Brambles Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Basil. OK, I concede, I do indeed think you are correct now. Apologies as I have mislead and am indeed wrong. I am astounded there is enough power in the thermocouple to drive the solenoid but appears to work by having a minute coil but with the magnet assisting then it holds the valve open. It must be with the intense heat of the flame enough current is generated. The external coil 444 may be as you suggest for additional control. I am astounded I have this wrong as I have seen valves operated as I described but in this case you are indeed correct. Apologies. We learn all the time. Jon. p.s. Where is the cheapest place to buy a spade!!!! Oh! I don't need one, manage quite well without to dig holes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Sorry Basil, I feel a right pratt now. Thanks for all your effort arguing your point to convince me, but finally penny has dropped and I have learned something. Have not read my posts again and no intention of doing so but just hope I did not insult you at all, or not too much anyway. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairweather camper Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Brambles - 2012-08-27 8:34 PM Val, glad you have it all fixed. Must be a relief as parts are so expensive. I now have a spare Thermocoupler, that cost me 30 quid, but still cheaper than getting someone to look at it (except I couldn't) Thanks Val Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairweather camper Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Basil - 2012-08-27 8:47 PM fairweather camper - 2012-08-27 8:08 PM Hi Thanks to you both for your information, you will be pleased to know that we have cleaned and blown relevant parts and the Fridge is now working well, I could not see any dirt or scum, but obviously there must have been something stopping it from turning the gas off completely. Thanks once again for your help, much appreciated. Val I am pleased it is working for you now, it doesn't need much to hold the valve just off its seating. Good luck. Bas Thanks Basil you are indeed very knowlegable and have saved me a lot of money, these Forums are a great source of information. Thanks Val Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Hey no worries Brambles, we all misunderstand from time to time, I know I do and it is only by discussion that the penny drops. I certainly don't feel insulted by anything you said, I hope I wasn't too forceful in my attemps to explain, a good discussion in my book! Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 bob b - 2012-08-27 8:04 PMI checked the gas control valve and found that the solonoid coil is 'open circuit'. I think the meter reading should be something like 25 - 30 millivolts. Correction to my post. That reading relates to the thermocouple when in operation. The solonoid should give a resistance reading, and not be open circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Basil - 2012-08-27 11:52 PM Hey no worries Brambles, we all misunderstand from time to time, I know I do and it is only by discussion that the penny drops. I certainly don't feel insulted by anything you said, I hope I wasn't too forceful in my attemps to explain, a good discussion in my book! Bas Is Part 444 which I have been calling the coil, actually contacts for completing the circuit from the thermocouple to the FFD magnetic device (500), and therefore connected to the control switch to select the power source, which actually just opens or closes the connection? This would make sense to me as you can turn of the gas from this switch even though there is no 12 volts available. Hence 444 must be purely contacts and circuit is compeleted by the control switch (onleft). Does this make sense? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 It certainly appears to have two male Amptag type connections on it from the drawing, I don't have this type of fridge and mine does not have that part fitted, though all other parts are identical. That would seem to suggest that a circuit can be connected, however it could only be used to shut the valve (and therefore gas) off, I believe, as to re-ignite would require manually pushing the control valve in again as on first ignition. The only time I have seen this kind of circuit used has been for either a flame proving circuit or as part of a safety shut down on overheating, e.g. the circuit is passed through a small thermostat containing an electric switch that opens when a predetermined temperature is reached so breaking the circuit from the thermocouple and making the FFD drop out. Neither of these circuits would be used on a refridgerator with such a small gas usage, I would have thought, so don't really know what it is in the absence of a description. Interesting though! (Just re read that, how sad am I!! LoL.) Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 As I've got mine in bits I thought I post a couple of pictures of the assembly in question. According to Leisure Spares the solonoid assembly is not sold seperately, so I've had to order the complete gas control valve. A snip at £139.61 including VAT & P&P!Note The spring loaded plunger valve is positioned the wrong way round in the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Really useful pic so thanks for posting. But can I ask if you can post a pic of the white plastic module end on or decribe if it has contacts which make with the thermocouple and solenoid please? As to the solenoid, these appear to be fairly generic and stamdard FFD devices. I actually found one yesterday searching which was only £20 or something like that. Found it using Google images and seaching for FFD devices. I shall take a look again shortly and should be in my history somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MA01-PEL22-FFD-FSD-GAS-FLAME-FAILURE-VALVE-MAGNET-ONLY-/140389367549?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item20afdbbefd This was it, gives dimensions so can be compared. another http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MA03-MICRO-MIDGET-VALVE-MAGNET-FITS-IMPERIAL-GAS-OVEN-/130372917253?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item1e5ad4d805 and another http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MA02-MAGNET-SUITS-PEL-20-21-EGA-JUNKERS-FFD-GAS-VALVE-/140389367567?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item20afdbbf0f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Strange they should say it is not available seperately when they list it from the parts list drop down on the link I gave earlier, which leads to http://www.leisureshopdirect.com/default.aspx?shop=caravan&menu=ventilation&Page=2&Product=9196&dpn_id=1981#136323 then to full description where they say delivery in1-7 days for a cost of £48.91 inc.and a stock window auto opens to say it is a stock item!! http://www.leisureshopdirect.com/caravan/ventilation/product_36323/Dometic_Mountings_for_Magnet_Insert.aspx very strange! Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Sorry just ramblings. Like you I would be interested to know what that part does as it doesn't appear to be an interuptor. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Maybe Bob is referring to Liesure spares as in http://www.leisurespares.co.uk/stock/Dometic/6-Series-Fridges/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Basil, re the strange white coil? thingy. There is one fitted to my fridge. What I do know is if I light the fridge, turn of the leisure battery so there is no 12 volts to the fridge, The fridge stays lit. Then if I turn the seletor swicth which the 'coil' I believe connects to, there is a click from the fail safe device and flame goes out. I have never really thought much about this before, but seems to me the only way the selector can switch off the gas is by isolating the thermocouple if thete is an absenceof 12 volts. I always assumed, possibly agian wrongly, it was a coil and even though I have inspected the part in the past I cannot remember what it looks like and could be contacts. The two cables are both black so polarity of connections is not important. If it was a coil being supplied with a voltage then I would have thought polarity would be important as the solenoid assembly contains a magnet. So what the heck is it if not contacts to switch the thermocouple contection in and out of circuit with the FFD device. All I can offer at the moment. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 As Brambles surmised, I actually ordered the gas control assembly from Leisure Spares, who incidentally informed me that it is only sold as a complete unit! I've now saved Leisure Shop to my favorites.The white plastic thing with the tags has a metal disc inserted (fixed) in the middle of it. The thermocouple is in contact with it on one side and the 'plunger' valve is in contact on the other.When energised the valve plunger is pulled out against the spring and allows gas to flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Thanks for info Bob, so the white bit is a contact assembly so the thermocouple can be switched out of circuit. What looks like a single disk will be two disks separated with an insulation layer, each disk being connected to a spade terminal blade. Cannot see it being anything else now. Useful to know because anyone with such a device and thinks the thermocouple is not working should check there is a short across this when the selector switch is in the gas position Always possible the selector switch is faulty. So this then raises another question. How do similar models of fridges without this turn off the gas when selecting an electric power source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I agree with you Brambles and thanks for the information Bob, it is an interupter then, strangely seems a little over engineered for the job it is doing, unusual in this day and age! Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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