Guest Tracker Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Many thanks Nick for that insightful dissertation - so not only a gen van man but a bike guru too - is there no end to this man's talents - and what wonders have we yet to learn, I wonder!! Oh yes - I am a great afficienado of the words secondhand and bargain - they are my third words - after free and discount that is!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 malc d - 2012-07-11 11:38 AM I've been carrying bikes on the back for the last ten years. without a cover, and they have not suffered " road dirt degradation" Depends what they are made of I suppose. Our bikes cost over £4000 the pair and I use a basic fiamma cover, and give bikes a hose down when and if required (not often). security: Insurance: cheaper on household policy 2 locks, one quality D lock and one quality chain/padlock. Buy cheap may as well not bother. a thief needs different tools for different locks so this delays them...Never leave chain trailing on ground DONT D lock two bikes together, they will cut the frame of one to get the other. and insurance will be void as you have not secured bike properly I also use two kryptonite cables which are for securing wheels to D lock, BUT when bikes on rack I loop them around frame and bikes and down under bumper and padlock to towing bracket. I would use chain but to heavy due to length. pain in the ass to get of in a rush but so far so good, fingers crossed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 M'lud, You make an excellent point about security. It is so frustrating having to cart about 10Kg of security equipment that I don't bother! I just don't go anywhere where my bike will be out of my sight; even for a moment! This is the other huge advantage of using old bikes. They are just so much less attractive to thieves. I just checked Paul's cycles and they have a Scott Aspect 45 (2010) with hydraulic disc brakes for £398 instead of £549. Well worth a look and certainly better than anything Halfords have to offer for the money. They also have Ladies versions. Have a look Rich. www.paulscycles.co.uk (obviously I have no affiliation whatsoever; I just like a bargain!) My other intersets are sea fishing and vintage video recorders and cassette decks; since you asked! PS. Kryptonite locks out perform everything else available but they too have cheap and fairly useless cable and U locks in their range. The 'New York Fahgeddaboudit' (seriously) Is a small but incredibly heavy U lock with a very strong covered chain. It is one of very few locks that has passed every test thrown at it but will set you back about £100! Something less bulky (and somewhat less effective) will cost £40 to 50 but is well worth it. Also you should change quick release wheel fixings for good old nuts and bolts if you don't want a wheel or two knicked when your back is turned, the same goes for quick release seat post clamps..... could be a very uncomfortable ride home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Hi Nick, I use my bikes almost daily, they are my main transport. £100 lock......probably trackers budget for both bikes :D we use the kryptonite cables through both wheels and D lock on frame They are pretty substantial? but you have me worried now :-S a "proper" chain long enough to do what I do would weigh well over 10kg I would think *-) I have an alarm also, handy if in restaurant, shop, bar and bike outside...it puts of the inquisitive scrota. No quick release........You can only do so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I've got a good quality Dahon folder simply because it is more convenient to keep in the rear garage and I'm not quite sure how I would fit a rear rack on the AutoTrail given the position of the spare wheel and cover. Qulaity is very good and it is surprisingly good to ride. I use it most days when at home and when required on holiday. Only two problems. One is that if you ride it for any long distance, say more than 15 miles it does tend to make my wrists sore. Mind you I have to admit to being over 70. The second is that the 20" wheels limit the top speed when peddling and to some extent going down hills due to reduced stability. Gets a bit tedious keep being overtaken by Grannies on full size sit up and beg bikes with wicker baskets on the front! Other than that I love it. Any one who pinches it would get a bit of a surprise as the brakes are very sharp and because my wife who has a small disability in her left hand uses it the controls have been switched from left to right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Colin, If you are getting wrist ache could I suggest one or both of the following?; 1. You should be able to get some bar ends fitted that will give you an alternative position for your hands. 2. Try a pair of gloves that have padded areas at the palm and base of the thumb. Specialized do them with and without fingers and there are other cheaper brands too. That is about as much as you can do without front suspension, but it will help. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 My last bike had hydraulic disc brakes, which were very efficient, but did have a drawback. On long steep descents the oil ( or the discs ) used to expand with friction heat and would jam up. I could always get round it by jumping off and adjusting them, but that was a bit of a pain. They then had to be re-adjusted when they had cooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 lennyhb - 2012-07-10 9:44 PM Edit: While busy trying to get me spelling & grammar right Mel's post came up. I totally disagree with her about supermarket bikes they are cheap and awful to ride, I thought it was great at the time an alloy frame bike for just over a hundred quid, the don't seam too bad until you ride a decent bike then you will never want to get on one again. Excuse me Lenny, but I have a 'decent' bike too!!! I had a Vindec Vogue shopper type bike which was great but very heavy, so I PX'd it and got a Raleigh alloy lightweight one which I bought at age 14 - it cost me £96 and it was a heck of a lot of dosh then especially saved up from my pocket and birthday money for about 2 years!!! I used to ride over 5 miles each way to school, including through some horrendous winter weather, and then when I left school I used it to go to work and then college on an evening, hence why I wanted a lightweight one - I basically went everywhere on it and did a lot of mileage each week. However, I don't do the mileage I used to and the French 'supermarket' bikes are actually very good, they aren't the crappy ones that some stores sell, and have some good gear on them (sealed crank etc), they were heavily discounted when we bought them and should have been over double the price we paid as they were in a sale. I wouldn't put any pricey bikes on the back of our motorhome due to the restriction on insurance compensation if they get nicked - if you're happy to put expensive ones on then that's up to you, I'd rather not have the 'worry' especially since the bikes we bought do us nicely. Getting them off the bike rack and using them isn't an issue as they are very nice to ride - especially with the gel seat covers - oh, I also use some gel gloves too which makes it more comfortable for my hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 euroserv - 2012-07-11 3:40 PM I just checked Paul's cycles and they have a Scott Aspect 45 (2010) with hydraulic disc brakes for £398 instead of £549. Well worth a look and certainly better than anything Halfords have to offer for the money. They also have Ladies versions. Have a look Rich. www.paulscycles.co.uk (obviously I have no affiliation whatsoever; I just like a bargain!) My other intersets are sea fishing and vintage video recorders and cassette decks; since you asked! PS. Kryptonite locks out perform everything else available but they too have cheap and fairly useless cable and U locks in their range. The 'New York Fahgeddaboudit' (seriously) Is a small but incredibly heavy U lock with a very strong covered chain. It is one of very few locks that has passed every test thrown at it but will set you back about £100! Something less bulky (and somewhat less effective) will cost £40 to 50 but is well worth it. Also you should change quick release wheel fixings for good old nuts and bolts if you don't want a wheel or two knicked when your back is turned, the same goes for quick release seat post clamps..... could be a very uncomfortable ride home! Thanks Nick - I hear the Sea fishing is very good in Leicester!! I had a look at the Pauls website and as they are quite close to us we will trundle along there and have a look. Interesting point security and it does increase the argument in favour of second hand bikes that don't look that inviting. By the time you add in all the bits and pieces like security, lights, helmets, tools and bits and pieces plus the storage space required and the faffing about aggravation and set it against the envisaged use as well as fitting it all around walking the dog I can quite see now why we have managed very well on foot for the last 40 years of motorhoming! I remain to be convinced that we can be bothered with all that faffing about with racks, locks, chains etc - we are supposed to be on holiday after all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Sounds like you got a bargain then Mel, they do exist but are hard to track down. Most bikes that are under £250 are built using very poor components and are usually extremely heavy. They will not last long, and invariably need a trip to a proper bike shop within no time at all to get wheels trued and brakes set up because 'out of the box' they are terrible. I was told many years ago when I was an engineering apprentice..... "You can have CHEAP; LIGHT; STRONG. Pick 2 You cannot get all 3". Never been proven wrong, and it appiles to everything. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 euroserv - 2012-07-11 5:07 PM Colin, If you are getting wrist ache could I suggest one or both of the following?; 1. You should be able to get some bar ends fitted that will give you an alternative position for your hands. 2. Try a pair of gloves that have padded areas at the palm and base of the thumb. Specialized do them with and without fingers and there are other cheaper brands too. That is about as much as you can do without front suspension, but it will help. Nick Just bought stem raiser for my specalized crosstrail ltd disc and fitted it yesterday, has raised the handle bars a bit and now much more comfortable... Tracker once we get somewhere we just lock to an immovable object as we do when cycling around anyway, only takes a minute or to to secure bikes. The extra precautions are only needed when bikes on camper rack. I new tracker would find an excuse not to spend any real money!lol Dont worry your not a cyclist anyway :D Just find a country park with trails and bike hire and give it a go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Mr Tracker, Don't give up so easily! When I was over at Paul's they had £50 Giant branded helmets for about £20. They will last a long time. Because you are looking at hard tail MTB's they have a very handy open space in the frame that fancy curved frames and full suspension bikes don't have. The sturdy U type locks that you need will come with securing brackets so that they can fit within the frame and not get in the way for transportation. You will need some lightweight waterproofs (that are breathable) and buy some decent rechargeable lights for the front and cheap LED ones for the rear, a pump that can also mount to the frame and a puncture repair kit or have 'slime' tubes fitted that are mostly self -healing. Do all this and get some decent bikes. You will find reasons to use them and you will not regret it. Once you have dragged yourselves around Rutland Water and had a couple of pints on the way you will be hooked! Bicycles are like time machines; watch those years roll back! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Tracker - 2012-07-11 11:51 AM malc d - 2012-07-11 11:38 AM I've been carrying bikes on the back for the last ten years. without a cover, and they have not suffered " road dirt degradation" I was surprised to read what Brian had to say about road dirt but to be fair, on reflection, and knowing how dirty the back of the van gets I am not surprised after all!! Perhaps the bikes need to be covered from below as well as from above? The cover was as total as we could make it, but due to the design of the racks it is very difficult to fully enclose the bottom of the rack. There is also a risk that water may enter and lie on the base of the cover, so some degree of opening seems desirable. The bikes went round Spain, Portugal, France and Italy on the back of that van, and they got very dirty despite the cover. Just telling it like it was, no more, no less! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm not giving up - but I am balancing all the factors involved before jumping in and buying the wrong bikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 We had a cover on our bikes years ago, and frankly it didn't make a lot of difference to how dirty our bikes got :-S I now have a mountain bike as we live in Lincolnshire :D..............and it has disc brakes ;-)........£100 quid 8 years ago from a Ford main dealer garage 8-).............I guess in that time I've traveled almost 10 miles on it :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-07-11 6:42 PM Tracker - 2012-07-11 11:51 AM malc d - 2012-07-11 11:38 AM I've been carrying bikes on the back for the last ten years. without a cover, and they have not suffered " road dirt degradation" I was surprised to read what Brian had to say about road dirt but to be fair, on reflection, and knowing how dirty the back of the van gets I am not surprised after all!! Perhaps the bikes need to be covered from below as well as from above? The cover was as total as we could make it, but due to the design of the racks it is very difficult to fully enclose the bottom of the rack. There is also a risk that water may enter and lie on the base of the cover, so some degree of opening seems desirable. The bikes went round Spain, Portugal, France and Italy on the back of that van, and they got very dirty despite the cover. Just telling it like it was, no more, no less! I've carried 3 bikes for a good few years. All quality makes, 2 Trek and 1 Marin. The 2 carried on the rack have fared much worse than the, older, 1 carried in the garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 It's bewildering the choice of bikes, Mountain, Road, Hybrid zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Fixed gear, 12/18/21/elec speed zzzzzzzzz Need I go on? Nope. I'm a very keen cyclist, always have been and the one thing I will say withough doubt is get what suits you & your needs. BUT! Beg steal or borrow if you have to rather than shell out £XXXX and get it wrong. It's surprising how many cycle shops have trade in's, particularly at this time of year, you may well be able to secure a loan over a weekend for example on a try & buy basis - just a thought. Chris Boardman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 ... or go to a car boot sale - you can pick some bikes up there quite cheaply, and they're not necessarily knackered or rubbish. Cheap way to find out if you like it or not. The other option is to go onto the Freecycle site and see if anyone has any to give away ... :-S As for bikes getting dirty on the rack - it depends on how well you fit your cover/if it is big enough for your bikes in my experience. Our cover is quite large and fits well round and under the folders so they stay nice and clean, but not obviously as tightly on the full-sized bikes. If muck getting in under the cover at the bottom is an issue, then it wouldn't be outside the capabilty of most of you ( I think! :D ) to fasten a piece of thick plastic sheeting/tarpaulin or whatever you have that is waterproof to the underneath of the bike rails using cable ties to prevent it getting into the bottom in the first place. If you want to do a 'proper' job you could use a piece of perspex, waterproof hardboard etc instead I suppose ... and have a flip out bit onto which your red/white 'protruding load' sign cold be attached, for when the bikes are on . :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Mel B - 2012-07-12 6:20 PM ... or go to a car boot sale - you can pick some bikes up there quite cheaply, and they're not necessarily knackered or rubbish. Cheap way to find out if you like it or not. The other option is to go onto the Freecycle site and see if anyone has any to give away ... :-S As for bikes getting dirty on the rack - it depends on how well you fit your cover/if it is big enough for your bikes in my experience. Our cover is quite large and fits well round and under the folders so they stay nice and clean, but not obviously as tightly on the full-sized bikes. If muck getting in under the cover at the bottom is an issue, then it wouldn't be outside the capabilty of most of you ( I think! :D ) to fasten a piece of thick plastic sheeting/tarpaulin or whatever you have that is waterproof to the underneath of the bike rails using cable ties to prevent it getting into the bottom in the first place. If you want to do a 'proper' job you could use a piece of perspex, waterproof hardboard etc instead I suppose ... and have a flip out bit onto which your red/white 'protruding load' sign cold be attached, for when the bikes are on . :-> Thanks Mel - in the light of so much choice we have decided to look at s/h bikes to start with and see how it goes. I too have thought out in my own mind (or what passes for a mind these days) a base to fit on the bike rack onto which the wheel channels and fittings ( as well as possibly storage containers?) might possibly fit and onto which both the board and a cover could be secured making the whole thing a bit neater, more versatile and better protected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Tracker - 2012-07-11 11:29 AM At the moment cheap bikes have a slight lead in the favouritism stakes over pricey bikes unless we change the van for a garage version - which seems unlikely - not least due to the theft risk and road dirt degradation, although it should not be beyond the wit of man to devise a proper cover - but then again handing a filthy cover has limited appeal too! Go the cheap route and you will regret. Protecting the bikes from muck is not difficult we use a Fiamma Premium cover which completely encloses the bikes present one is on it's last legs after 4 years cost £36. If they get nicked a bit annoying but our house insurance covers us for bikes up to the value of £4000 each worldwide at no extra charge. Go to a good dealer and try some bikes out, take a cheapish £300 - £400 one for just a ½ mile ride then hop on a slightly better one say £600 - £650 price range you will be amazed at the difference, or if you are really feeling flushed "do a Nick" and splash of 2 or 3 grand each on nice carbon ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Hi Tracker; I would advise going to a specialist bike shop, and not necessarily one that sells car parts and other stuff. Get advice and sit on a few. You really need to have a bike fitting; getting the saddle height right and the handlebars also at the right height will make loads of difference to your comfort. Most people have the saddle too low and pedal with a very bent leg; so that they can put both feet down when they stop........ not good. Get some advice, shop around and pay a few more pounds, it will be worth it........and you'll enjoy your cycling, regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Lenny if your insurer is M&S they dont cover electric bikes unfortunately...If it is not would you mind sharing please :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Sorry Eddie it is M&S. Now you have a real bike with the added on electric bit is it still classed as an electric bike for insurance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 lennyhb - 2012-07-13 12:33 PM Sorry Eddie it is M&S. Now you have a real bike with the added on electric bit is it still classed as an electric bike for insurance? Yes I believe it is. M&S where adamant that they did not insure e bikes when I asked. and as my bike cost £1100 and electric kit £1050 I would want both insured. anyway the new bike which I pick up tomorrow for Mrs M is a full electric bike. I found a household insurer UIA who are pretty good.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuevoboy Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Protecting the bikes from muck is not difficult we use a Fiamma Premium cover which completely encloses the bikes present one is on it's last legs after 4 years cost £36. If they get nicked a bit annoying but our house insurance covers us for bikes up to the value of £4000 each worldwide at no extra charge. QUOTE] Lenny, I'd love to know who your insurer is. When we last enquired about our £4,000 tandem, they wanted £500 per year to insure it alone. 8-) Our other 4 bikes are worth around £1,000 each and they aren't covered either. By the way, they're carried on a rack on the back of the 'van with no cover (just triple locked) and have been out in all weathers. Well, we do live in Wales after all. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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