Archiesgrandad Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I don't have time to explain now, but we've bought a middle aged Hymer. Everything seems OK, except the water heater. When I first started checking things, I could switch the thing on and the green light would come on and then after 10 or 15 seconds the red light came on. Heaven knows how many times I tried to no avail, and then this morning I noticed that the winter cover was still on. I removed the cover, but now I can't get the green light to come on. I've checked the12volt fuses, there is plenty of gas in the tank, and I can't see anything that I can press or reset on the unit itself. We are off to France on Monday, does anyone have any ideas. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 All I can suggest is you flap fresh air into the vent and then try again. I assume the red light is still coming on. If so it is possibe the repeated trying with the cover on has damaged or coated something with soot and needs checking by someone experienced with Truma boilers. You do have it filled with water dont you and bled the air out via the taps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 What model of heater is it? Have you checked to see if you have gas to the boiler as there may be a central manifold somewhere in the MH with valves to isolate all the gas appliances. My Truma can work without water so we need to no which type you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 The mention of a "winter cover" suggests the Truma appliance is an "Ultrastore" water boiler. First thing would be to download the relevant instruction documents for the model of boiler involved from Truma's website and check the troubleshooting guide. http://dealer.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma-Katalog/gb/boiler/boiler.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 Hi, One of the problems is, we don't have any of the instruction books for the van, there is plenty of gas, and everything else works, as ever the thing is well and truly buried in the furniture so I can't see the identification plate on it, but I can see a sticker which includes the words "water heater"in 7 languages. Neither of the lights, red or green will now come on. I'v we checked the 12 volt fuses, and all appear good, but there is no indication what any of the individual fuses protects. The van is a1994 Hymer on a Fiat chassis, I think he said it's a B564, and I guess the water heater is original. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Does it also have electrical operation? Does this work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 On mine I recall there being a fuse under the cover were the 12 volt supply goes in. So I think it is worth putting your best crampons on and full cave exploring protection gear on, and diving down into the boiler and inspecting under the cover and also near by for any inline fuses. If you have a voltmeter you can check you are getting 12 volts supply to the terminal block under the cover. Also try disconnecting the power to the boiler ( you can disconnect the leisure battery) for a couple of minutes and reconnect. Then try lighting boiler again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Archiesgrandad - 2012-08-29 10:11 AM Hi, One of the problems is, we don't have any of the instruction books for the van, there is plenty of gas, and everything else works, as ever the thing is well and truly buried in the furniture so I can't see the identification plate on it, but I can see a sticker which includes the words "water heater"in 7 languages. Neither of the lights, red or green will now come on. I'v we checked the 12 volt fuses, and all appear good, but there is no indication what any of the individual fuses protects. The van is a1994 Hymer on a Fiat chassis, I think he said it's a B564, and I guess the water heater is original. AGD These files contain, respectively, the Installation and Operating Instructions for the Truma B10/B14 "Ultrastore" water-boiler manufactured between 07/1993 and 05/2002. http://dealer.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma-Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/70_000/70000_64900.pdf http://dealer.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma-Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/70_000/70000_65000.pdf Operating this Truma appliance on gas is very straightforward - fill the boiler with water, remove the cowl-cap from the boiler's external intake/exhaust, turn on the gas supply, set the desired water temperature on the boiler's control-panel, and then move the control-panel's On/Off switch to the On position. The control-panel's green monitor lamp should now illuminate. If a fault is subsequently detected (eg. there's no gas, the cowl-cap has not been removed or overheating has been detected) a red "Failure" lamp on the control-panel will illuminate. As this appliance is pretty simple, trouble-shooting advice is minimal. In fact the only advice Truma provides is, if the red lamp illuminates (after checking there's nothing obviously wrong like the boiler being empty of water, the cowl-cap still being in place, or there being no gas) one should switch off the boiler, wait 5 minutes and then switch it back on. In your case, when the green lamp was illuminating followed by the red "Failure" lamp, it's reasonable to asssume that this was because you had not removed the cowl-cap. The cowl-cap is not a 'winter cover' - it's there to minimise the chance of water/muck/insects getting into the appliance via the external intake/exhaust. Although plenty of people leave the cowl-cap off on a semi-permanent basis, Truma emphasises on Page 3 of the Operating Instructions that the cowl-cap should be mounted whenever the boiler is not being used. As the control-panel's green lamp no longer illuminates, it's a fair guess that there's now an electrical fault. You say that you've checked the 12V fuses and they all seem OK. However, as Brambles says, the boiler carries it's own 12V fuse. There's a drawing showing its location (Fig. E on the 2nd page of the Installation Instructions) and fuse-details are given in Section 5 of Page 5. You might also find this earlier forum thread useful http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=15703&posts=7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I'd also check that the flue/exhaust is clear of debris. Hard to believe, but I understand that even a spiders web can prevent the boiler from igniting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 bob b - 2012-08-29 8:11 PM I'd also check that the flue/exhaust is clear of debris. Hard to believe, but I understand that even a spiders web can prevent the boiler from igniting! Yes, but the critical thing in this instance is that the boiler is now 'dead'. If there were debris in the intake/exhaust, on moving the control-panel's switch to the 'On' position, the boiler should still enter the start-up phase and the control-panel's green lamp should illuminate. Even if there were something that would cause the boiler to go into "Failure" mode later on (eg. no gas/water, cowl-cap on, debris/spider-web in intake/exhaust), this should not prevent the boiler from entering the start-up phase. If the green lamp does not illuminate (assuming, of course, that the green lamp itself has not now failed!), then the start-up phase is not commencing and subsequent fault-detection won't take place. While there are several things that will prevent the boiler's gas-burner from igniting or staying alight (when the red "Failure" lamp should light up and the boiler shut down), none of these should prevent the start-up phase being initiated. If the green lamp illuminates, followed some seconds later by the red lamp, then it would make good sense to check for junk in the intake/exhaust. But, if the green lamp does not illuminate and the boiler fails to enter the start-up phase, cleaning out the intake/exhaust won't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Jon mentioned checking the 12v supply to the boiler have you done this? The red light can also indicate low voltage and will come on is the voltage is under 11v. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I had this fault a while back, and as lenny says if your leisure battery is in a low state of charge this can trigger the failure red light to come on. I was on site with no EHU for a few days and on running the engine for awhile, it then relite. It does mention of this possible problem in the boiler manual. It as also been stated that you have checked the boiler fuses, it may be an idea to check that the connections are clean and tight so that no voltage drop occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Not familiar with the unit but from a gas engineers point of view it sounds to me like its timing out on ignition (ie. it hasnt ignited in a given time period) and going onto failiure mode. Could be faulty spark igniter, igniter probe or igniter lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I hesitate to repeat myself, but the current problem is not the boiler going into "Failure" mode (which was originally happening, probably because the cowl-cap was still in place), but that the boiler does not react at all when switched on. As Archiesgrandad highlighted earlier in this thread "Neither of the lights, red or green will now come on". Even if the battery voltage were too low to allow the gas to be ignited, I believe the boiler should still enter the start-up phase (ie. the control-panel's green lamp should light and diagnostic system checks commence). That the green lamp no longer lights suggests that 12V power is not reaching the boiler. This could be because a fuse in the 12V supply to the boiler has failed or the boiler's own fuse has failed. Other possibiities might be that the boiler's PCB has developed a fault or the green lamp itself has failed - but a 12V-fuse failure is the simplest and most credible explanation. Assuming it's not just a simple green-lamp failure (which I think unlikely), unless the boiler can be made to enter the start-up phase (ie. green lamp illuminated) speculating what might result in a subsequent "Failure" shut-down (low voltage, ignition-system fault, etc.) won't contribute to finding a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Derek yes your right I hadnt read all the post correctly i.e the fact that it wasnt do anything now. So as you say has to be a supply problem now, however there could be an underlying issue we have yet to resolve :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hi, Thank you all for your help and advice, I eventually gave up and via the Truma website I found that my nearest service agent was Wokingham Caravans, with whom I had dealt once before. A phone call at 15.00 on Wednesday resulted in me taking the van to them by 17.00. After explaining the problem and my impending holiday they said they would have a look at it but no promises, so we left it there. At 17.30, we had not got back to Windsor, they phoned to say that they had fixed it, and would we like too go back and collect it. As most of you had guessed it was the fuse on the pcb that had blown. So, can I say a big thank you to all of you who tried to help, it almost seems that it is worth having a motorhome, just to have a reason to access the forum. Can I also put in a good word for Wokingham Caravans, they also do motorhomes, both times we have used them they have been absolutely brilliant, and helpful, and friendly, I cannot recommend them too highly, the usual disclaimers apply. Many thanks AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hi, Thank you all for your help and advice, I eventually gave up and via the Truma website I found that my nearest service agent was Wokingham Caravans, with whom I had dealt once before. A phone call at 15.00 on Wednesday resulted in me taking the van to them by 17.00. After explaining the problem and my impending holiday they said they would have a look at it but no promises, so we left it there. At 17.30, we had not got back to Windsor, they phoned to say that they had fixed it, and would we like too go back and collect it. As most of you had guessed it was the fuse on the pcb that had blown. So, can I say a big thank you to all of you who tried to help, it almost seems that it is worth having a motorhome, just to have a reason to access the forum. Can I also put in a good word for Wokingham Caravans, they also do motorhomes, both times we have used them they have been absolutely brilliant, and helpful, and friendly, I cannot recommend them too highly, the usual disclaimers apply. Many thanks AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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