll see how i go using the " Joe Blow " ( thanks Keith )first which i already

have.

 

Regards.

 

Graham.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Why have a gauge at all? There is no gauge on your tyres, you simply check the pressure periodically. Take the same line with the air assisters.

 

Also, I'm a little suspicious that the single gauge implies linking the assisters left to right. If you do this you won't be able to apply differing pressures each side to level your van.

 

IMO, all you need it one air assister each side, with one short air line connected to each, terminating in a Schrader valve set into the van skirt beside each wheel arch. Occasional visits with the tyre pressure gauge, while checking the tyre pressures, will be all that is required. I adjust the pressures on ours with a track pump, but even a standard hand held pump is perfectly adequate.

 

The air volume in the assisters is small, relative to the volume of a van, or even a car, tyre, and a few - meaning two or three - strokes of a track pump each side is more than sufficient. My pressure gauge has a release valve on its stem, so I invariably set pressures by over inflating with the pump, and then adjusting down with the gauge. My units are Firestone Driverite, but I don't know if they cater for AlKo chassis.

[Abb]

I think (at least in my case) 'having an on-board compressor and pressure-gauge panel makes good sense' is very true. 3 years ago I fitted AS-Suspension as a DIY on my Rapido on a Merc 315 chassi.

After 3 years of trouble free ride, the system starts to loose pression on one side progressively loosing all air in one side. Had it not been for the visual pressure-gauge, I would've driven the mh with one side totally flat and eventualy would've ruined the inflatable part of the suspension. One of the two one- way valves got some dirt in it or something like that dammaging the internal seal. The loss of air was very slow and progressive almost a month from 3.5bar to 0. With the onboard compressor and pressure-gauge I was able to monitor the pressure and pomp it up as required for over 4 months till I got back from my trip and got in touch with AS-Suspension in warwick for the required one way valve.

The new valve was fitted over a month ago and would you beleive it, it started playing up again. I swapped the valves 3 times and always the side fitted with the new valve is the side that has lost pressure. So I'm waiting for the opening of AS-Suspension on the 3rd July to order maybe 2 or 3 valves fit one and keep two spares. So back to my point about going all the way and fit an onboard compressor and a pressure-gauge. It's money well spent. unless of course one is prepared to check the suspension every time before a drive or run the risk of driving with flat bellows (I think that's what they are called?). Just my pennys worth of thaughts. ;-)

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2012-06-30 5:14 PM

 

Why have a gauge at all? There is no gauge on your tyres, you simply check the pressure periodically. Take the same line with the air assisters.

 

Also, I'm a little suspicious that the single gauge implies linking the assisters left to right. If you do this you won't be able to apply differing pressures each side to level your van.

 

IMO, all you need it one air assister each side, with one short air line connected to each, terminating in a Schrader valve set into the van skirt beside each wheel arch. Occasional visits with the tyre pressure gauge, while checking the tyre pressures, will be all that is required. I adjust the pressures on ours with a track pump, but even a standard hand held pump is perfectly adequate.

 

The air volume in the assisters is small, relative to the volume of a van, or even a car, tyre, and a few - meaning two or three - strokes of a track pump each side is more than sufficient. My pressure gauge has a release valve on its stem, so I invariably set pressures by over inflating with the pump, and then adjusting down with the gauge. My units are Firestone Driverite, but I don't know if they cater for AlKo chassis.

 

If Graham plans to raise the rear of his motorhome on a permanent basis as well as to correct its current leaning characteristic, then I tend to agree. All that's needed are individual air-lines to the rear air-bellows to permit the latter to be inflated to whatever pressures prove necessary to gain sufficient rear-end clearance to avoid grounding on ferry ramps and to address the lopsideness. So no pump or gauges required.

 

If the plan was to increase/decrease the pressure in the bellows according to circumstances, then a system with gauges and a compressor would become more attractive. The greater the likelihood that the pressures would be altered regularly the more worthwhile the extra expense of gauges/compressor would become.

 

There are pictures of a Dunlop-based system on the Armitage Trailers website

 

http://www.armitagetrailers.com/DunloponAlKo.htm

[p0930]

Sent you a pm Graham. Incidentally Armitages built and fitted my towbar and am quite pleased with it, but I am sure you will have seen recent posts about their work on a frames which does nothing for the attitude o the firm.

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-07-01 8:35 AM......................If the plan was to increase/decrease the pressure in the bellows according to circumstances, then a system with gauges and a compressor would become more attractive. The greater the likelihood that the pressures would be altered regularly the more worthwhile the extra expense of gauges/compressor would become.

 

There are pictures of a Dunlop-based system on the Armitage Trailers website

 

http://www.armitagetrailers.com/DunloponAlKo.htm

Totally agree, Derek. Ours is to raise the tail of the van to near its unladen height which, given the weight of the conversion, is in any case part loaded relative to Fords suspension design. If its to be adjusted periodically while travelling, I think I'd just go for one of the automatic versions and leave it to get on with it. But, it does add to complexity.

[Wooie]

Brian Kirby - 2012-07-01 9:34 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-07-01 8:35 AM......................If the plan was to increase/decrease the pressure in the bellows according to circumstances, then a system with gauges and a compressor would become more attractive. The greater the likelihood that the pressures would be altered regularly the more worthwhile the extra expense of gauges/compressor would become.

 

There are pictures of a Dunlop-based system on the Armitage Trailers website

 

http://www.armitagetrailers.com/DunloponAlKo.htm

Totally agree, Derek. Ours is to raise the tail of the van to near its unladen height which, given the weight of the conversion, is in any case part loaded relative to Fords suspension design. If its to be adjusted periodically while travelling, I think I'd just go for one of the automatic versions and leave it to get on with it. But, it does add to complexity.

 

 

 

Thanks for the responses lads.

Once i`ve got my pressures correct, ride height, side to side, comfort etc. i`ll probably not mess about with it much, apart from a regular check on the pressure just to make sure everything is ok and a couple of times a year for ferries etc.

 

By the way Brian the single gauge kit has 1 gauge and 2 valves so you can inflate both sides at once

or each side individually by opening and closing the respective valve, this way you can have off-set

pressures.

 

Regards.

[Brian Kirby]

Abb - 2012-06-30 9:46 PM

 

I think (at least in my case) 'having an on-board compressor and pressure-gauge panel makes good sense' is very true. 3 years ago I fitted AS-Suspension as a DIY on my Rapido on a Merc 315 chassi.

After 3 years of trouble free ride, the system starts to loose pression on one side progressively loosing all air in one side. Had it not been for the visual pressure-gauge, I would've driven the mh with one side totally flat and eventualy would've ruined the inflatable part of the suspension. One of the two one- way valves got some dirt in it or something like that dammaging the internal seal. The loss of air was very slow and progressive almost a month from 3.5bar to 0. With the onboard compressor and pressure-gauge I was able to monitor the pressure and pomp it up as required for over 4 months till I got back from my trip and got in touch with AS-Suspension in warwick for the required one way valve.

The new valve was fitted over a month ago and would you beleive it, it started playing up again. I swapped the valves 3 times and always the side fitted with the new valve is the side that has lost pressure. So I'm waiting for the opening of AS-Suspension on the 3rd July to order maybe 2 or 3 valves fit one and keep two spares. So back to my point about going all the way and fit an onboard compressor and a pressure-gauge. It's money well spent. unless of course one is prepared to check the suspension every time before a drive or run the risk of driving with flat bellows (I think that's what they are called?). Just my pennys worth of thaughts. ;-)

Then I think the problem is not the valve. You seem not to have identified that there was actually dirt in the valve: rather, that appears to have been an assumption.

 

The air side of the installation is essentially simple, but it relies on airtight connections throughout. If dirt has entered the system, it will have entered either during original fitting, or via the pump. In either case it will have been distributed through the system, so it is illogical that just one valve in one location should consistently fail due to distributed dirt.

 

You changed the valve (several time as it happens) yet the problem persisted, it therefore seems to me that the problem is not the valve. I'd suggest you stop banging your head on that wall, and start looking elsewhere for one that is softer! :-)

 

Broadly, there are three possibilities: 1 - a leaking connection on the leg that feeds the deflating bellows unit, including the connection to the bellows, 2 - a damaged and leaking air line: possibly, as the system was OK for three years, one that is chafing on a sharp edge somewhere, and 3 - a leaking bellows unit, possibly due to damage from road debris, most probably when wet. Have you tried applying a soap solution at all possible leak points with the system at maximum pressure, and looking for bubbles?

[Wooie]

Hi Brian,

 

this is the valve in question.

[Keithl]

And, I'm afraid, Abb's experience entirely backs up my decision to KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).

 

I have 2 air bellows, 2 lengths of nylon line and 2 Schrader inflation valves. A total of 4 possible leak points! I don't have isolation valves or gauges in the system, I use a dial type pressure gauge to check the pressure and the aforementioned Joe Blow pump for inflation.

 

I always check the pressure before any outing as the system tends to lose 2 or 3 psi when left standing for a month but then I don't re-check until the next trip.

 

So IMO the best advice is KISS!

 

Keith.

[Mel B]

I agree with Brian - it can't be the valves - for the 1st to leak is unfortunate, the 2nd would make it very suspect, but for the 3rd/more it is extremely unlikely and I'd be looking elsewhere for the cause.

[Brian Kirby]

Wooie - 2012-07-01 10:05 AM

 

Hi Brian,

 

this is the valve in question.

 

Well, it's your shout, but that looks like seven more leakage points than mine has! :-) I'm with Keith on this: KISS, KISS! :-D

[Derek Uzzell]

Just for interest's sake really...

 

Every now and again I chuck away my oldest copies of MMM magazine but, before doing so I browse rapidly through them to see if there's anything worth keeping.

 

In the September 2007 issue I noticed a "Marketplace" piece on the air-assistance systems marketed by AS Air Suspension. At that time a 'standard' DIY kit cost from £377 and from £653 for a DIY kit for a single-axle Al-Ko chassis. Fitting at AS Air Suspension's workshop would add £60 or £240 respectively. DIY fitting time was estimated at 2 to 3 hours (standard kit), but 10 to 12 hours for an Al-Ko chassis. An installation 'home visit' by a fitter was a possibility.

 

A "Comfort Package" (£164) could also be specified, comprising a high-capacity compressor, air-tank, automatic pressure control and twin-gauge control-unit. Air-bellows were guaranteed under normal use for 5 years and the remainder of the kit for 2 years.

 

Claimed benefits were raising a motorhome's rear to avoid grounding at ferry-ports, correcting lateral tilt due to uneven loading, levelling on slight slopes at campsites, improved cross-wind stability, reduced cornering roll and a more comfortable rise.

[Wooie]

Hi Derek,

still not had a response to my e-mail to AS but the web-site does say that they only

re-open tomorrow. I`ll wait and see.

 

The system i need is the AS200311 priced at £1,185 but i don`t know if that

includes fitting or not. There is no mention ( as far as i can see ) of a extra charge

for fitting but i`ve been told that there probably is.

 

As your post says it`s not a quick job fitting the kit to the ALKO Chassis, so on that

basis i can`t seeing being next to nothing, but, you never know, stranger things happen.

 

I`ll come back when i get a response and let people know.

 

Regards.

[Brian Kirby]

I understand the Firestone Driverite kits may also be available for AlKo chassis. Autovan services should be able to help. One member here (smifee) had Driverite fitted to an AlKo chassis van by Essanjay in Poole. Why not PM him to see how it is working out? If available they do the simple kit with no gauge and no changeover valve. Ditto Dunlop, although they seem to insist the inflation valves are mounted side by side on their bracket, which means connecting one air-line across the chassis, which seems to me to add vulnerability.

[p0930]

Graham, some info that may be use to you, the Dunlop system lifts your suspension by about 25mm. The AS system by 80mm. Quite a difference depending on what you need.

[Wooie]

p0930 - 2012-07-03 12:10 AM

 

Graham, some info that may be use to you, the Dunlop system lifts your suspension by about 25mm. The AS system by 80mm. Quite a difference depending on what you need.

 

 

 

Hi Charlie,

thanks for that, it`s something that no-one else has mentioned.

 

The 25mm you mention is that at the lift point where the bellows

are ?

 

These Castaways sit way too low at the best of times

 

Seeing as i`m looking for a permanent lift of about 25mm or so

with a little more on the off-side, this could have a huge bearing

on my choice.

 

Regards

 

Graham.