Air Assisted Suspension

[Tracker]

Rather than hijack another thread I have started a new 'un with Mel's thorough reply to my original ask about the ride of panel vans compared to coachbuilt.

 

 

Rich - hubby has done most of the driving (can't seem to pry him out of the driver's seat!) and says it is a doddle compared to a coachbuilt as visibility is better and the reduced width makes it less stressful especially since the brilliant mirrors make rearward vision much clearer down the sides. He says it's a lot more car-like than the Ford (which he also liked a lot) with much less resistance on the steering so he doesn't get shoulder ache either. The seats are very comfy too and the squabs are a bit longer so give ore support under the legs.

 

The ride is very good - you may recall that we had rear air-assisted suspension on the Chausson (I'd already told him that there's no way I was going to pay for it for a 3rd vehicle!) and the Accent doesn't need it - it is a little more firm but that's to be expected as it is so new, it should settle down nicely once we get a few more miles on it but I expect it will always be a bit more taught than a coachbuilt which is no bad thing!

 

It is very comfy though and we don't have anything like the 'sway' you get with a coachbuilt - it does however seem a little bit more 'bouncy' due to the wheels being virtually in all the corners as it is on the longer wheelbase, but then we don't get the 'bottom waggle' you do with coachbuilts.

 

As for noise - yes it is a lot quieter than a coachbuilt, only a couple of rattles (a cupboard door and lift up kitchen worktop flap) to sort out. We found with the coachbuilt that we got a lot of wind noise even though it was a low profile, especially from the rear habitation door and 'clunks' and 'bangs' came through as you travelled, especially when driving over 'cats eyes', ridges in the road, joints in bridges etc - these really used to upset Lily a lot when travelling as I've mentioned before. In the Accent although she was jittery when we travelled down to Shepton she wasn't 'panicking' and as we travelled around during the week she just settled down and has been a lot, lot better - we even went on the motorway a couple of times and she didn't 'panic' at all which was amazing - and yes she DID know we were going on them as she appears to recognise the blue motorway signs as she had a bit of a 'shuffle' each time she saw one before we had even gone ON them but that was all (we're careful not to trigger her by reacting ourselves!). In fact she laid in her basket and went to sleep ... totally unheard of previously!!!!

 

We have also noticed differences in the noise when living in it too - despite them not supposedly being as well insulated/soundproofed as a coachbuilt we've actually found it much quieter - when it rained we expected it to sound like a 'tin can' but it wasn't, it was less 'hollow' and 'thumpy' than a coachbuilt! Also not so much outside noise filters in which means a better sleep and less things to disturb the dogs too.

 

We haven't found storage an issue at all either - we bought loads of stuff from the camper show and car boots (don't we always!) and it swallowed it all.

 

I was concerned about the size of the fridge but I bought another door shelf/tray at the show and it is surprising just how much it will take, plus the freezer is actually bigger than our old one! Despite it only have 2 rings on the hob, cooking wasn't an issue either - especially since I've got my pressure cooker which makes things a lot easier.

 

Another thing which is a compromise is the fresh water tank as it is only 66 litres but we found we lasted 4 days on it although we didn't run it to being empty just to when the warning light came on so we might have got to 5 days (like you we don't take many showers! ).

 

We are more than likely going to sell the 'normal' car now that we've got the PVC and the Smart as they should do us nicely ... also one of the scooters can go too - unsure whether to still keep one of them though - as the Smart is so much fun to drive I know which I'll choose to take out to the shops etc but hubby does like his scooter!!!

 

Overall we're are very, very pleased with it and couldn't ask for anything better for us. I just wish we'd had the 'courage' to do it years ago!

 

If you've any questions which you think are just too silly to ask - just ask anyway (I'm used to silly questions anyway!) and I'll try to answer them as best I can. We have talked to a lot of people about PVCs over the last few years so although we've only just got one, we think we know a bit about the ins and outs of having one.

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[Mike88]

It's great to see another one has seen the light. Anti panel bashers take note. It's amazing how many threads on here and elsewhere are appearing about water leaks. That is another advantage of a panel van as they are far less likely to suffer the problems associated with leaks than than coachbuilts.

[Tracker]

Following on from this, although Dot wants us to downsize I am still not convinced!

 

I like the space and the layout works well for us but we are far less enamoured with the A/T Cheyenne 630's ride and payload.

 

So under consideration are either uprating the suspension with air assistance plus 225/75R15 LI 112 in place of the existing 215/70R15 LI 109 tyres which will give us another 240 kg on the rear axle and a GVW of 3850, up from the existing 3500.

 

By the way with everything out and allowance made for fixed extras (including the SE pack) the van weighs in at 3250 kg which is 140 more than the brochure stared MIRO of 3110 kg but within the 5% +/- allowance. I suspect that this is by no means unusual as makers try to put the best spin of their products?

 

SVTech can replate for £288 inc vat and then I have to change from PLG to PHG with the DVLA and pay £50 a year LESS road tax and then get a driving licence medical in June 2014 none of which I see as a problem right now.

 

So what will it do I wonder, will adding air assistance soften or harden the ride and what effect, if any, will the larger section tyres also have on the ride.

 

I am not too bothered about altered handing as it is hardly a high speed cornering machine!

 

Marcle Leisure's kit at £354 seems to be the least expensive way forward for air assistance for diy fit.

 

Do commercial tyres ride any softer than camper specific tyres does anyone know pleas?

 

I appreciate comments, views and advice from all but especially those amongst us who have carried out these or similar uprating exercises and can talk from their own experience.

 

Thanks guys and gals.

[Guest JudgeMental]

driverite and the like do nothing to improve ride, except jacking up the back and allowing to level rear when heavily loaded, it certainly helps and I have fitted it to 3 vehicles in the past..... But for proper improved ride quality you need full air suspension which replaces the original suspension and cost an arm and a leg

 

I doubt that being able to add more weight by changing tyres and adding simple air assist suspension will in anyway improve ride quality or handling...but that is just a gut reaction.

 

The 6 week tour of Italy and Croatia we have just returned from has confirmed my change of plan and going for the shorter 6 metre van a good move. We ended up in some very tight spots indeed, and being able to reverse or multi point turn our way out of trouble was excellent for my blood pressure. In similar situations before I have damaged the CB...not good!

 

being able to park in city car parks near attractions along with cars also greatly helped with the busy touring schedule in Tuscany etc....

 

my van is solid and great to drive especially on demanding mountain roads (again great for the BP) Could never envisage going back to a CB its simply not as pleasant a driving or holiday experience......

 

spot on Mike by the way!

[davidmac]

Hi I have a Luxor A class on a lwb Peugoet with alko air assist on the rear axle plated at 4150 and weighs +/- 3900 when traveling. With no pump up it looks about level front to rear. I have tried different pressures to see if there is any difference to the ride but all seem to make it worse as the rear is higher giving more bodyrole so now I only use it to help with leveling when parked up. Perhaps if towing with a high noseweight it might help but I dont tow so just guesing about that.

Regards David

[Tracker]

Thanks Eddy - I agree with everything that you say on this subject.

 

I just need to get my head round less stowage space, narrower beds, less room to pass each other (and the dog) in the van aisle, less kitchen worktop and a smaller loo compartment.

 

Apart from that a panel van would suit our style of travel well!

[Guest JudgeMental]

Tracker - 2012-09-15 12:41 PM

 

Thanks Eddy - I agree with everything that you say on this subject.

 

I just need to get my head round less stowage space, narrower beds, less room to pass each other (and the dog) in the van aisle, less kitchen worktop and a smaller loo compartment.

 

Apart from that a panel van would suit our style of travel well!

 

 

mark this day peoples, 15. 09. in the year 2012. Tracker finally concedes that moi is capable of actually talking sense :D

 

Yes they are tighter, and while perfect for one, you need to consider getting around each other. But we do not miss the CB in any regard (except maybe garage for bikes) and much prefer this style of travelling/camping

 

if you go for a 636 van with twin singles I thing the beds as wide as any in a CB. Also you will be surprised with the load carrying. my 3300kg has over 400kg capacity. Plus 110 litre fresh, 90 litre waste, 100 litre fridge freezer, 2x11kg gas etc...same as in our last CB

 

the only problem you would have with mine is the lounging area is limited, a compromise for sure but we manage OK....but you will probably go for a UK style layout I guess, EXCEL show last year Devon looked good to us and reasonable value, probably build to own spec as well.....

 

As only 6 or 636 length to choose from, you have to decide what compromises you are prepared to make. To me the twin singles a waste of valuable living space up front, and would miss easy access to storage under lift up bed. Our Adria large transverse bed is brill, but it means one climbing over the other at times .

 

after I changed my mind and went for the 6 metre, Adria came out with the 636 SPX which has same layout as mine but uses extra length to extend lounge. I would have gone for this if it had been available at time.

 

La Strada do a similar 636 van to adria SPX but it is in a different league and expensive

[Tracker]

No need to mark the day Eddy - you often talk a lot of sense and contrary to popular belief I value your opinion - well sometimes anyway!

 

We prefer single beds because we have differing heat requirements at night. I don't feel the cold but Dot does and singles are easier in that respect.

 

It is also much easier for night time perambulations in the dark to the little room!

 

We also prefer feet up lounging and are not lovers of the half dinette arrangement when a table between the single sofa/beds works very well and saves that extra length.

 

I do not enjoy sitting in a swivelled cab seat - especially if I have been sat in it all day driving!

 

Most of the PVCs I have seen have single beds about 2' 2" ish whereas we currently have almost 2' 5" wide - and yes 3" does make a difference when it comes to adjusting your position!

 

So once we iron out those differences we should be OK!

 

Thanks for the Adria info - I'll have a look.

[Guest JudgeMental]

i dont think theh Adria's would suit you as Euro layouts. they where just an example of choices that have to be made. Most of the UK singles make up to a large double, but this even more faffing about IMO. Personally I think you are going to find the transition difficult, based on what you have said in the past.

[Tracker]

Once again I agree with you Eddy!

 

Which is why I am exploring improving both the ride and payload of the Cheyenne!

[rupert123]

Rich, as you may know I to have changed to a panel van and am by no means convinced by them as others seem to be. Have now done three short trips to sort it out and will do a longer trip from late September. Will expand my thoughts on ours in a furher post but do not rush into it, may be a bad move.

[Guest JudgeMental]

with us the transition was very easy as the Adria has an identical layout to our last CB Euramobil...Just less space. You need to do your home work carefully as its expensive if you get it wrong. That being said on a long summer trip I'm sure the advantages will begin to stack up, as long as you have picked a comfortable and practical van in the first place....

[Brian Kirby]

A growing number of converters are now using the 636 Ducato base, so it would pay to look wider than just Adria, as you may find one more suited to your needs.

 

Almost all the continental coachbuilders have PVC variants, so most of the Hymer group, Trigano Group and SEA group, plus Knaus Tabbert, Globecar and Possl, as well as La Strada and Westfalia. Most are very similar, but with detail differences such as size of water tank, gas bottle locker, number of hob burners, size of fridge etc. Sifting is real nerd's corner stuff, but probably worth the effort. An added advantage with some is that the bigger groups seem now to have access to pre-insulated moulded internal body lining panels that offer a better internal finish, and better insulation.

 

Also, don't forget the van sized coachbuilts from Hymer, Knaus and Dethleffs, where the width is scarcely more than the cab. Our Hobby Van now seems discontinued with the new one quite different and Renault Master based.

 

You may also be interested in a 2013 pair from Hymer and Burstner that are only 6 metres long, cab width, and designed primarily to overcome the loss of high level storage that most PVCs suffer, by providing a "square" coachbuilt body. For some reason the announced versions both have a full height tailgate, but other versions are promised, and I'd guess a twin bedded version will be among them. So, you can get a PVC sized coachbuilt with greater storage capacity, fair payload, and no penalty on width. If they catch on to a market need, others will soon copy - they always do!

[flicka]

Rich, it would be worthwhile going to the NEC in October to view the new Hymer & Burtner models Brian mentioned.

But there is also the existing Dethleffs Globebus range, low profile which includes a rear lounge model at almost the same width as a PVC.

As Brian also mentioned, where Hymer & Burstner lead others will follow & I wouldn't be surprised if ANOther comes out with a similar model on the 636 chassis for 2014.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I thing both of you are missing an important point, and that most of us that go over to panel vans really want to get away from the flimsy and poor construction associated with most coach built campers. Easy repair, easy cleaning and no leaks! Just a few reasons for changing.......Along with all the other benefits

[Tracker]

Thanks guys for all the valued input.

 

I don't want a Euro 5 van due the as yet unproven electronic 'advances' and 'improvements' and in particular the diesel particulate filters which are well known to be a pain in the pocket.

Perhaps when the technology is better established and proven to be trouble free - but probably not right now?

I am also unenthusiastic about ordering a new van unseen and untried with a delivery date that might, or might not, be met and specifications subject to the whims of two manufacturers.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

JudgeMental - 2012-09-16 9:31 AM

 

I thing both of you are missing an important point, and that most of us that go over to panel vans really want to get away from the flimsy and poor construction associated with most coach built campers. Easy repair, easy cleaning and no leaks! Just a few reasons for changing.......Along with all the other benefits

All true, Eddy, but also just part of the range of compromises that have to be balanced in selecting motorhomes. For every advantage one type/layout presents, there are balancing disadvantages, so all one can ever achieve is likely to be a "least worst" combination. One man's meat etc?

 

No doubt that is a large part of the reason there is such a bewildering range of van types and sizes, which, no doubt also, is an equally large part of the reason they all cost so much!. Finding the right one is a bit like the search for the Holy Grail. :-)

[Tracker]

Having very interestingly diverted by way of PVCs can I return to the original question guys?

 

Does replacing the solid rubber bump stops with semi air suspension on the rear axle improve or worsen the ride of a coachbuilt motorhome please?

 

The PVC vs CB debate will no doubt rumble on but right now if I can improve the ride and payload I am more inclined to stick with a coachbuilt - at least until the dog dies and leaves us a bit more space for us!

[Guest JudgeMental]

Hi Brian, here is video of the only compromise that I am willing to make:-D The La Strada Avante(German) van that I want........ double floor and garage for expensive E bikes, loads of storage due to extra height, and separate shower. About 45k at present exchange rates...

 

 

edit: Tracker....you invited the panel van debate by extensively quoting Mels post as an introduction. the air bag wont make things worse, but if you intend to upgrade and carry more weight will hardly improve the ride and driving characteristics I would think

 

 

[PJay]

Tracker - 2012-09-16 11:46 AM

 

Having very interestingly diverted by way of PVCs can I return to the original question guys?

 

Does replacing the solid rubber bump stops with semi air suspension on the rear axle improve or worsen the ride of a coachbuilt motorhome please?

 

The PVC vs CB debate will no doubt rumble on but right now if I can improve the ride and payload I am more inclined to stick with a coachbuilt - at least until the dog dies and leaves us a bit more space for us!

YES. We are very pleased with the ride of our Dunlop Air suspension. bought from Marcle and fitted by our local Fiat Dealer (Could be fitted by self, but Husband does not have the tools ) and is getting a bit long in he tooth for getting under vam. Had two years of better rides now.

[Guest JudgeMental]

PJay - 2012-09-16 12:06 PM

 

Tracker - 2012-09-16 11:46 AM

 

Having very interestingly diverted by way of PVCs can I return to the original question guys?

 

Does replacing the solid rubber bump stops with semi air suspension on the rear axle improve or worsen the ride of a coachbuilt motorhome please?

 

The PVC vs CB debate will no doubt rumble on but right now if I can improve the ride and payload I am more inclined to stick with a coachbuilt - at least until the dog dies and leaves us a bit more space for us!

YES. We are very pleased with the ride of our Dunlop Air suspension. bought from Marcle and fitted by our local Fiat Dealer (Could be fitted by self, but Husband does not have the tools ) and is getting a bit long in he tooth for getting under vam. Had two years of better rides now.

 

Ah..but have you uprated the chassis capacity to carry more load as tracker intends. if just adding air it helps a bit, and it works OK, especially if a poorly balanced van to begin with.

 

air not a lot of money if you DIY fit, and as long as not expecting a miracle worth a try...

[Tracker]

JudgeMental - 2012-09-16 12:11 PM

Ah..but have you uprated the chassis capacity to carry more load as tracker intends. if just adding air it helps a bit, and it works OK, especially if a poorly balanced van to begin with.

air not a lot of money if you DIY fit, and as long as not expecting a miracle worth a try...

 

More a case of making legal what we already carry than increasing the payload to carry even more!

[Robinhood]

Brian Kirby - 2012-09-15 5:28 PM

 

Our Hobby Van now seems discontinued with the new one quite different and Renault Master based.

 

 

.....given Hobby's long-term relationship with Ford, I was quite surprised at this move.

 

However, the new Ford Transit is due (supposedly) next year, and is described as "all new" (why am I cynical?).

 

Maybe they are having difficulty getting hold of the new base for development, at a time when they are investing in a model upgrade - I wouldn't be surprised to see more Ford-based models back in next year's line-up.

[PJay]

Tracker - 2012-09-16 2:09 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-09-16 12:11 PM

Ah..but have you uprated the chassis capacity to carry more load as tracker intends. if just adding air it helps a bit, and it works OK, especially if a poorly balanced van to begin with.

air not a lot of money if you DIY fit, and as long as not expecting a miracle worth a try...

 

More a case of making legal what we already carry than increasing the payload to carry even more!

Not upgraded chassis, as over 75, and would need medical for driving this. Do not want the bother of this every 3 years.Also we are happy with our van , suits us fine, for space and more than enough cupboards for all the gear, now we have a kindle , which saves taking loads of books for extended stays. IF we ever change would go to a Caravan, for the convienence of having a car to explore in.. As we,ve got older, realise that this our NEXT move.

[rupert123]

Tracker - 2012-09-16 2:09 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-09-16 12:11 PM

Ah..but have you uprated the chassis capacity to carry more load as tracker intends. if just adding air it helps a bit, and it works OK, especially if a poorly balanced van to begin with.

air not a lot of money if you DIY fit, and as long as not expecting a miracle worth a try...

 

More a case of making legal what we already carry than increasing the payload to carry even more!

 

As usual Rich a lot of talk from people with no personal experience of this. It will certainly improve the ride of your van, especially on fast roads where you get overtaken a lot. The real benifit though, to us, was the extra 100kg it gave us on the rear axle, this put us well within our weight limits with the scooter on the back. Personally I would not bother just for the ride improvment, our last two vans, both Swift, where fine without it but we needed the extra axle capacity. Not sure what vans Eddie had before his panel van but as they seemed to be both of poor construction and flimsey, his words, perhaps he should buy British next time. (lol) These kits are pretty easy to fit yourself but get one that you can adjust the air to each side easily. We had an electric pump and it was usefull to be able to level the van on site with the air suspension.