shock and horror!

[foxy]

having read an earlier thread on tax revenues for motorhomes, which depended on weight, I examined my tax disk and realised I was paying road tax for a weight up to 3500kg. I have a 2006 auto trail cheyenne 696g which has the uprated weight (Done by autotrail) of 3850kg. So by my reckoning this should be tax band 10 and not 11. I went back to the dealer who sold it new to me and explained the situation as in my mind they had registered the vehicle incorrectly, shrug of the shoulders you will have to contact DVLA they said.

 

Now thinking about it I have also realised that I have been loading the vehicle to 3850kg which, If I was ever stopped and weighed by the police, the information from the dvla database would show me as 3500kg. A fine would then ensue. my insurance invalid.

 

Do I have any recourse with the dealer? negligence etc.

 

Or do i just take it on the chin.

 

I would reccommend you check your vehicle tax band in case there are others out there with the same problem unknown to them.

[snowie]

Hi foxy;

you don't mention any timeline on this?

If the dealer was responsible for organizing the uprating and subsequent reregisering. If this was done recently then I think you have a decent case and a right to expect a more helpful attitude at the very least.

I would keep a note of the time you spend on the matter and advise them that you will expect reimbursement of reasonable expense at the conclusion of the process.

I would write them a very polite but factual letter suggesting to them that you hold them responsible for any costs involved in rectifying their mistake.

Having had a couple of successful "small claims " I think you have a reasonable case; but have some idea of what you expect to achieve before you write that letter,

 

cheers,

alan b

[camocam1]

I would say that if you bought it new with the uprated weight then it was clearly the dealers responsibility to ensure it was registered correctly with DVLA

I would go to citazean's advise or similar organisation for guidance, you could also contact the manufacturer direct and ask them for advise as they must have some control over dealerships

are you a member of caravan club etc, they may be able to help / offer advice

[Tony Jones]

I suspect that in the end, if you were stopped for this, the plate on the vehicle (3850?) would carry more weight (sorry!) than the DVLA database.

But you'd probably have to go through all sorts of pain to get to that point.

 

So it makes more sense to notify DVLA now about the error, and get their records correected. They'll probably want to see a photo of the plate, unless you've still got documentation from Autotrail showing the uprating.

 

Make sure your licence covers the higher weight as well - if you passed your test before 1997 but you're still under 70 you should be fine, otherwise you need to get it changed, which may entail a test and/or medical!

[foxy]

been back onto the dealers and they are looking into it.

I wait with bated breath

[Ninian]

Hi, I've tried searching to find what the rate should be for the different bands and I'm unable to find it. What do you think the yearly rate should be for bands 10 & 11. I think my van is the same as yours uprated to the 3850kg but I've never questioned it as it was registered by the main dealer. Again my van is an Autotrail.

 

Thanks.

[foxy]

 

 

This is from an earlier posting that started this off

 

 

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/~/media/pdf/leaflets/v149.ashx

 

you will find both class 10 private HGV (over 3500kg) £165.00

class 11 PLG (under 3500) £220.00

[peacock312]

We had the same Shock& Horror March last year,our new van bought new NEC. Oct 2009 requested max3500kgs turned out to be 4000kgs max gross weight,dealer not interested,excuse,anyone can make a mistake!!from the managing director! it took five months wrangling with DVLA to get sorted,they required everything inc.cert of compliance.everyone said sue the dealer,what good would that do?he would offer to buy back said van at a vastly reduced price,slap on a few grand and actually make a bomb.

I wish you luck in your efforts to correct this,only bonus will be your road tax will be lower,i got a refund,BUT you have to ask DVLA for it,i recently passed medical for the higher weight,so am o/k for 3 more years

[Wooie]

Hi Paul,

 

I had exactly the same problem with mine.

 

The dealer registered is at 3,500 Kgs even though it had been uprated to 3,850 Kgs.

 

I only noticed when i came to tax it after 12 months.

 

The dealer just said " contact the DVLA " everything will be fine.

 

I have a DVLA office not that far away so i took it there myself.

 

It took a while to do ( conflicting Info ) from the DVLA but i got there in the end,

but it still took 2 months.

 

What i had to produce was the " Certificate of Conformity " which has the correct

weight on with the date it was done, signed and stamped.

 

Only then was the DVLA prepared to change the V5 and re-register it as " Private HGV "

and then the road tax came down to £165.

 

If you have an office that is close enough to go to it`s better than trying to do it by post.

 

If you have to post the info make sure you do it by " Recorded delivery " then you have

proof of it arriving and the date etc.

 

Hope this helps

 

Regards.

 

Graham.

[rupert123]

Why does eveyone blame dealers, they do make mistakes like us all. It is up to the individual to make sure they get what they pay for and check the details before driving away. Cannot believe anyone could drive around for six years and not notice they are in the wrong tax band, then admit it on here. I agree the dealer should put right any mistakes but with this sort of thing it is just as easy to sort out yourself or just leave it as is. How will it effect your insurance, weight/tax band is a question I have never been asked by an insurance company just as long as van is correctly listed as to type, make etc.

[Wooie]

rupert123 - 2012-08-23 5:26 PM

 

Why does eveyone blame dealers, they do make mistakes like us all. It is up to the individual to make sure they get what they pay for and check the details before driving away. Cannot believe anyone could drive around for six years and not notice they are in the wrong tax band, then admit it on here. I agree the dealer should put right any mistakes but with this sort of thing it is just as easy to sort out yourself or just leave it as is. How will it effect your insurance, weight/tax band is a question I have never been asked by an insurance company just as long as van is correctly listed as to type, make etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It needs sorting out as soon as possible.

 

It took all my will-power not to give the " young girl 20 ish " a mouthfull back as she all but

reprimanded " good and proper " for not giving the DVLA the correct information in the first

place and she wanted to know " WHY " it took me 12 months to give them the correct info.

 

I tried explaining that the dealer had registered it wrong but she wasn`t interested and that

i had been driving an " illegal " vehicle and it would have served my right if i`d been caught !

[Mel B]

foxy - 2012-08-23 11:51 AM

 

having read an earlier thread on tax revenues for motorhomes, which depended on weight, I examined my tax disk and realised I was paying road tax for a weight up to 3500kg. I have a 2006 auto trail cheyenne 696g which has the uprated weight (Done by autotrail) of 3850kg. So by my reckoning this should be tax band 10 and not 11. I went back to the dealer who sold it new to me and explained the situation as in my mind they had registered the vehicle incorrectly, shrug of the shoulders you will have to contact DVLA they said.

 

Okay, firstly you bought it NEW from the dealer, so it's taken 6 years for you to 'realise' you've been paying the wrong rate *-) ... should've gone to spec savers much sooner! (lol)

 

What this means in financial terms is that you've been paying over the odds for your road tax for that period of time due to the dealer's error, so assuming it averages around an extra £50 a year, that's £300! 8-) As they are looking into the matter hopefully they will sort out the change to the recorded weight with the DVLA soon at no cost to you.

 

I don't think it is unreasonable for you to ask them to stump up for your over-payment of road tax for the interim period - they may say that after the first year it was your fault, which to some extent it was as you just re-taxed it, but it's gotta be worth a try, but get the weight sorted first before you go down this route!

 

Check what weight your insurers have you recorded as, as this could have a bearing if any claims are made. Also, check your breakdown cover too to make sure you are in the correct category with them.

 

Have fun! :D

[Brian Kirby]

Emphatically no! The following standard wording is reproduced from the front page of the V5C.

 

"The Registered Keeper remains liable for the vehicle until DVLA is notified of its sale/transfer/scrapped/export and is responsible for ensuring the vehicle is properly registered and licensed."

 

This is emphasised by being written in bold type.

 

I'm sorry, but that hardly chimes with not noticing a fundamental mistake by the dealer until six years later. By all means ask the dealer to rectify the error, but forget compensating you for your failure to check the document on acquisition. Next time, just check the document as soon as you get it. It was/is your legal responsibility.

[Derek Uzzell]

To the best of my knowledge a 2006 Fiat-based Auto-Trail Cheyenne 696G was only ever built on a Ducato 'Maxi' 3850kg chassis. Consequently, the 3850kg maximum overall weight of foxy's motorhome was the 2006 standard and not an Auto-Trail 'uprate'. As he says, the vehicle should always have been in VED Tax Class 10 not in Tax Class 11.

 

Plainly a mistake was made when foxy's vehicle was first UK-registered but, although it's likely the fault was the selling dealership's, it's far from unknown for the DVLA to get things wrong.

 

Realistically, 6 years on, it's going to be very difficult to identify who was to blame and, as Brian points out, it's the vehicle's Registered Keeper's responsibility to ensure that it's correctly registered.

[Guest peter]

Brian Kirby - 2012-08-23 6:46 PM

 

Emphatically no! The following standard wording is reproduced from the front page of the V5C.

 

"The Registered Keeper remains liable for the vehicle until DVLA is notified of its sale/transfer/scrapped/export and is responsible for ensuring the vehicle is properly registered and licensed."

 

This is emphasised by being written in bold type.

 

I'm sorry, but that hardly chimes with not noticing a fundamental mistake by the dealer until six years later. By all means ask the dealer to rectify the error, but forget compensating you for your failure to check the document on acquisition. Next time, just check the document as soon as you get it. It was/is your legal responsibility.

Spot on Brian. Some people eh?.

[Derek Uzzell]

I don't think it will be practicable for foxy's dealer to correct this mistake. Foxy is the motorhome's registered keeper and responsible for informing the DVLA of any changes affecting the vehicle's UK registration.

 

In peacock312's and Wooie's cases mentioned earlier in this thread, they both dealt directly with the DVLA rather than the motorhome dealer acting as a proxy. There have been a good few other instances reported over the years on this forum where a motorhome has been placed in an inappropriate VED class (or not registerd as a "Motor Caravan") and it's always been the vehicle's registered keeper who has needed to liaise with the DVLA to sort matters out.

 

I suspect that a Certificate of Conformity will not be available for foxy's Auto-Trail, as this document is issued as part of a motorhome's Type Approval process and I think Auto-Trail motorhomes may not have been Type Approved in 2006. (Auto-Trail should be able to say.)

 

However, foxy's motorhome will carry a VIN data-plate on which the 3850kg datum is clearly stated together with the motorhome's unique VIN Number. The VIN number will have been provided to the DVLA when the motorhome was registered in 2006 and will be printed on the motorhome's V5C registration document. The VIN Number uniquely identifies the motorhome and links to the DVLA registration records, while the motorhome's VIN data-plate links to the VIN Number and provides weight-related information.

 

I've never had any trouble dealing with the DVLA, but I've always tried to cooperate with their requirements rather than try to get them to cooperate with mine. In foxy's shoes, if there were a local DVLA office within easy reach

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/contactus/localoffices/findnear.aspx

 

I'd visit them, explain the situation and ask what's the best way forward. Otherwise I'd write to the nearest DVLA office and do the same.

 

As it will be evident from the motorhome's VIN data-plate that the vehicle has been in the wrong VED Tax Class since 2006, a photo of the VIN-plate may be sufficient evidence for the DVLA to alter the Tax Class. I suspect though that the DVLA may wish to have the vehicle physically inspected and, perhaps, have supporting documentation (eg. a 2006 Auto-Trail brochure) to confirm that the 3850kg weight is correct.

 

The current annual VED tax of £165 for Tax Class 10 has been static since before 2006 and foxy will have paid an extra £215 during the 2006-2012 period when his motorhome has wrongly been in Tax Class 11. I doubt that this excess payment will be recoverable.

 

 

[Wooie]

Derek,

 

the reason i mentioned about the " Certificate of Conformity " is that my van

is also a 2006 model and i have the certificate from the Explorer Group.

 

I assumed that a similar year model from Auto-Trail would have the same.

 

My van has the original Peugeot plate showing 3,500 Kgs and next to it is the

ALKO KOBER plate showing 3,850 Kgs, also on the van by the habitation door

is the Explorer Group plate showing 3,850 Kgs and the serial number.

 

The conflicting info i got was from the DVLA, the person i spoke to at Swansea said

all i needed to do was to take my vehicle to the nearest office and show them.

 

I made the appointment and arrived at the office only to be told by the person who

came out to look at the van that these plates were " NOT " proof of anything and

they could have been put on by " anyone "

 

They informed me that i was driving a vehicle with " incorrect " data registered at

the DVLA and i was liable to prosecution and should take the vehicle straight home

and not park it on the public highway until it had been sorted.

 

After numerous " frustrating " phone calls someone mentioned the certificate.

 

One of the problems is that every time you phone you speak to a different person

who gives different advice.

 

I searched through everything i had and found it " inside " some of the other

paperwork i had received when i bought the van.

 

I didn`t know that i had it until i searched.

 

My fault i know but do you go through every page of every manual to see if anything

else is in there. I think it was the fridge manual and as i already knew the particular

model i didn`t bother looking through it.

 

Regards.

 

Graham.

[Robinhood]

.....as I've posted before, my experience of the DVLA has been somewhat more positive, along the lines of Derek's.

 

I doubt there will be a CoC readily available (since type approval wasn't compulsory for motorhomes in 2006, and I believe Autotrail started their process somewhat later).

 

The 2006 brochure is readily downloadable from the Autotrail website, and clearly shows that the provision of the upgraded chassis is standard for the vehicle in question.

 

I would be inclined to approach the local DVLA office (whilst there still is one!), initially with a print of the appropriate page from the brochure, a picture of the vehicle (showing the model number), and a picture of the vin plate.

 

Whilst it is certainly possible that you might meet a "jobsworth" that information (particularly if the vin plate is endorsed Autotrail) should be enough to complete the process (especially if you calmly relate your story).

[foxy]

update.

 

contacted my local office, face to face with a human, who was very helpful, It transpires that it was an oversight by the local office. I have to furnish proof of the uprated version to correct the V5c and fill in a form that is being sent out to me.

 

In answer to the people who said I should have known after 6 years, I`m afraid no, call me naive but I trusted everyone to do there job right. To me PLG meant the tax band for my vehicle, end of. not that there are two bands. I never knew until I read a thread on this site earlier on. Hand on heart how many people know there are differences.

 

As I said my local office at the moment are being very helpful and it is nice for the face to face discussions, but guess what all local offices are being closed next year. Everything to be done online, what a nightmare this would have been having to get across to a computer that someone got it wrong.

 

someone mentioned what has insurance got to do with it, In my mind my vehicle is registered at 3850kg when in reality it is 3500kg, so I load up to lets say 3750kg I am involved in an accident police check documents I am in their eyes overloaded insurance may then be invalidated get the picture.

 

yes I realise it is my responsibility to check the log book is correct but as I said I thought everything was correct

So will have a few anxious days or weeks until it is finally corrected.

[Robinhood]

Well it looks like you'll get it sorted out, and that your experience of the DVLA is more akin to Derek's and mine than some others.

 

In essence, the issue of tax category should be of no interest to your insurer - it's a legal matter between you and HMRC/DVLA.

 

I have never been asked the plated weight of my motorhome (and I've had two that were uprated to 3850kg from scratch). Demonstrably, if the vehicle is plated at 3850kg, then it cannot be overloaded (ignoring any axle-weight issues) at 3750kg.

 

I don't believe your insurance company will be at all interested (and I would be suprised if there is any mention of the weight on your insurance documents - and the standard model is rated at 3850kg anyway) ....but if you are concerned, simply tell them for the record.

[Derek Uzzell]

foxy - 2012-08-24 7:21 PM

 

...Hand on heart how many people know there are differences...

 

Impossible to answer, but I would have thought that a significant percentage of motorcaravanners will be aware that motorhomes with a Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) above 3500kg should be in VED Taxation Class 10 not TC 11. This forum search using "PLG" as the keyword indicates that VED-related queries are not uncommon.

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=PLG&author=&days=&Submit=Search

 

I imported my current motorhome from Germany in 2005, which meant that I needed to deal with the vehicle's UK registration myself. The DVLA issues a guidance document on how to complete the application form relating to the registration of a new vehicle. The guidance document states that the VED Taxation Class field in the application form should be left blank, as there was a variety of VED Taxation Classes and the DVLA would choose the correct Class for the vehicle being registered.

 

However, when I spoke to a motorhome dealer acquaintance and asked if there was anything I should watch out for when completing the registration application form, he told me to ensure that I entered "Private or light goods (PLG)" or "Private HGV" in the form's Taxation Class field according to whether my motorhome was respectively up-to-3500kg MAM or over-3500kg MAM. He said that doing this "helped the DVLA not to get it wrong". So (as you've now discovered) the DVLA can make mistakes.

 

Like Robinhood, I don't think the fact that your motorhome is currently in the wrong VED Taxation Class much matters. Even if you were stopped at a VOSA roadside check and your motorhome tested for being overweight, it would be the weight-data on the vehicle's VIN-plate that would be used and the VED Taxation Class would be academic. In the unlikely event that it were noticed that the 3850kg figure on the VIN-plate and the PLG VED Taxation Class were incompatible, I can't see the DVLA being concerned in your case as you've being paying more annually than you should. (Might be trickier if you'd been paying the VED TC 10 rate on an up-to-3500kg MAM vehicle!) If you were found to be driving at a speed inappropriate for an over-3850kg MAM vehicle, that offence would have nothing to do with the VED Taxation Class. You've always known that your Auto-Trail had a MAM of 3850kg and, presumably, knew that this fact was relevant to speed limits.

 

The implications of owning/driving up-to-3500kg MAM or over-3500kg MAM motorhomes are discuused here:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=28691&posts=8

[davidmac]

Hi when I brought my motorhome 6 months ago it was taxed as a PLG (3500kg) but has a SVTech plate for 4150 kg. As the tax runs out at the end of August I contacted SVTech, they told me to send them photos of the plate and the manufactures plate which I did and the next day weight certificate, DLVA weight change form and a few notes on what to do arrived in the post. I filled in the form ,took it along to Northampton DLVA, waited 10 min for my turn spent 5 min at the desk and walked away with a PHGV tax disc and just have to wait for Swansea to send the new registration document. In my case it was easy , I hope you do as well.

Regards David