REACHING 70 AND WEIGHTS

[Guest VI]

HELP!!!! We have had a body blow this week.we have an Auto trail scout Merc 3850kg.My Husband as had is license restricted so he can only drive 3500kg.This makes it worse because we have a haulage buisness and he's had a class one all his working live.Our Auto trail is our pride and joy. I can drive it and pull a car behind becaus I am Younger,But I don't want to do that all the time. The Qustion is has any body out there down plated a motorhome for this very reason?.And how did you get rid of the weight.because every thing in it I feel we use.Another thing on our insurance documents we have no mention of weights and what you can or can't drive.This is causing a lot of sleepless nights.Perhaps I have answered my own question, exchange it but we love it.Please help!!!! One dealer said down plate it.then put things back in.Because the CHANCES of you getting stopped are minimal.that's a dealer.I am not prepared to take the risk. Happy new year to you all. Vi.

[Guest phil]

we have the same problem with restricted license,can only drive 3500kg. we bought an auto-sleeper executive and travel light.we wouldn,t risk down plating. happy new year phil + hilary

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Down-plating of motorhomes because there is a need to meet driving-licence restrictions is a relatively common practice. The simplest thing is for me to refer you to Mel Eastburn's excellent article "It ain't heavy - it's my motorhome!" beginning on page 171 of MMM, December 2004 (earlier related articles in August and September issues) - in particular the relevant paragraphs on page 173. Unless you already know that your Scout, in 'touring' state, is well over the 3500kg limit, you may well be worrying unduly over reducing what you carry with you. As you have a haulage business I'm sure you will have access to a weighbridge and, if you aren't sure of your 'van's loaded weight, you should visit this to check. A simple way to keep on-the-road weight down is to travel with empty water tanks. (Inconvenient but effective.) However, if your motorhome still exceeds 3.5t with tanks empty, I'm afraid you will need to bite the bullet and prune your on-board possessions to remain legal. (I've some sympathy with your dealer's advice. A 3850kg motorhome down-plated to 3500kg and overloaded somewhat beyond the latter limit will be safe (though illegal of course), as compared with an overloaded 3500kg-to-start-with chassis which will be both unsafe and illegal!)

[Guest Clive]

A back to front question from me. What was done to plate your Autotrail Scout Merc from its original 3500 to 3850 KG. What was physically changed? I might be tempted to do the same. Similarly I have a HGV class 1 as does the Mrs. Good luck

[Guest William R Dunstone]

Can I ask, why did you let your licence get downrated? When I reached 70 and had to renew my licence, as everyone does, I applied for and got the C and D groups continued. It is a fag and costs a private medical (about £65) and lots of forms but a lot cheaper than changing or downgrading 'vans. BillD

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Vi - a postscript. You might be able to make some worthwhile weight savings on your Scout by rethinking your gas-storage arrangements. If you currently carry 2 x 13kg Calor propane cylinders, that's more that 57kg of weight when both are full. Switching to a 10kg lightweight MTH Autogas user-refillable container, with a 6kg Calor propane bottle as reserve, would save about 27kg. You could also consider moving some weightier items (eg. barbecues, cases of drinks) into the car when you are towing it. (Not a wonderful idea I admit, but it could make the difference between being legal or not.) I note Clive's and BillD's comments. As you mentioned a maximum weight of 3850kg (with your 'van being Mercedes-based, I think it's more probably 3800kg) I presumed your Scout was relatively recent. Certainly, in the last few years, Auto-Trail has not built Scout with a 3.5t overall weight as an option. I checked a 2004 Auto-Trail brochure and noted 'estimated' unladen weights of 3247kg for a Mercedes Scout with 2.2 litre motor or 3287kg for one with the 2.7 litre engine. I'm 99% sure these figures do NOT include any allowance for fresh-water or passengers (though I expect a 75kg driver will have been chucked in) and the weight of gas-bottles may not be included either. Extras (awning, tow-bar, etc.) definitely won't be included, nor will any luggage allowance. It seems from this that plating-down a recent Scout may leave you with very little useful payload, but, as motorhome ex-factory weights can vary significantly, the only sure way of finding out is to weigh the vehicle. I omitted suggesting that, at age 70, your husband could opt to take a medical to allow him to continue to drive vehicles heavier than 3500kg, a) because the DVLA will already have advised him of that option and b) because it's fully covered in the Dec 2004 MMM article I referred to. However, as BillD says, provided that your husband can meet the medical requirements, this would be the simplest, cheapest and most satisfactory solution.

[Guest Mel E]

I prepared a paper on 'DownPlating' which was available by email to reader's of my MMM article that Derek so kindly mentions. If you want a copy, please post your email address in reply to this posting and I'll happily send a copy. If you need to down plate, the most obvious first step is to take the vehicle to a weighbridge and weigh it empty of water, gas bottles and people. Then you can easily work out wether a down-plating exercise has any chance of leaving you with carrying capacity. Do NOT downplate and then overload. Motorhomes are being stopped in the UK (as the follow-up to my weight articles showed), and, if stopped abroad, they'll throw the proverbial at you.

[Guest Mike Smith]

hey wee willie where can you get the medical for £65. My quack charges me £100 for my HGV 1 (can't get my head round these new classes ). Bet your north of the border. We English get suckered every time. Mike

[Guest PeteC]

Warning If you downplate & replace so that you are over the new weight & get stopped here in Cumbria (They now regularly stop MH Vans & Trailers) to check in Laybys ANd on the A74 as you leave the M6 northbpund at a permenant weighbridge (just before Gretna) You can pay for the medical & keep a limit up to 7500 kg instead of the HGV 1

[Guest VI]

HI!! and thankyou for yours replies and support.First I want to answer a few of your Question'My husband had a stroke(Christmas day tenerife 02) not a good day,it took all is right side.But he's fully recovered.thank goodness.Our motorhome Autotrail Scout Mercedes 02 weighes 3850kg MAM we do keep it under that.We thought we'd like to tow a car,so towbar on,car ordered.(WAGON R).I startd to read August's MMM.It ain't heavy.canceled car.Off to the Doctors to get the Medical.For a class 2 license(he had is Licence taken of him Class 1 when he had the stroke).Passed the medical £80 sent it off to Swansea,back came a letter to go on the tread mill.Tread mill at the hospital,9 mins non stop on a one in six graidient. 3 mile per hour.(how many can do that at 30 never mind 70)but he did it.They found a blip.It's going to take 9 months to find out what the blip is that's the National health service.so it can't be so urgent.The medical Doctor at Swansea Requested the Trace from the Tread mill.This as caused a lot of sleepless nights. The latest is we received a letter to say "our medical adviser has recommended that you should not drive lgv's.This means your application as been refused". We then went into a panic as you do. Hence my first e-mail on the board.Then to day he's recieved is licence back To say he can drive up to 7,500 kg.I have spoken to Swansea and the ministry of Transport.Who just can't understand why I should be worried in the first place.And could not understand what, and why I should want to down plate it.when a car licence allows you to drive up to 7500 kg.car and trailer or just a motorhome.well any thing up to 7500 kg.so all is well and we are happy motorhomers to night. with No worries as Swansea say. So why are people down plateing Motorhomes. I JUST CAN'T GET MY HEAD ROUND IT AT ALL.AND IT'S DRIVING ME MAD I AM STILL THINKING SWANSEA ARE WRONG FOR GIVING HIM THE LICENCE,AM I READING THE MMM WRONG.IT'S DOING MY HEAD IN.mY HUSBAND SAY'S "HE'S GOT IT IN BLACK AND WHITE AND HE'S LEGAL." I hope he's right.I love my Scout SORRY FOR WRITING A BOOK look forward to your replies.

[Guest Mel E]

YOU HAVE BEEN WRONGLY ADVISED. An ordinary car licence (category B) allows you to drive only up to 3500Kgs MAM. To raise that to 7500 Kgs, you need categories C1 and C1+E (for towing). If you are over 70 you have to pass a medical test (the same as for HGV/LGV drivers) every 3 years. If you do not pass, no C1 or C1+E. Incidentally, I also need a DVLA LGV medical, even tho' I'm well under 70, for my UK pilot's licence. My last certificate cost me just £15! And that's in England.

[Guest vi]

Hi! again. Well today,I have again rung Swansea,and spoke to four different people.THE FIRS THREE SAID MY HUSBANDS LISCENCE WAS CORRECT.I THEN ASKED THE QUESTION "WEL WHO WOULD HAVE A LICENCE AT 70 TO DRIVE CLASS B ONLY" EVERY THING WENT QUIET. TO BE TOLD I WOULD BE HAVEING A CALL FROM A MANAGER. GUESS WHAT' SIX PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN ME WRONG INFORMATION.AND THEY HAVE ALSO MADE A COMPUTER ERROR ON THE LICENCE.IT SHOULD ONLY BE A B. only with me nagging and nagging at them have i got to the bottom of it.I am disgusted with Swansea.and I have made my feelings Known.Do'es anbody want to buy a Scout in showroom condition.

[Guest Mel E]

Vi, what a SHAMBLES!!! But this reflects my own experience with Swansea: the people on the Help line are only trained to answer the most basic of questions. What is worse is that they also seem to be trained to guess if they don't know . . . I have already sold my 4200 Kg motorhome and am in process of down-sizing to 3500Kg. Being over that limit is getting increasingly difficult - GO Boxes in Austria, extra vignette rates in Switzerland, soon extra charges in Germany, lower speed limits, difficulty finding places to do the MoT, and so on and so on.

[Guest Vi]

Hi Mel., Things like this want printing in the MMM.and making people aware of how mistaAKES AND FALSE INFORMATION AND BE GIVEN OUT AT A COST.WE HAVE PAID FOR THE MEDICAL (IT APPEARS DIFFERENT COSTS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY)tHEN IT'S APPEARS UP TO THE INDIVIUAL TO SORT THINGS OUT.fANCY SENDING A LCENCE WITH ALL THE CATERGOIRES ON AND NOT LEGAL. iF HE'D KILL SOMEONE HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN INSURED.PEOPLE NEED TO BE WARNED TO CHECK THER LICENCE,TO SEE IF THEY HAVE THE RIGHT ONE. tHIS IS THE SECOND RUN IN I HAVE HAD WITH Swansea 10 years ago I got stopped on the M1 and asked to produce my licence.my licence had not been ret urned from swansea after change of address,and the change over from the regional offices in our case wakefield.swansea had no record of me>I had been driving 30 years.I had to take my test again and passed first time again.Once again this was not funny.But do they Care. No.This as been a horrible day.and we are very upset.Please make people aware of checking licences.

[Guest Alf W]

Sorry to come in late on this one. I've been following it because I fall into the 70+ category. Given what's gone on I suggest that you present the story to your local MP. I know that cynics will say "What's the use of that ?", but I do know that if an MP takes up an issue with an organisation such as Swansea they do have to sit up and take notice. They may not immediately start to get it right, but top management do become aware of the issue rather than some underling.

[Guest Mel E]

Vi, I'm really sorry you've had such a torrid time and I totally agree with Alf: do take this up with your local MP. And let us know what happens. As to warning others, The two articles entitled "It Ain't Heavy . . ." together with the follow-up about over-70s in the letters comumn and the follow-up article in December's MMM did give such warnings. So MMM at least is trying, as usual, to keep its readers informed. Two national broadsheet (so-called quality) newspapers managed to get it totally wrong on items I covered in these articles, but still refused to print a correction, when I approached them!

[Guest vi]

yet again,you will not belive what came in the post from Swansea to day.A LETTER TO SAY HE CAN HAVE THE LICENCE.CAN YOU ALL BELIVE IT.IT IS MAKING ME ILL.WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO TELL THEM THEY ARE WRONG AND KEEP RINGING THEM COSTING ME MONEY. Yes I am going to take it up with my M.P.I am already in correspondence with him regarding the waiting list at the Hospital.Imagine in 9 months when he finally gets is appointment,and we have sold the Motorhome to downsize,He hadn't lost his entilement at all.This is a total nightmare. I think the whole thing is stupid.We can go out and buy the biggest car and caravan,he can pull that.how many car's and caravans have you seen turned over,Lots.Motorhomes none. we are only talking about three bags of coal.I can't see what the difference is at the stroke of midnight he can drive it and after that he can't.I am the inexperienced drive and I can drive even with a car on the back.STUPID !!!!.I wonder how many people are driving with a condition who don't know.We have spoke to dealers and other drivers who do not know about this rule.I feel like standing on a soap box on speakers corner,HYDE PARK.WE KNOW HAVE TWO LETTERS AND A LICENCE TOSAY HE CAN DRIVE UP TO 7.500kgs.AND ONE TO SAY HE CAN'T. PLUS A LETTER OF APPOLIGE.AND ANOTHER TWO LICENCES IN THE POST. SORT THAT OUT. DISGUSTING.

[Guest Mike Chapman]

Hello Vi, I have been following the thread "reaching 70 and weights" and am disgusted at the way you are being treated by the DVLA. Their inefficiency does not surprise me in the least, just trying to get basic information from them is fraught with errors and mis-information. Today I was told by one of their customer staff that if you are over 70 you cannot drive a vehicle over 3500 kgs. Nonsense! and when questioned she asked someone else and they said that if you are over 65 you can drive a vehicle up to 7.5 tons but need to have a medical!!! May I suggest for your own peace of mind you do the following. Speak to your doctor and ask him if the 9 month wait can be bought forward on the basis that you want to get your Motor Caravanning Life back or at least know where you stand medically. Contact your Insurance company and ask for legal advice using the Legal Expenses section of your policy. This will be free except for the cost of your phone calls Get all the paperwork, sent by the DVLA together, and send photo copies to the Medical Advisor at DVLA with a covering letter. Send a copy to your MP and Rt Hon Alistair Darling at Department for Transport (DfT). Ask him for his assistance with getting DVLA to sort out the mess. The terminology "A waste of public money" somewhere in the letter usually gets action. If you really want to rock the boat, send an E-mail to Tony Blair at No. 10 as well. Keep a sense of humour, don't let them wear you down. Good luck Vi and if there is anything I can do to help e-mail me at lawers@supanet.com or via the forum. Mike Chapman

[Guest Violet watkinson]

Thankyou for your interest Mike, I have now been in touch with our M.P.who is taking the matter up with the Swansea, and he say's the TRANSPORT MINISTER.As yet I have not had a reply.To think that a person can drve a Motorhome up to 7.5.and tow a car on the back with out experience,and possible have four passengers in all talking at once.Is Unthinkable,and to me a accident waitng to happen.My husband is no different on the 4/2/ as he is on the 3.2. and we still have not had anything confirmed at the hospital.Imagine if we sold the Autotrail Scout and bought a smaller Autotrail.We would lose money.Then in Nine months nothings wrong,who will give Us back the money we have lost.We can't belive your story.It just goes to show how public money is wasted.We will carry on I will drive,But my husband as got a license untll 2008 so if he was stopped they would not know any different.But we are people who like to do no wrong.Remember we have a haulage buisness. What a crazy situation to be in. Thankyou for your advise. Regards Vi.

[Guest Mike Chapman]

Hello Vi, Will be interested in the outcome of your letters etc. Good Luck. Mike.

[Guest CHRIS EVANS]

Mel E .............. Please can you email me your article on downplating. We can buy a Chausson allegro 83 at 3.8 or 3.5 ton plated but in 4 years hubby will be 70. Would you recommend leaving it at 3.8 until he is 70 then downgrading IF he has problems OR plating it at 3.5 from new? Also we need to consider the cost of doing such a change. My email address is chris.gog@virgin.net Thanks in advance. Hope you can help

[Guest Vi Watkinson]

Sorry but I'm not Mel E.I am the person who posted the question.We have had a lot of problems.But down plating was our answer.But I drive the Motorhome.an Auto trail Scout.I am just sorting out a car to tow because we are about to start dialysis,we need to be able to get to hospital's three times a week 4 hours a day.We can'nt let this spoil our enjoyment.We are at the Moment inThe Lake district in Keswick.The Sites have all been full this weekend.Fantastic weather but cold.Enjoy your motorhome and I hope you sort your problem. regards Vi

[Guest CHRIS EVANS]

Vi, Thanks for your prompt reply. I thought by repling to the post that Mel E would automatically get the message. It doesn't matter as you have answered my questions. With further research I have found out that the cost is £65 +vat. We will probably go ahead with the 3.8 plate now and at least we are prepared with the knowledge of what to do when hubby gets to 70. If he thinks he will fail medical then we will downplate the van to 3.5ton or part ex it rather than have the possibility of losing his licence. I can still drive for at least 20 years yet so if we kept the van he would have to navigate then instead of me? Sorry to hear that you have medical problems but good on you for getting out and enjoying yourself. That is the good thing about this hobby. YOU CAN TAKE YOUR HOME WITH YOU (even to the hospital in some cases) I hope you find a nice car to tow and carry on enjoying motorhoming. Enjoy the lake district. Thanks again Chris

[Guest CHRIS EVANS]

Thanks Vi, Had a test drive and then ordered our new van as a 3.8ton today. Will now wait till 70 to decide what to do then . I take it your licence problems have now all been finally all sorted. All the best Chris

[Guest violet.watkinson]

What sort of Van have you ordered?.We are now near Bolton Abbey.We have sold our House and we are moving into a Parkhome.Due to health problems.Major heart and Kidney problems.The Park home is not ready,so we are having to live in the Motorhome for a time.Our Home will be near Bolton Abbey in the yorkshire Dales.We have come back to day due to my husband going into hospital tomorrow.We have been very lucky with the weather cold but sunny.But our Motorhome central heating is fantastic.Enjoy your new van.Did you not think of ordering at a Show Where you get fantastic Discounts.I am not for buying new I would rather buy a Used Van with next to no Mileage on Ours had done 1,500miles and lot's and lot's of goodies,and no Vat.I will have to drive the motorhome with the car on We think a toyota Yaris(second hand low mileage no Vat).But that does no trouble me.I am 60 this year.This is another fantastic thing Internet broadband.Which I can use in where in the world.No telephone connection.Brilliant.Enyoy.Vi.