ALKO Air Suspension

[pepe63xnotuse]

We fitted our Dunlop set-up because we'd occasionally ground out the rear bumper when pulling onto our (very steep!)drive...and at 40psi,they lift it 2 1/2" - 3" at the rear...

 

(...and although we were more than happy with "handling" to start with,the difference that the air assistors made was a real bonus..)

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2012-07-02 5:39 PM

 

I understand the Firestone Driverite kits may also be available for AlKo chassis. Autovan services should be able to help. One member here (smifee) had Driverite fitted to an AlKo chassis van by Essanjay in Poole. Why not PM him to see how it is working out? If available they do the simple kit with no gauge and no changeover valve. Ditto Dunlop, although they seem to insist the inflation valves are mounted side by side on their bracket, which means connecting one air-line across the chassis, which seems to me to add vulnerability.

 

As far as I'm aware there are currently just two air-assistance systems that can be retro-fitted to a motorhome with Al-Ko chassis - the AS Air Suspension and Dunlop-manufactured systems. There does not seem to be anything about Al-ko chassis on the Driverite website and the Essanjay website

 

http://www.essanjay.co.uk/services/suspension.php

 

refers only to the Dunlop product regarding Al-Ko air assistance.

 

I can find two relevant 'smifee' references http://tinyurl.com/cqm5aro but neither seems to indicate that Essanjay fitted the original 'driverite' system.

 

Regarding AS Air Suspension's quoted £1185 for a single-axle Al-Ko chassis system, if installation involves a considerable number of man-hours (as comments on other forums suggest), it's likely that there will be a significant additional fitting-charge. The £1185 figure might also exclude VAT.

 

Personally, I won't e-mail companies for information if I can avoid it. Besides fitting-charges and VAT questions, I'd want to ask AS Air Suspension who manufactures their system (and makes the air-bellows), what advantages their system might have over the Dunlop product (p0930 mentions a considerable extra 'lift'), why installation apparently takes so long compared (apparently) to the Dunlop system, what durations, terms and conditions apply to any guarantees, whether it's possible to opt for a no-gauge/no-compressor system (and, if so, what would be the cost). Such points are better covered quickly and comprehensively via a telephone conversation.

 

 

[Keithl]

Charlie, Where do you get your quoted '25 mm' for the Dunlop system? I only ask as I have never seen a figure quoted by Dunlop.

 

For info I run my Dunlop system at 40 psi and find it lifts the rear wheelarch height by around 20 - 25 mm. As the system has a max operating pressure of 100 psi this could give a theoretical lift of approx 50 - 60 mm at the wheelarch. This would then multiply up to give a far greater lift at the rear bumper of say 100 - 200 mm?

Surely this is more than enough for any MH?

 

Just my thoughts,

Keith.

[Wooie]

Keithl - 2012-07-03 8:40 AM

 

Charlie, Where do you get your quoted '25 mm' for the Dunlop system? I only ask as I have never seen a figure quoted by Dunlop.

 

For info I run my Dunlop system at 40 psi and find it lifts the rear wheelarch height by around 20 - 25 mm. As the system has a max operating pressure of 100 psi this could give a theoretical lift of approx 50 - 60 mm at the wheelarch. This would then multiply up to give a far greater lift at the rear bumper of say 100 - 200 mm?

Surely this is more than enough for any MH?

 

Just my thoughts,

Keith.

 

 

 

Hi Keith,

the figures you say 20-25mm at the wheel arch which will obviously equate to more at the rear bumper

due to the distance is the sort of figure i was looking to obtain

.

Having said that i will need say 30-40mm approx on the off ( heavy ) side to maintain a level stance.

 

If as Charlie says the Dunlop system only lifts 25mm then that system is no good for me.

 

This is now the sort of responses i was looking for when i originally posted.

 

Regards

 

Graham.

[Keithl]

Graham,

 

If you view the "AuxiliaryAirSuspensionCatalogue" which is the first download on this Link you will see on page 10 that Dunlop quote a fitting time of "less than 2 hours" for their system on an Al-Ko chassis. This appears a lot less than the AS Suspension system.

 

Am I right in assuming your MH is a 2006 from earlier comments? If so it appears to require an L.AL.02 system costing £795 from Marcle Leisure.

 

One point I have just noted on the Marcle website, and specific to AL-Ko systems, is the following...

 

IMPORTANT - We will not supply any AL-KO assist kit without a gauge kit or a compressor kit, as the system needs to be made as easy as possible for the user to check the air pressure in the system as there will not be any warrantee for damaged air bags/springs caused by under inflation.

 

Keith.

[Wooie]

Hi Keith,

 

yes that is the right kit ( L.AL.02 ) £795 and the single valve assembly is £67.82.

 

I`ve got a fully fitted price done on my drive at home for the kit and valve etc. etc.

of £995.

 

So just £140 for fitting including not having to take the vehicle anywhere and then

not having to " lose " yourself for a day doesn`t seem to bad.

 

I`m hoping that this kit is up to the job

 

p.s. still haven`t spoke to AS ( permanently engaged )

 

Regards.

[Keithl]

Graham,

 

I'd say that fully fitted price looks good and you don't have to do anything other than be at home!

 

Only thing I would do is check the fitter is quoting for the single gauge and not just the basic 2 valves (heeding the warning posted on Marcles website).

 

And the Dunlop kit for our Merc was very well engineered so I'm sure you will be pleased with the results.

 

Keith.

 

PS Dont forget to tell your insurance company you have modified the vehicle.

[Wooie]

Keith,

 

have you tried going higher on the pressure just to see what height you can achieve ?

 

I appreciate that all vehicles are different, but i`d still be interested

 

Many thanks

 

Graham

[Keithl]

No I haven't.

 

40 psi was the recommended starting pressure and gave me a decent increase over the original height so I have never tried more.

 

Next time I get the pump out I could try but it's unlikely to be for a few days.

 

Keith.

[pepe63xnotuse]

One obvious thing to remenber,is that once the "bellows" are inflated,doubling the pressure doesn't *necessarily* mean that you'll double the "height gain".....

 

Just out of curiosity,I did pop out earlier this mornin'..and had a "quick play" with our's.. :$

 

5psi..700mm @ wheel arch

40psi..725mm@ wheel arch (Usually around what I run it at).

70psi..735mm@ wheel arch (My air pumps struggled at this point! (lol) )

 

This is on a 4mtr wheelbase,3.850kg Renault chassis /1.9mtr overhang(rear gas locker and underbed storage)

 

A very rough'n'ready "test" admittedly,as our's isn't an Alko chassis,has a *relatively* short overhang AND I only did the one side(..also it doesn't sit very level/even when on the drive..)

 

But at 40/45psi,it has raised the rear bumper a good 60-70mm from where it was, "pre-air assistors".. ;-)

 

Oops! I've crossed posts with Brian..... (lol)

[thebishbus]

Hi . I run my Dunlop system at 30 psi, this raises the height at the wheel arch by 17mm. As a matter of interest I have just tried other pressures :- 40psi = 25mm , 60psi =35mm , 80psi =40mm.

 

Brian B.

 

ps I see Pepe 63 has done something similar.

 

Just another thought, raising the back could lower your headlamp beam , you need to check this before your next M.O.T

[Derek Uzzell]

Keithl's Dunlop system is installed on a Mercedes-based motorhome (RWD, live rear axle) and will share few (if any) common parts with a Dunlop system appropriate for an Al-Ko chassis. Whatever lift Keithl's Dunlop system can attain, there's absolutely no guarantee that a Dunlop system for an Al-Ko chassis will be able to do the same.

 

I doubt that obtaining the required 'lift' on Graham's motorhome would be an issue with either a Dunlop or AS Air Suspension system. The only obvious downside is that, if a lot of lift is needed and a high air-bellows pressure proves necessary to provide this, the vehicle's ride could be adversely affected.

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-07-03 8:31 AM........................As far as I'm aware there are currently just two air-assistance systems that can be retro-fitted to a motorhome with Al-Ko chassis - the AS Air Suspension and Dunlop-manufactured systems. There does not seem to be anything about Al-ko chassis on the Driverite website and the Essanjay website

 

http://www.essanjay.co.uk/services/suspension.php

 

refers only to the Dunlop product regarding Al-Ko air assistance.

 

I can find two relevant 'smifee' references http://tinyurl.com/cqm5aro but neither seems to indicate that Essanjay fitted the original 'driverite' system......................

Regarding the apparent availability of suitable systems, I agree. However, I did a "Google" on Driverite + AlKo and found another forum (can't remember which, but not MHF) on which smifee (complete with his doggy avatar!) said his van was on AlKo, had Driverite, and that it was fitted by Essanjay. Since it appeared to broaden the range a bit, and since my Driverites have been fine to date (and at least for the Transit, provide the simple installation I have), I thought they may give Graham an extra arrow for his bow. However, I'm sure Driverite, Autovan Services, or Essanjay would be able to clarify the present position. If it is a viable alternative, my impression was that a DIY kit should be available (mine was, and was relatively easy to fit) with a useful cost saving over the others.

 

I would add that I think Marcle's reasoning for needing a pump and valves is pure bovine manure! By that reasoning, to protect us from the effects of driving around on flat tyres, we'd all have to fit run-flats, or a built in pressure warning system. So, cobblers, I think! :-)

[Wooie]

I`ve now spoken to AS Air Suspension and there is an extra charge for fitting.

 

Each fitting is different due to the different chassis etc.

 

2006 ALKO chassis Single axle........£399. that`s with 8 hours fitting time approx.

 

So £1,185 for the kit and £399 fitting comes to ......£1,584......ouch !!

 

£995 for the Dunlop Kit seems very good but if it will not do what i

want it to then it`s £995 down the drain.

 

Now i really need to work out which set up will do what i want.

 

If anyone else has either of these systems fitted on a ALKO chassis i would

be very grateful if they could spare a few moments to get some measurements

at different pressures.

 

The Dunlop kit will need to be at it`s maximum pressure on 1 side ( i think )

and a little less on the other to achieve the result i will be looking for i.e.

a little more ground clearance and to level up side to side.

 

The AS system will only need to be at less than half pressure to achieve the

same result.

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Graham.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

I hate to say this Graham, but this seems to me to be fast approaching the point at which the replacement AlKo axle looks better value. Your existing axle seems still to have a strange and unresolved tendency to stick after you use ramps. I still suspect that will become worse with time, rather than better.

 

I believe AlKo axles were capable of being set up to varying tensions to correct ride height, though I don't know whether that is still the case. However, if it is, adjustment of the torsion bars should logically raise the tail and correct the list.

 

Presently, you apparently have only a telephone conversation with a single agent as a guide for the cost of replacement. Might it be worth talking to AlKo UK's technical folk to see if they can advise an alternative approach and give some idea of the cost?

 

Failing that, to talk to more than one AlKo agent about replacing the axle, to see if their costs are comparable. It follows that you'll need to take your van for evaluation before you get reliable prices: an off the cuff guide over the 'phone is useless as they won't have seen what type/year/model is involved or how easy access under your van will be.

 

It seems to me that you may end up spending more than half what the new axle would cost on a palliative that ultimately may not provide the cure you seek. Then, you'd have to get the axle done in any case, leaving you with an expensive and largely redundant secondary air assistance system.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Wooie - 2012-07-03 4:15 PM

 

....the Dunlop Kit seems very good but if it will not do what i

want it to then it`s £995 down the drain...

 

......The Dunlop kit will need to be at it`s maximum pressure on 1 side ( i think )

and a little less on the other to achieve the result i will be looking for i.e.

a little more ground clearance and to level up side to side.

 

The AS system will only need to be at less than half pressure to achieve the

same result.

 

 

Graham..

Just out of curiosity,where's this "doubt" about the Dunlop kits originated from?..Has it come from Alko..?

(..or just from someone who doesn't sell Dunlop stuff? ;-) )

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2012-07-03 12:16 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-07-03 8:31 AM........................As far as I'm aware there are currently just two air-assistance systems that can be retro-fitted to a motorhome with Al-Ko chassis - the AS Air Suspension and Dunlop-manufactured systems. There does not seem to be anything about Al-ko chassis on the Driverite website and the Essanjay website

 

http://www.essanjay.co.uk/services/suspension.php

 

refers only to the Dunlop product regarding Al-Ko air assistance.

 

I can find two relevant 'smifee' references http://tinyurl.com/cqm5aro but neither seems to indicate that Essanjay fitted the original 'driverite' system......................

 

Regarding the apparent availability of suitable systems, I agree. However, I did a "Google" on Driverite + AlKo and found another forum (can't remember which, but not MHF) on which smifee (complete with his doggy avatar!) said his van was on AlKo, had Driverite, and that it was fitted by Essanjay. Since it appeared to broaden the range a bit, and since my Driverites have been fine to date (and at least for the Transit, provide the simple installation I have), I thought they may give Graham an extra arrow for his bow. However, I'm sure Driverite, Autovan Services, or Essanjay would be able to clarify the present position. If it is a viable alternative, my impression was that a DIY kit should be available (mine was, and was relatively easy to fit) with a useful cost saving over the others.

 

I would add that I think Marcle's reasoning for needing a pump and valves is pure bovine manure! By that reasoning, to protect us from the effects of driving around on flat tyres, we'd all have to fit run-flats, or a built in pressure warning system. So, cobblers, I think! :-)

 

I found a 2005 MHF 'smifee' reference that confirms what you've just said

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-7464-days0-orderasc-0.html

 

GOOGLE-ing on "drive-rite al-ko" retrieves some details - the kit reference is W21-760-3470 and GOOGLE-ing on "firestone W21-760-3470" retrieves additional data.

 

I didn't find any evidence that this kit is currently marketed in the UK, but (as you advise) Driverite, Autovan Services or Essanjay should be able to confirm the present position.

[Brian Kirby]

Well found! However, it was deffo not MHF where I saw it, so he's said it twice! Quite possible Driverite found minimal demand for the kit and have dropped it in the meantime, or Essanjay sourced direct from Germany. I guess the other possibility is that they don't have a TA cert for the AlKo version, although that shouldn't be a problem for Graham.

[p0930]

The difference in heights achievable is purely from my own observation and research prior to fitting my own. There is no question about raising "doubts" about the Dunlop system, I am merely trying to pass on my own experience in considering what Graham needs. I appreciate the difference in cost is a consideration but I can only speak as a regular user of ferries and some of the roads and access we require to contend with up here. I have found the ASSystem meets all my need and has now been fitted for four years with no problems whatsoever. It will be down to the OP to decide what he needs. I suspect some of the advice being offered whilst well intentioned is causing some confusion. One thing I can confirm is the ride height does not increase exponentially with increased pressure. Cheapest is not always best value and with at I will allow Graham to consider his options.

[Wooie]

This is now getting silly.

 

CASE CLOSED !!!!!