Bike Styles?

[Guest Tracker]

Not since a teenager, many years ago, have we ridden bikes but now we are considering it as a means of seeing more without the van and we wonder what the experiences of various people with various styles of bike are?

 

Whilst in Holland we watched many bikers on the typical 'sit up and beg' style Dutch bikes with their upright stance and handlebars much higher than the saddle. These looked very effective and very comfortable to us as onlookers but we did not get a chance to try them.

 

In contrast the UK style of bike with saddle and handlebars at a similar height to each other and a much more bent over style of riding does not look anything like as comfortable to an onlooker.

 

What does the team think please?

[malc d]

Tracker - 2012-07-10 8:42 PM

 

Not since a teenager, many years ago, have we ridden bikes but now we are considering it as a means of seeing more without the van and we wonder what the experiences of various people with various styles of bike are?

 

Whilst in Holland we watched many bikers on the typical 'sit up and beg' style Dutch bikes with their upright stance and handlebars much higher than the saddle. These looked very effective and very comfortable to us as onlookers but we did not get a chance to try them.

 

In contrast the UK style of bike with saddle and handlebars at a similar height to each other and a much more bent over style of riding does not look anything like as comfortable to an onlooker.

 

What does the team think please?

 

 

 

The Dutch type of bikes are o.k. where it's flat, but could be a bit heavy anywhwere else.

 

Does depend a bit where you intend to ride 'em.

 

For a ' go - anywhere ' off road / on road a mountain bike type is useful.

 

On road only - a road bike would be best. I prefer straight handlebars myself as I'm no longer flexible enough to use drop bars.

 

There is a compromise between the two, and that is a hybrid, with plenty of gears and tyres suitable for some off-roading ( such as canal paths ).

 

Preferably not too heavy - bearing in mind your vans payload.

 

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

As Malc says Dutch bikes are heavy with not many gears and designed for the flatlands

 

Better of with Hybrid style as great on road, bridle ways, or off road. Go hire some and see how it feels especially on hills! then come back if you need electric. They bring all the pleasure back into cycling...

 

 

[twooks]

Hey Rich, good to see you’re planning on some exercise (lol)

The Dutch riding style is safer and you get to see more – both in terms of scenery and other traffic. So it’s a no brainer imo. At the very least we go for a touring bike with straight handlebars and good selection of easy to change gears - and - old fashioned as I am - or just old - lights on the bike with super dooper expensive reflective gear [only works when they're actually IN your headlights]

Can’t understand the lunatics who think they’re better than Brad Wiggins ie – shooting down busy roads and twisty country lanes with their heads down [can’t see a thing] using time trial bars [ greatly reduced control] and frequently plugged into an iPod [can’t hear anything]. There used to be something about accepting responsibility for your actions – so if one of these clowns comes off under my front wheels it’s not my fault especially since I’m at least 1 metre preferably 2 metres away.

Aye – right

*-) >:-(

[Dr Dave]

We have used Mountain style bikes for a long while, however to better store our bikes in the garage we purchased a couple of folding bikes however these take a while to get accustomed to and if i am being honest i hate them they are not a patch on a full size bike i feel on edge all the time i am riding it. If you decide to go down the folding route try someone else's first if possible and go for a good long ride to see if they suit you or you may be disappointed.

Dave

[WildBill]

The wife has a hybrid Giant bike which she loves. Big wheels and a large aluminium frame. The tyres are a lot easier on the road but still ok on a bit of rough terrain. I have a mountain bike. Its ok but steel framed and a bit heavy for the van. I shall change mine for an aluminium framed hybrid later this year.

[bob b]

I've got to agree with Eddie. I bought an electric bike which had only been used three times since new. It was half the price of a brand spanker. I'm now a convert as I get the exercise and fun, without the punishment of hill climbing. I took the panniers off my old mountain bike and fitted them to the electric job, so shopping, trips to the beach, etc are simple. I've ridden it with the battery taken out of its housing and it handles just like a 'normal' bike.

If you're really set on a dutch bike, there's a great shop in Littlehampton, West Sussex which specialises in these and you can hire one for £6.00 for the hour. So if you're planning a trip this way you should call in and look around. Its an interesting shop with lots of different styles.

  

[Mel B]

We've had all sorts of types of bikes. By far the best ones for riding are some we got in France from a supermarket ... they were around £135 each - we got them from Champion at the time (2008) and they are very nice to ride and not overly heavy even though they are steel frames. We do find that having a bit heavier type of bike can make it more stable and controllable.

 

I'd suggest going for ones with only front suspension and then add seat-post suspension (if they haven't got them) but avoid bikes with built in rear suspension - our experience of the rear-suspension ones was that they tend to bounce around more and make it harder work to pedal etc. Also, if they don't come with road tyres/semi-road tyres change them - mountain bike tyres are awful to ride on normal roads as they take a lot more effort.

 

As for gears, you don't need loads, 18-21 max, you won't use them all normally but there ren't that many full sized bikes with less nowadays! The easiest type to use are those with the 'click' lever to go up and a 'button press' to go down, although there are also the twist grip ones too which are fairly easy.

 

As for folders - if you do go down this route go for 20" wheels, as 16" wheels mean you are peddling and just about going no-where! Even the 20" are not the easiest to get around on but you soon get used to it, but it's a matter of weighing up the ease of storing them against full sized ones and also how much you are likely to use them/the distances involved and type of terrain.

 

We have the same van as Dave and have gone back to our folders for the same reason as him, but if we were putting them on the back of our van all the time (as I assume you will do) we'd go back to the standard sized ones without question, just make sure you can lift them up onto a rack (seeing as you're an old fart! :D ).

 

As for Dutch bikes - they look great but are VERY expensive (we looked at them in Holland before we got the ones from Champion), heavy, low-geared and okay on the flat, but put them on a hill and you'd struggle as they are just not set-up for that.

 

Whilst you can get away with having a good sit on a standard bike and working out if it is going to be okay, you simply can't do that with folders so you really do need to be able to take them for a good ride around as they all differ in their mannerisms and comfort.

[flicka]

Rich

 

Having been out of touch with the market for so long, have a look at the specialist bike dealers websites to get background info.

i.e. Hybrid Bike, is a Mountain Bike style but designed for mainly Urban use. It will be lighter than an "out & out" Mountain Bike (except those designed & built for competition) , but not as light as a Racing Bike.

It will also have Road tyres versus knobbly All Terrain tyres on a Mountain Bike, but not as narrow as those on a Racing Bike.

 

If you want a "more upright" riding position than the standard offered, ask if they can fit a longer headset stem (this allows the handlebars to be raised)

 

 

 

Submitted as an example, others available.

http://www.evanscycles.com/categories/bikes/hybrid-bikes

 

Regarding "Suspension" models, try out by all means, but IMO whilst front suspension can be a big help, rear suspension takes a lot of getting use to & for me I would not even consider,

 

 

 

 

[lennyhb]

As Malc say's Dutch are OK on the flat try going uphill on anything other than the smoothest surface and you will find the front wheel lifting off making them very unstable, as said very heavy I have seen aluminum ones for sale in Holland 1000€ & upwards.

 

Our personal preference is for hardtail XC's, hardtail is front suspension only XC is cross country often referred to as mountain bike. On my one I changed the front stem for a slightly longer one to bring the bars up a bit, on modern bikes you can only adjust the height of the front stem by about 30mm using different spacer collars.

 

Hard tails are lighter than full suspension models if you are only going to do road riding you might be better off with a hybred sometimes referred to as a city bike basically a road bike with straight bars (no suspension) more upright riding position & the bottom bracket is lower compared to an XC where it is higher & slightly further forward to give better ground clearance.

 

For general riding I use open toe clips on the peddles, for longish road rides I change the peddles for clip-less ones & use shoes with cleats. When we did the London to Brighton I changed the tyres for road ones with a light off road capability slick centers with one row off knobbles on each side, never bothered putting the off road ones back on as we very seldom do any mud plugging.

 

With bikes you get what you pay for you won't go far wrong with mid range ones say £500 - £700, under £400 you will get a heavy frame & poor quality fittings. Any good dealer will let you take bikes out on the road to try. Different manufacturers size bikes differently you need to go around several dealers and try a range to find what suits you, normally the dealer will make changes without charge, front stem, bar gripes etc. Don't expect to get much more than 10% of any well known brand.

 

Don't be tempted with cheap bikes they won't be enjoyable to ride and you will never take them of the bike rack, we both have Specialized Rockhopper's. The more you spend the quality gets better but above £1000 it's a diminishing return having said that I do like my mates one that cost him the wrong side of two grand.

 

Edit:

While busy trying to get me spelling & grammar right Mel's post came up.

 

I totally disagree with her about supermarket bikes they are cheap and awful to ride, I thought it was great at the time an alloy frame bike for just over a hundred quid, the don't seam too bad until you ride a decent bike then you will never want to get on one again.

 

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Spot on Lenny. here is a video of my bike. it is a cross trail, best of both worlds.

 

 

mine has an electric kit fitted to it. bike cost £1100 last year, have seen it for £700 this year. bikes are like that, out of fashion within a year or two when new model comes out so great bargains to be had from nearly nearly new bikes.

 

A hybrid bike IS a sit up style of riding, in fact just bought handlebar riser and fitted to mine today to make it more comfortable.....

 

my wifes new bike coming at the weekend: AVE MH7

 

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

Thanks everyone for your valued inputs.

 

I had not realised that the Dutch style bikes were heavy and expensive by comparison and difficult uphill so I guess that pretty well rules them out then!

 

A hybrid type with front suspension and road tyres - and maybe handlebar risers? - seems the best compromise at the moment as I don't expect to be hurtling down mountainsides anymore and neither do I anticipate hauling ourselves up steep hills.

 

There is no room inside the van so they will have to be on an external rack and as I don't much fancy folding bikes - but I understand that for those who do they are perfect - or any bikes with small wheels - there seems little point in going down that route?

 

Electric sound very very tempting but the weight might be an issue and I guess I can recharge via the inverter as we never use ehu.

 

The cost conundrum?

I don't mind buying quality bikes if we use them enough to justify but if we don't use them much, then el cheapos will probably be good enough?

On the other hand would we be more inclined to use a better quality product if it really did turn out to be easier to use?

Then again without buying one cheapy and one pricey we would never know the difference!

 

Lots to mull over - thanks one and all.

 

[gwyn]

Depends what sort of cycling you are intending. We bought a couple of mid range folding bikes this year which for our usage have been great. Carry in the van which means we don't worry about extra bits on the back or theft, light enough not to affect our payload and give us enough exercise just cycling from campsite to villages and resorts or parking on the edge of towns then cycle in. Coulld not justify electric bikes given the usage and exra weight.

[Guest JudgeMental]

let me assure you you will notice the difference....Garages full of cheap bikes, bough on a whim and never used because they are so awful to ride...

[malc d]

gwyn - 2012-07-10 10:41 PM

 

Depends what sort of cycling you are intending. We bought a couple of mid range folding bikes this year which for our usage have been great. Carry in the van which means we don't worry about extra bits on the back or theft, light enough not to affect our payload and give us enough exercise just cycling from campsite to villages and resorts or parking on the edge of towns then cycle in. Coulld not justify electric bikes given the usage and exra weight.

 

 

I'd agree with Gwyn.

 

It's all about what kind of cycling you expect to be doing.

 

If it's just down to the shops and back, or short local excursions, then almost anything will do - but, if you are likely to go a bit further, say 10 to 15 miles or more, then you will need something more comfortable.

 

 

 

[machinehead]

JudgeMental - 2012-07-10 10:45 PM

 

let me assure you you will notice the difference....Garages full of cheap bikes, bough on a whim and never used because they are so awful to ride...

 

Totally agree. Spend once and enjoy your bike for many years.

 

I bought a good quality bike in about 1987. It cost maybe 3 weeks wages back then. I still have it, still enjoy it and could still sell it for probably £300. A very worthwhile investment.

 

Definately don't buy cheap supermarket mountain bikes. Horrible to ride and a total waste of money.

 

My next bike will be a recumbent..... :-D

[Brian Kirby]

My two penn'oth is that if you are going to carry them on a rear rack, best to get aly frames and be prepared for them to get plastered even under a cover.

 

It may have been the cover, though we modified it to try to close all the gaps, or simply the aerodynamics of the rear of the van, but if it rained, road spray somehow got sucked up the rear of the van and up inside the cover. Net result was, whenever the bikes came off, they had to be cleaned (or at least the bits one would contact had to be), because they were filthy.

 

Also, due to this wet dirt coating the bikes, they began to deteriorate. Quite a lot of "dry" type grease had to be used to keep chain and gears free running, which of course then picked up dry dirt. There were bits you would not want to touch, or catch your clothes on!

 

A good steel frame need be no heavier than aluminium, but aly does not rust, so that, rather than weight, would be my reason for choosing.

 

Pointless spending top dollar on a bike to be carried on a rear rack, IMO, they are far too easy to nick and, if really appealing, it is generally easier to take the rack complete with bikes than to try to untangle the usual assembly of padlocked cables. It obviously depends where you are, but my daughter recently had a bike stolen in London (where she lives). It was locked to another bike, in turn locked to a solid post. The thief just cut the frame of the other bike to get my daughters £700 bike, in broad daylight, in the space of the one hour it had been left.

 

Everything said about the advantages of full sized road/hybrid bikes is spot on. However, if you can get folders inside the van they do stay clean, dry, and secure. We have a couple of Dahon folders, aly framed, average weight for the type, but they have 7 speed hub gears so no dérailleur gear sets to damage in transit, and no dangling gear cases to snag or contact, meaning the slightly fiddly unfolding/folding action is at least capable of being done while staying clean! Intended mainly for road use, not suitable for off road, but fine along a cinder canal path, for example. The gears are adequate for roughly what the bikes can negotiate, anything really steep exposes my jaded legs, and an interesting tendency for the front wheel to come off the ground if you get over enthusiastic! Not my ideal choice but, like most things motorhome, at least a compromise that works for us. Electric folders also possible, or electrics can be added.

 

Final thought is that bikes are fine for riding around on, but a bit of a bind if you ride them to a destination you want to visit, because you than have to find somewhere to secure them. Not always (I'm tempted to say often!) all that easy.

[Guest pelmetman]

Get Gel seats Rich ;-)

[PCC]

One advantage of the Dutch/German style bike is that they are very easy to get on and off because you can step through the frame - it's the same with the boris bikes. With bikes with a high crossbar it is worth practicing scooting on one pedal then swinging your leg over and vice versa.

 

I would say it is always worth looking for last years models being sold off cheap. Have a look at the websites of places like Chain Reaction and Pauls Cycles.

 

You do get what you pay for. Avoid at all costs the cheap bikes sold by places like Tesco. They tend to have nasty cheap plastic fittings that are not up to the job of serious use. The better the kit, the better the feel of the bike. I recently bought a bike with a Shimano Deore mechanism (reasonably good quality) and the difference in feel compared with my old bike which had Shimano Acera (budget quality but still perfectly servicable) is dramatic. The bike changes gear better and feels much smoother.

 

Also, bikes have different geometry and some makes suit people better than others. I had a GT which seemed to give me problems with my knees and switched to a Kona which is much better, even though both are highly respected makes. If possible you should try them before you buy - I hired a Kona before I bought one mail order.

 

It does of course depend on how much and how you are going to use the bikes.

 

Finally, a word about Halfords. They have some excellent deals and they are very convenient but their prices go up and down like a yoyo. One week a bike will be £500, the next £300, then back to £500, perhaps with a few other prices in between. You need to watch their deals very carefully.

[Guest Tracker]

I also need to consider the weight of two electric bikes hanging on my rear end and whether the van's structure as well as the bike rack is up to it?

 

At the moment cheap bikes have a slight lead in the favouritism stakes over pricey bikes unless we change the van for a garage version - which seems unlikely - not least due to the theft risk and road dirt degradation, although it should not be beyond the wit of man to devise a proper cover - but then again handing a filthy cover has limited appeal too!

[malc d]

Tracker - 2012-07-11 11:29 AM

 

I also need to consider the weight of two electric bikes hanging on my rear end and whether the van's structure as well as the bike rack is up to it?

 

At the moment cheap bikes have a slight lead in the favouritism stakes over pricey bikes unless we change the van for a garage version - which seems unlikely - not least due to the theft risk and road dirt degradation, although it should not be beyond the wit of man to devise a proper cover - but then again handing a filthy cover has limited appeal too!

 

 

I've been carrying bikes on the back for the last ten years. without a cover, and they have not suffered " road dirt degradation"

 

Depends what they are made of I suppose.

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

malc d - 2012-07-11 11:38 AM

 

I've been carrying bikes on the back for the last ten years. without a cover, and they have not suffered " road dirt degradation"

 

 

I was surprised to read what Brian had to say about road dirt but to be fair, on reflection, and knowing how dirty the back of the van gets I am not surprised after all!!

 

Perhaps the bikes need to be covered from below as well as from above?

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

How about a pair of these electric folders, one on the rack and one in camper?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320734311297?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_2052wt_1144

 

Their e bike kits reasonably popular for a budget job,,,here you get a complete bike for not much more.

fit some swarbe big apple tyres and should be comfortable....you may need to get bigger front chain wheel as gearing on folders can be to low

[euroserv]

Hello Rich,

 

I thought I would toss my experience into the hat; as cycling is my greatest passion (after fixing vans!).

 

Now this may sound somewhat irrelevant, but bear with me and you will see why.....

 

I decided to enter an event with some mates in about 2008 which would involve a long and very muddy route over about 30 miles. I had an old hardtail MTB but had been road cyling more in recent years, so decided to buy a Specialized full suspension bike. It was very expensive. I did the event and hated the bike. The rear suspension could be switched off, and did not 'bob' about too much anyway but it was just too much like riding a gate! So big and no fun whatsoever. This led me to buy a new Specialized hardtail in carbon at the end of that year. This bike was fantastic but the ride could be a bit hard sometimes. I was happy enough riding this in most situations but some of my trips last year were on very rough trails ( i even ended up going for a swim in a canal) and i started to feel my age so I looked again at the full suspension bikes and fell in love with a Specialized Epic s-works (again carbon framed) and parted with an insane amount of money and it is wonderful. When you spend this much money you get a full suspension bike that weighs about the same as a road bike and is quick and comfortable.

Why is all that relevant?

 

Every time that one of my bikes needs repairing and I can't use the one that I would like to use most, I get out my original MTB. It is a Ridgeback from 1992. It is steel framed (and surprisingly light), has 21 gears and only front suspension. For some reason whenever I ride it it seems fast, fun and comfortable. A similar bike can be brought off ebay for about £100 and all of the parts are still available, in fact I recently bought a Marin bike off ebay for my girlfriend's son and after a little tarting up it is amazing. Total price including some cool tyres and a new back wheel was only £180.00

 

The moral of this story is that no matter what you think you need, a cheap old steel framed bike will do the job very well indeed and will make you smile whenever you ride it. The really cheap new bikes (under £300) are built using poor quality, heavy parts and will surely disappoint. A used bike at around £100 to 200 will have cost £700 plus new and will be well made and lighter. Steel frames are inherently more comfortable than 'zingy' aluminium ones.

 

Finally, I bought a brand new full carbon, full suspension bike for the other half last year. It was a Scott, was originally £2500 and I got it for £1100 from a shop/warehouse that sells last season's bikes near Norwich. They are Paul's Cycles at Dereham and they are not far from you.

 

September is the big month in cycling bargains. The next season bike are all announced if not available, and the still current years stock is reduced at most bike shops. There is normally at least 30% discount to be had on all of the big name like Specialized, Scott, Marin, Kona and Giant.

 

Realistically, if the used bike thing is not for you then you would be best to look at a £500 Specialized Rockhopper or Hardrock and see if you can get it for about £375 in the inevitable sales. Hybrid bikes are good too but not the 'jack of all trades' that an MTB can be.

 

Nick

[malc d]

Tracker - 2012-07-11 11:51 AM

 

malc d - 2012-07-11 11:38 AM

 

I've been carrying bikes on the back for the last ten years. without a cover, and they have not suffered " road dirt degradation"

 

 

I was surprised to read what Brian had to say about road dirt but to be fair, on reflection, and knowing how dirty the back of the van gets I am not surprised after all!!

 

Perhaps the bikes need to be covered from below as well as from above?

 

 

 

As bikes are built for use outdoors we don't worry too much if they get wet or dirty - we just put waterproof covers over the saddles when they are on the rack..

+ We keep the bikes well oiled.

 

( ... and then clean the bikes two or three times a year ! )

 

;-)