plinkplonk321 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Hi, we are hoping to buy a motorhome next Spring with a view to travelling around the UK then Europe for at least 6 months. We have made a start by looking at a few privately and at dealerships and of course ebay. Our current favourite is the Autotrail Dakota/Mohican or the Cheyenne version with a garage. We liked a Ford Laika X700 and like to quality of the Hymers. I have determined that I would like a fixed double ground floor bed and a dinette with opposing long benches for lounging around on in the evenings. We have two mountain bikes and my husband wants to take a small lightweight motorbike with us. The motorhomes with garages are probably most suitable but the space they take up might be too much of a compromise...we are going to research towbar motorcycle carriers - not sure if they would take two push bikes and a small motorbike though?....we are becoming familiar with the different forms of heating (gas/diesel) and toilets and im sure theres much more to learn. The main worry I have is how easy/difficult it is to find places to park up overnight which are free? As an experiment after reading a post about wildcamping in Derbyshire (where we live) we visited a few recomended car parks in the Matlock/Cromford area. The car park signs gave the tariff for permitted vehicles (cars, motorbikes,LGV, HGV, Coaches and minibuses) but none mention motorhomes. The person at the visitors centre wasnt sure...I rang the Tourist Info office in Ashbourne and was told that no Derbyshire Dales owned Car Parks allow vehiclesto be slept in overnight regardless of paying for parking! We came away quite deflated and envisage spending our time away dodging the law/feeling unble to relax incase we are contravening some law or other?! Then I read a few blogs about just how free and easy it all is......what is the reality? Is it easier in Europe that UK>? If its only feesible if you pay for a proper site? Searching the internet it appears that £15 - £20 per night is about average - but even allowing worst case senario £25 per night thats.... £175 per week / £758 per month...more than we pay in rent for our 4 bed house (i know thats not the point, but it is a point....) Im hoping to hear from someone who can honestly say how it is........surely paying £15 for a space on a field with no facilities or hook up would feel like robbery if you can hide it behind the odd hedge for free? Please give us some encouragement and excuse our naivity xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Not a point at all......you are comparing apples with oranges. There are specific wildcamping sites and forums. Nothing stopping you pulling in somewhere quiet and chancing it..... You will find in mainland Europe Aires/stellplatz/Sostas from free to 3/5/7/8/10/12 20/25 € a night. French municipal camp sites from about 12€. all singing and dancing site with all amenities from 30 - 60€ You tell me where a family of four can spend a night on a fully equipped site with pools/sports facilities restaurants and beach for £50 a night..I think it is a bargain! UK probably the most motorhome unfriendly country in Europe. If you join the CC club and CCC you get acess to there "certified locations" which tend to be around the £10 a night mark. and about as good as it can possibly get over here unfortunately.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Don't be put off - it is VERY easy to wildcamp in mainland Europe (Incidentally, the UK is not separate to Europe, it is a part of Europe.....I think you perhaps meant to say "mainland Europe"). We regularly wildcamp for longish tours ( month plus) at a time all over France, here in Spain, and Portugal.......indeed there are loads and loads of free aires over here, particularly in France, specifically for motorhomes to park/sleep in overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 You are opening a minefield, so be prepared to duck! :-D Yes, there is wild camping, which I define (in this context) as parking a motorhome for at least one night in a place where there is no provision for so doing. There are also laws of trespass, or similar, and municipal bye-laws, in all countries, so it is not possible to just stop wherever, and assume you will not be asked to move. There are camp-sites all over, where you can stay as long as you like providing you are prepared to pay. Between the two are overnighting places, some specifically for motorhomes, some not. These are mainly in France (aires camping-car), Germany (stellplatze), and Italy (aree di sosta), with a few in Spain, and I believe now also in Portugal. Most limit how long you can stay; some are free, and some charge; some have water and electricity available, some do not; and on some either may be free, while on others you will have to pay. Most will have a place to empty toilet waste and grey waste. There are thousands of motorhomes on Europe's roads, and they are prone to "doughnutting" various areas - usually the same areas as everyone else also wants to "doughnut". Tens of large white boxes in one place becomes a nuisance for others, and some motorhomers have insanitary habits, so wherever motorhomes gather there are restrictions. You will find little to no opportunity for casual stopping along the Cote d-Azur, for example. So, if you want the freedom to stop as and where you choose, you'll just have to prioritise areas where no-one much goes, and you will be unlikely to be bothered - so long as you have correctly read the countryside. For example, grouse moors can look isolated and deserted, but don't expect to be left in peace on a grouse moor: you will be highly likely to be shooed away by a nice man with a shot-gun! :-) In principle, providing you observe any restrictions and cause no obstruction, it is legal to park in any urban road in France, and to remain so parked for (I think) seven days. After that you may be asked to move off. However, you must park, and not camp, meaning only the wheels of your van must be in contact with the ground, no awning must be extended, and no furniture or other camping paraphernalia must be placed outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plinkplonk321 Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 thanks for explaining where the UK is, I am however already aware that it is in Europe, I have travelled extensively around the world but never in a motorhome. I am also aware of what holidaying as a family of four costs having done this too.. I happen to think that comparing the rental cost of a home in the UK for a month to site costs for a motorhome for a month is sensible? Maybe I should not look at having a budget, throw caution to the wind and get into debt for the first time in my life like everyone else seems to? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 But your comparison makes no sense whatsoever..How can you compare renting a house with a camping pitch. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plinkplonk321 Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 comparing the costs - its simple budgeting surely? I know what money I have coming in now per month and what it will be when i go travelling. I know what rent I pay now and what my bills, food and drink needs cost. I need to know worst case senario what site costs will be to allow a further calculation for diesel, food, alcohol, motor insurance, potential breakdown costs etc etc. I am not comparing the two lifestyles, just what pound for pound / euro for euro my moeny will be spent on. There is a big difference beween paying £0.00 per night or £20 per night accomodation costs over a 6 month period - or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Again,. you cant compare apples with oranges, you have to compare like with like. no connection between what you pay in rent long term and camping... Its a different commercial relationships, and you still have to pay rent/mortgage when away if you are so concerned with cost maybe its not for you.... where does it say motorhoming is cheap. we have already explained the cost of the various styles of camping, its up to you to do the math and get an idea of expenditure. Spain very cheap compared to France for instance, cote de asur and arm and a leg etc...etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Simple question really but the answer must be you cannot always expect to stay for nothing. In europe, and I do not regard the UK as europe, just a personal thing, you can stay, as others have said in parking places provided by various communities especially for this. These places are sometimes free but more often have a small charge for electric, water and rubbish disposal. Their are cheap campsites all over europe from around 12 euro a night, at the current rate about £9 which is pretty good value. In the UK, which I do not find as motorhome unfriendly as some do, it is a little more difficult. We do not have the same system although a few places are gradually appearing, but both main clubs have a system of cheap sites from around £7-£10 a night, again good value. You can stay in various laybys if you wish both in the UK and europe but it depends what you want from you holiday, to us the campsite is part of the holiday and a layby is not for us but some seem not to mind. As Eddie has said though who said motorhoming was cheap. While it is good value compared to other types of holiday it will still cost you money and some of that will go on sites regardless. We averaged last year 9 euro a night over a total of four months in europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolly1965 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Many people think that motorhoming is a low cost hobby. It is not. I have to say that I was surprised at the cost of some sites. Even motorhomes themselves are extortionately expensive - you could buy a base van and a caravan to the spec of your choice and it would still be cheaper than a comparitive motorhome. I noticed on some threads that some pubs are offering free overnight parking. Perhaps if someone started a website listing these sites it would become a growing trend. Free overnight parking, for one night only, sounds like it would benefit the pub too. I'd be tempted to try out a pint and a meal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Bolly1965 - 2012-07-08 5:21 PM I noticed on some threads that some pubs are offering free overnight parking. Perhaps if someone started a website listing these sites it would become a growing trend. Free overnight parking, for one night only, sounds like it would benefit the pub too. I'd be tempted to try out a pint and a meal If you Google " nightstops " I think you may find info on overnight stopping places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 plinkplonk321 - 2012-07-08 2:39 PM comparing the costs - its simple budgeting surely? I know what money I have coming in now per month and what it will be when i go travelling. I know what rent I pay now and what my bills, food and drink needs cost. I need to know worst case senario what site costs will be to allow a further calculation for diesel, food, alcohol, motor insurance, potential breakdown costs etc etc. I am not comparing the two lifestyles, just what pound for pound / euro for euro my moeny will be spent on. There is a big difference beween paying £0.00 per night or £20 per night accomodation costs over a 6 month period - or am I missing something? Forgive me, but you seem not to want to know the worst case scenario, because in your original post you have stated what it will be. You stay on camp sites all the time at a cost you have reasonably sketched out. In cost terms, that is the worst case. IMO, you are trying to budget far too closely. Cost of sites, food, meals, booze, and fuel are not constant in "Europe". They vary (as from your extensive travelling experience you presumably will have noticed) both within countries, and from country to country, and across the seasons. Some campsites would cost you £30-40 per night in July/August. We found sites in Italy to be more expensive than almost anywhere else in Europe. Around Rome, Florence, Venice, Pisa even more at the peak. Out of season I still reckon the asking price on Italian sites is around €25. At the other end of the scale, ACSI is a Dutch organisation that runs a membership card based low season discount scheme that can get you a site for as little as €12 (usually plus tourist tax). Some aires etc are free, others may charge, usually in the region of €7 to €10 per night. However, we stopped at a sosta in Matera (you'll know where that is!) with no facilities that wanted €20 per night. No campsite in Matera. If you want to visit Matera you either pay the price or you don't go. My opinion is that it would be foolish in the extreme to assume you will get away with never spending time on a campsite: where for example will you do washing? You also need to allow for the fact that in some European countries, mainly those ex "Iron Curtain" countries, wild camping is forbidden. Doesn't stop some doing it. It just depends on how you feel about being told to move on by a man with a gun. None of us can know where you might go (countries), or what interests you. So how can we possibly give any more than generalised information? Some are happy to stop anywhere they see a space, and chance being told to move, others would be mortified at the thought they had caused nuisance. Which group do you fit? Nothing is constant, or consistent. My advice would be to budget for always using sites as you assume above, and treat each night off site as a bonus contribution to a better bottle of wine, or a meal out, or whatever you prefer. After all, your van is plainly going to cost you several tens of thousands of pounds, so why fret over a few hundred on a trip. Remember, you won't be spending money at home while you are away, so you largely swap the at home costs for the away costs. The difference isn't that bad. Unless, that is you have relatively low incomes, but substantial available capital. If that is the case I would suggest either not getting a van at all, or else getting a much smaller and cheaper van to give yourselves a relatively generous cushion against unexpected expenses. Oh yes, and check your health insurance requirements carefully as well, though I'm sure you will know all about that. Six month trips aren't that popular with the insurers. Ditto your house insurances, they don't like you being away for extended periods. But again, you'll already know that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-07-08 3:33 PM If you are so concerned with cost maybe its not for you.... where does it say motorhoming is cheap. QUOTE] Spot on Eddie, whilst you can keep costs down using wild/aires/cl's - motorhoming is not cheap. It may well seem like it at first sight from the outside, if for example you've been used to a diet of package holidays/B&B's and someone tells you truthfully that you can stay on a "site" for under a tenner. But then then the not so small matters of, oh blimey the list is endless, fuel, insurance, running repairs, food, equipment zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz You get the point I'm sure :D Good luck with your decision nonetheless. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Bolly1965 - 2012-07-08 5:21 PM I noticed on some threads that some pubs are offering free overnight parking. There's nothing like the personal touch, I've done it a few times. If you've identified a pub say that is near to your route, give them a ring before your arrival and ask the question. Or of course just ask on spec if you spot somewhere you like. In these challenging financial times it would be a hard nosed Landlord that would turn you down, restrictions excepted of course. I asked one Landlord, explaining that we'd be eating as well as taking a drink or 2 and he said he wasn't bothered in the slightest what we spent, just as long as we bought a drink and parked sensibly. He struck me as the sort that if I'd have asked if I could run a hook up lead and a water pipe to a tap he'd have said, just get on with it mate. Another took some time to understand what we wanted, (honestly) but again, no problem at all. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Hi, We regularly use Aires de Service (France), Sostas (Italy) and Stellplatze (Germany). If you google those terms you will get more information than you can pobably handle! A website dedicated to wildcamping in the UK and mainland Europe is : http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/ Hope this helps. Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Just took this off Motorhomefacts. Now that is Wild Camping!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I'm sitting in the van on Dover seafront right now, where we'll stay the night before getting the 8.25am P&O. Does that count as wild camping? If not, how about the fact that for the next three weeks we've budgetted exactly ZERO for campsite fees - the odd few Euros for some Aires, and possibly one or two nights on sites, will come out of our spending money budget! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-07-08 3:33 PM if you are so concerned with cost maybe its not for you.... where does it say motorhoming is cheap. Some of us do it on the cheap :D...................We expect to get by quite comfortably on a budget of 12k when we start long terming ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 you ask wether paying 15 is a rip off compared to behind a hedge for free. Well actualy you do get facilities for that price. Last night stayed on a site for 10 and felt well p*ssed off, decided if the next xite along looked the same would wild camp, saw several spots to park up none where pzrticulery good came to campsite and it's very nice cost 15 and suits us well. Will we wildcamp tommorow? Don't know yet, if we like look of site no, if we don't then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 plinkplonk321 - 2012-07-08 2:39 PM comparing the costs - its simple budgeting surely? I know what money I have coming in now per month and what it will be when i go travelling. I know what rent I pay now and what my bills, food and drink needs cost. I need to know worst case senario what site costs will be to allow a further calculation for diesel, food, alcohol, motor insurance, potential breakdown costs etc etc. I am not comparing the two lifestyles, just what pound for pound / euro for euro my moeny will be spent on. There is a big difference beween paying £0.00 per night or £20 per night accomodation costs over a 6 month period - or am I missing something? I suggest you budget for 'camping accommodation' costs of £50 per week for the UK and £25 per week outside the UK. Some of the costs of your plan can be accurately established before your trip commences (eg. the cost of the motorhome's Road Tax and insurance, personal travel insurance, ferry/tunnel charges); others will depend on choice. The amount of fuel you use will depend on how far you travel; the amount you spend on food and drink will depend on your lifestyle. Such things should be self-evident. I could tour for 6 months in France and spend nothing on 'campsite accommodation', but I usually use a mixture of cheap campsites (say 12€ absolute maximum per night), cheap or free 'aires' and France Passion sites. Plainly, if I chose to restrict myself to posh campsites at sea-coast tourist hot-spots (Heaven forbid!) I'd expect to pay big bucks. The overall cost of 'camping accommodation' will, to a significant degree, be under your own control, but £50/week(UK) and £25/week(Abroad) seem reasonable figures to use in your budgeting calculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Just returned from 50 nights touring around France using ACSI sites and aires about 50/50. Average cost per night £8.37. Total cost driving 2,382 miles with deisel, ferry and camp sites averaged £22 per night. I don't use peages and I reckon food to be about the same as at I would have spent staying at home. Not sure you would pay the same for a package holiday ! Do not use the van in UK till the low season prices apply, as sites and roads are too busy and expensive !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 'Free' overnight stops at Pubs is in reality one of the most expensive ways of camping. That is if you are eating and drinking in the Pub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryboy33 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 We have been motorhoming for over 30 years worldwide. The smaller the van the easier you will find it to wildcamp. Often what appears like the ideal place to wildcamp turns out to be not so good ! You will be suprised at the activities that take place ! Sometimes fishermen or drug users turn up in the dead of night. You just have to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth and think about your safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel wood Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-07-09 9:13 I suggest you budget for 'camping accommodation' costs of £50 per week for the UK and £25 per week outside the UK. With 10 years of motorhoming I consider these costs to be much too low and totally unrealistic, even in low season. Of course, people use their motorhomes in different ways. I am sure that many of us would be very interested to learn of your recent trips and how, based on your experience, you came up with these figures. Many of us are willing to learn from other people. It's good to share! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 747 - 2012-07-09 12:40 PM 'Free' overnight stops at Pubs is in reality one of the most expensive ways of camping. That is if you are eating and drinking in the Pub. Surely it's the cheapest form of camping if you're planning to eat & drink in a pub anyway. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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