Poor service from dealership

[donna and daz]

Help please, We have an 05 CI Carioca, purchased new from dealership in Newark (not sure whether to name or not!) last year and we have had nothing but problems with things going wrong, I know CI are a budget range entry level vehicle but it's getting beyond a joke. It doesn't help when the dealership doesn't provide a good aftersales service despite 4-5 page adds in MMM claiming the provide the best. The dealership blame CI and CI blame the dealership and in the meantime we are stuck in the middle waiting for parts to arrive and work to be undertaken. Anyone any ideas or thoughts on what to do next? Are CI known for problems/poor aftersales service??? Or is it the dealership?? >:-(

[enrico]

Hi Donna and Daz Sorry to hear about your problems and that they get sorted quickly. The dealership can blame CI all day long,your contract is with the dealer you bought it from so don`t let them fob you off. If you can let me know the following I may be able to help you as I used to be a General Manager of 4 dealerships in the past and am quite well up with the law and motor vehicles. 1) Was the vehicle brand new when you bought it or a secondhand one?The laws are different on each. 2) When did you first complain to the dealer?Was it within 3 weeks of purchase? 3) Did you put it in writing and if so to whom? 4) If you only spoke to someone have you got their name/s along with dates and times spoken? There will no doubt be a lot more I need to know but if you answer the above it`s a good starting point.If you wish to do this more privately look into my pm box and email me directly.Don`t worry I won`t charge you!!!! This may be you now >:-( Perhaps we can get you like this :-)

[chris]

Enrico, Maybe you can help me. We purchased our chausson allegro 83 in April and received the log book within a fortnight. Immediately it was obvious that the weight on the log book was 3800 (not 3850kg) but the Chausson plate states 3500kg. I contacted the dealer and they claim to have contacted Chausson but still no response even though I have phoned every fortnight to check. Also the vehicle was registered April 5th yet Renault insist warranty started last October. Can you help or do I just accept this. No response from dealer again on this. Chris

[david lloyd]

[QUOTE]donna and daz - 2006-07-04 2:26 PM Help please, We have an 05 CI Carioca, purchased new from dealership in Newark (not sure whether to name or not!) last year and we have had nothing but problems with things going wrong, I know CI are a budget range entry level vehicle but it's getting beyond a joke. It doesn't help when the dealership doesn't provide a good aftersales service despite 4-5 page adds in MMM claiming the provide the best. The dealership blame CI and CI blame the dealership and in the meantime we are stuck in the middle waiting for parts to arrive and work to be undertaken. Anyone any ideas or thoughts on what to do next? Are CI known for problems/poor aftersales service??? Or is it the dealership?? >:-([/QUOTE] Donna and Daz Sorry to hear of your problems - what a way to start out on what is supposed to be the most enjoyable freetime pastime (my view). From your description of the dealership I'm sure many of us will recognise who they are - some of us have also had the misfortune to deal with them in the past (but never again!) and would probably lay the blame fairly and squarely at their door. Enrico is quite correct - your contract is with the dealership (even if CI are not doing what they should be doing) and I would take up his generous offer of help given his background. Best of luck and I hope everything works out, regards, david

[Brian Kirby]

If you haven’t already done this, get the full name of the Sales Director and write to him about the faults in the ‘van. Be as brief and to the point as possible, consistent with clarity. In your letter make sure you list out and number off all the defects one at a time, with (as far as possible) the date it arose, when it was notified to the dealer and to whom. If this was in writing, simply refer to your letter to whomever of whatever date. If it was verbal, so far as possible, say to whom, when and how: i.e. by ‘phone or during a visit on whatever date. If there is a slew of minor defects, leave them to the end of the list and roll them up into a single item, but be sure you mention them all. Write in polite, measured terms. Make clear your disappointment and that that you are writing to the director as the responsible person to whom you are looking for remedy. Avoid any threats of what action you may take next, that is for you to know and him to worry about! If the sum of the defects is such that you are unable to use your motorhome, make sure you say this clearly stating when you were last able to do so. Be understanding of their difficulties in dealing with the manufacturer, they are probably real, but make clear that you expect them now to expedite matters and to give you firm dates when each defect will be remedied and to state how long this will take. Acknowledge that the director will be a busy person, so give him, say, 14 days within which you expect to hear from him when the defects will be remedied. This period must be realistic, it is just possible that he may not be aware of the full picture, so he must be given reasonable time to quiz his staff and the manufacturer. Emphasise that this has already caused you considerable inconvenience and that in the interests of minimising your expenses you now want a single appointment when you will take the ‘van back for all of the outstanding defects to be fixed. Express regret that you are having to write to him as the director of a well reputed company, that obviously prides itself on its customer service, to complain of a serious breakdown in that customer service. Try to keep the letter to just 2 pages A4, do remember to date it and make sure your name and address is clearly identifiable. Send the letter first class post, and telephone the director’s PA the following afternoon to check that it has been received. Above all else be nice to the PA, you may need him/her later! Then wait for the response. If, after the 14 days (or whatever you choose) has elapsed you have heard nothing further telephone and insist politely that you speak to the director. When you get to him, remind him that his deadline has passed and ask for a progress report. Take notes and confirm back to him the substance of the conversation. If you feel that he is seeking to fob you off, or you are dissatisfied with his response, say so in your letter in restrained terms and take the copies of all correspondence to Citizen’s Advice or, if you already have one, your solicitor. If the defects have prevented you from using the motorhome, and the dealer has failed reasonably to remedy the faults, and appears unable to do so, you may have grounds for rejecting it as unfit for purpose. However, you will need legal advice before you tread this path. If you have been denied the enjoyment of the goods because they are defective and the dealer has failed to remedy the problem you may be entitled to compensation. Again, however, you will need legal advice. That is why this first letter is so important: it will in effect, become the brief for the solicitor should matters get to that stage. Hopefully they will not, and writing to, and speaking to, the director will get it all sorted out amicably. Above all else, whatever the provocations, keep your temper! The very best of luck to you and I wish you all success.

[enrico]

Chris Question 1 is did you buy the van as brand new or 2nd hand? Question 2 is did you put this in writing? Question 3 is if not in writing to whom did you speak,when(dates are so important),what was said? Question 4 is why does the dealer need to go back to the manufacturer as he should know what he sold you? As stated to someone else should you wish to contact me personally I would be only too pleased to try and assist.

[donna and daz]

Thanks for your offer of help and all the replies most useful, If lots of people know which delership I mean and have had poor service should MMM give booby prizes as well as awards? Just a thought. In answer to your questions we bought the van new in June last year on the way home our table leg fell off and I emailed the sales rep we had dealt with the next day telling him we have fixed it. We then used it for weekends for aprx 30 days last year and noticed the problems with the door/seats but didn't inform them until January, we took it down to see them in the March of this year. We have done some of the communicating via email and phone we have wrote to them yet we have got all the names but not all of the times. Hope this helps: Main problems: 1. Table leg has fallen of numerous times we have fixed it and dealership fixed it in march we know try not to use it as they wont replace it. 2. Door misalighed delership fixed it in march but just made it out at bottom instead of top.(apparently a new A frame or door on order from CI should have arrived in June ??where it is) 3. Cushions frayed front and dinette (again on order should have arrived in June?? where they are) 4. Dinette seat side has fallen off fitted on by dealership but fell off by the time we got home. 5. Fridge lock broken. 6. Door to bathroom opens on traveling. 7. Mould appeared over seats, walls and floor over winter- dealership told us to take all cushions out this year!!! I think this is most of it but it is an approved workshop in Bridlington today for habitation check so I don't know what they will find. Thanks again Donna and Daz

[donna and daz]

Thanks for your reply, most helpful. We will keep you informed as to progress. Donna and daz

[Mel E]

Dear Donna & Daz, I have to say that I was expecting much worse, based on your first posting. We all have different expectations, but I think we have to accept that motorhomes are built from a huge list of bits and pieces, supplied by many different suppliers. But most of these parts are common to all motorhomes whether up or down market. They all have the same Seitz windows, Thetford loos, Smev cookers, door catches, etc. Most spares are available in the UK. As far as I can see from the list, the door and seat covers are the only parts to come from CI, and their problem is probably that they don't make them themselves so are at the mercy of yet more suppliers. So where you've got a real problem - table leg falling off, for example - simply DEMAND rapid replacement. The parts are all UK available, except the table top. All other faults should be capable of rapid rectification. But try to be realistic. The bathroom door probably needs no more than a simple adjustment with a screwdriver - it's a very common problem. Accept that wear and tear will give you these problems as time goes on and so get used to the odd hour of 'fixing' every so often, as most of us do. The dealer is right about the cushions - the problem is caused by condensation during the cold winter and you either heat the motorhome or remove the cushions. I know this doesn't help a lot, but I've seen lists of new motorhome delivery faults way worse than yours. I suggest approaching your dealer to fix them on a 'this isn't going to take you long, so let's agree a time and get them all done together'. As far as the frayed cushions are concerned, check why they are frayed and is the problem likely to infect other cushions? If so, you may well have a case for giving the dealer written notice of a date by which you expect proper, matching replacements, or you will bill him for having replacement covers made (ring Bristol Seat Covers for a quote - not as expensive as you'd expect). Provided you have your facts straight and documentary evidence, the Small Claims Court should uphold you demand for payment iof the dealer refuses - and it costs him but n ot you to claim there.

[Brian Kirby]

From your list I'd say it is odd so many things "fall off" and are "fixed", but then fall off again.  In my book, when something is fixed, it stays fixed.  Do you know why these items fell off?  It may be due to faulty design, or simply to undersized fixings.  If it were me, I'd have a good look at what is failing and why, and then point the dealer in the right direction.  For example, if the table leg comes off because the fixings screw only into thin ply or veneer, putting the same (or even longer) screws back won't cure the problem.  There is an internal reinforced fixing point missing and a new table, with the correct fixing point, is required.  On the other hand, if the fixing point is nice and solid, reinserting the original screws won't be any good at all.  It'll need (ideally) the next size up, and as long as can safely be inserted without breaking through the face.  Possibly also a couple of extra screws if the holes exist in the mounting bracket.

I don't understand about "the door".  Is this the external door to the coachbuilt?  If that was binding on the frame at the top, and the dealer merely packed out the bottom hinge to try to correct it, that might explain why it now binds at the bottom.  However, you might usefully find out exactly what they think is actually causing the problem, and whether they have ordered a new door alone, a new frame alone, or both door and frame.  Then, but really only then, if you still have doubts, they might be asked to explain how they expect the new bits to rectify the problem.  After all, this is your property and you'll surely want to be sure you're be happy with the solution.

Frayed cushions sounds like a fabrication problem that the dealer has accepted liability for, but has to await delivery from CI.  By now, it is likely CI will have changed the fabrics, as all current production will be for 2006 model year colours.  This may be what is causing the delay.  Realistically, you can only continue to press the dealer for evidence that he has ordered these from CI, and for a delivery date from CI.  Dealers do seem rather prepared just to sit back and wait to see what Father Christmas brings, instead of pushing for firm delivery dates.

Broken fridge lock sounds like the Dometic catch.  This should be easily rectified as a revised catch is available from Dometic.  This should be obtainable almost by return of post from Dometic.  They sent me one next day, free, and all I had to do was give them the model and serial number from the fridge.  If the dealer can't get it, get it yourselves and then get the dealer to fit it.  You do have to partially remove the fridge for this, so it is probably best if the dealer does the fitting.

"Door to washroom opens etc" should be no more than a bit of careful adjustment to catch and hinges.  15 minute job for a half competent woodwork student.  No excuses for not fixing this.  They just haven't done it.

Presence of mould, is I'm afraid, rather your responsibility.  They're all rather prone to it, unless kept dry inside and well ventilated.  Removing, or at least upending, all upholstery during the winter is good practice, since much of the moisture is absorbed by these items and they can then air off better.  A bit of heat in the 'van during the winter will help, or a cheap de-humidifier, but for either of these you must have mains power available. 

If the mould is concentrated in one area of the 'van, however, it might indicate a leak.  Has the dealer carried out a moisture check, or is this being done during your habitation service?  If not, I would suggest you get this done.

My only other comment is that you may not have given the dealer the impression that you regarded these things as urgent.  You say you didn't notify them of the defects until January, or take the 'van back until March.  This doesn't excuse a lazy response from the dealer, but the factories are going hammer and tongs to produce the new model year variants from about October on, so by the time they finally got your orders they were probably at full stretch trying to clear backlogged orders.  Of course, you should have been given priority, but in reality...........

Hope the above is of some help and the best of luck.  From what you say you'll get there in the end, but the wait must be frustrating.  Final thought, have you checked your warranty?  I suspect everything except the base vehicle (Fiat?) is now out of warranty: most of the equipment and the conversions have only 12 months from date of purchase.

[enrico]

Donna and Daz With due respect to some of the replies(which I`m sure are well intentioned) you have a vehicle which you purchased brand new in June 05 that is not fit for the purpose it was bought for, eg. table leg falling off on your way home from collecting it.The other points I will not comment on as the background you have provided does not go into specifics. You said you emailed the dealer the following day explaining what had happened.If you still have that email or a copy of it you should immediately send a letter to the General Manager of the site enclosing this copy along with a letter telling them what you have told us.Under no circumstances should you send this 1st class but by registered mail(proof of postage and signature of recipient).Do not send by recorded delivery either. It`s entirely upto you how far you wish to progress this but you have a strong case on this 1 item alone.However you state the vehicle is now with another garage for a habitation check and it now depends on what you`ve asked this garage to do,just check or fix the problems. Only you know that so good luck and keep us posted.

[Brian Kirby]

Chris

You seem to have been left out on this.  Has Enrico saddled his charger on your behalf and won the day, or are you still where you were?

If nothing has yet changed, I suggest you check your copy of your order, to see what max weight vehicle you actually contracted to buy.  I assume from your post that you were expecting 3850kg?  If the order is wrong, but you signed it and accepted the vehicle then, unless you can otherwise prove that is an error, you may be stuck with it.  If you wrote to the dealer with your requirements stating you wanted a 3850kg chassis, and the order was in confirmation of your letter, then you may have a case, but I'm not a lawyer.  

Next, have a look at the Renault VIN plate - probably somewhere under the bonnet (Mel E will know where on a Renault Master if he picks up on this).  That will tell you the Renault designated permissible overall, front and rear axle loadings.  If the Renault plate says 3,800kg then the Chausson plate is almost certainly wrong, but at least the V5C registration document is correct.

The information in the V5C will have been provided by the dealer, based upon information contained in the your 'van's EEC Type Approval Certificate.  If your dealer didn't give you this, or a copy, ask him for one. 

This will state at item 0.6 your vehicle's chassis No or VIN: first check this carefully to make sure it relates to your 'van.

Assuming it does, item 12.1 will give the 'van's unladen mass, item 14.1 its MTPLM, item 14.2 its axle loads when at that mass and item 14.3 the maximum permissible load on each of its axles.  (It is possible 14.2 may not have been completed, but all the others all should have been.)

If item 14.1 does not correspond with the MTPLM written on your order, the van supplied to you is not what you ordered.  This may be a monumental cock up by the dealer, so you'll need to ask him what he proposes to do (for example someone else may have yours!).  If his proposal is less than complete replacement of the 'van with one that corresponds with your order, and he won't budge, take legal advice, but I think you can hand it right back to him and demand a full refund, including all your subsequent out of pocket expenses (which should also include the cost of the legal advice). 

If item 14.1 corresponds with the order, but not with the V5C, someone has made a mistake on the V5C and it, and the Chausson plate need correcting.  I think the dealer will have to do the V5C as he supplied the original information.  However, only Chausson can replace the plate (via the dealer).  It would be worth checking, but provided you have your copy Type Approval cert and can point to the Renault plate plus some correspondence with the dealer about the Chausson error, I doubt the police would "do" you for being overloaded if you exceed the Chausson plate limit.

If 14.1 says 3,800kg the V5C is correct, the Chausson plate is wrong, and you almost have the 'van you ordered.  Whether you can still reject the 'van as not complying with your order where the error is 50kg in 3800 I couldn't say, but doubtless a solicitor could.  If the reduced rear axle load - I would expect it to be the rear axle - would prevent you carrying your full complement, scooter or whatever, then the error, although small, would be critical and I guess you could reject.  If the loss is of little practical consequence the dealer has still not met your requirement and, if he has any sense, he'll offer you (perhaps after a bit of arm twisting) something nice to go away.

Re the warranty, if Renault's database says October, that is almost certainly when they delivered the chassis to Chausson.  When he registered the vehicle, your dealer should have provided details of that registration to Renault, for them to update the database to the date of registration.  He may have done this and Renault may have slipped up, or the dealer may have failed to provide the info to Renault.  If the dealer has a copy of the notification, ask him to check with Renault what they've done with it.  If he won't co-operate, Renault should be prepared to update their database upon receipt of a copy of the V5C, which shows the VIN and the date the vehicle entered into circulation.

Hope this helps

[chris]

Brian Thanks for your info. Off to work now so will digest info tonight. Great help Chris

[enrico]

Chris Brian is quite right in what he says but before you get into any discussions with anyone check the plate on the motorhome with whats on the V5C.If that is different then YOU can write back the the DVLC(Driving and vehicle licensing centre) informing them what the correct weight should be.Enclose the V5C with your letter and it would not go amiss if you sent a photograph along with them clearly showing the vehicles VIN corresponds with whats on the V5C.Above all else keep copies of ALL correspondence. Good luck and hope it works out to your satisfaction,after all you have parted with the monies,the dealer is now counting HIS pennies and possible profit. Don`t forget to sort the warranty out with the dealer as the warranty should kick in when the vehicle is first taxed unless of course it was an import.Please don`t say that all these motorhomes are an import. What I actually mean by that is if your dealer purchased from another dealer in Europe and not the manufacturer many months ago then the warranty starts the second the wheels touch the ground in the UK. It`s certainly worth looking into. Fingers crossed Enrico

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]enrico - 2006-07-06 3:40 PM What I actually mean by that is if your dealer purchased from another dealer in Europe and not the manufacturer many months ago then the warranty starts the second the wheels touch the ground in the UK. It`s certainly worth looking into. Fingers crossed Enrico[/QUOTE]

Enrico

Is that the case?  Surely the warranty should commence from when the vehicle is registered in one or other country.  If a UK dealer buys from a non UK dealer, and the vehicle is transported to UK without being registered either end, why should that be treated any differently for warranty purposes than UK dealers trading stock among themselves?  Car dealers do this quite frequently, and warrantys only commence when some poor punter actually buys the vehicle and it gets registered!

[Guest peter]

Join the club. It could have been worse and you could have gone to White Arches in Wellingborough Northant's where I was sold a Hymer Camp as a Year 2000 and it turned out to be a 1994 model. Even when I rejected it they still tried to swindle me out of about £2000+. It took a Solicitors letter with the threat of court proceedings to get my money back. It worked a treat, they couldn't get the Bank Draft to me quick enough. Just because you go to a so called reputable dealer it doesn't mean you won't occasionally get caught out. Treat the transaction as you would a secondhand car, be very wary. With the high price and popularity of this form of camping loads of Arthur Daley types are jumping on the bandwagon, to make a quick profit out of the gullible and too trusting types. Go over any purchase with a fine tooth comb and read the small print on the contract. You have been warned.

[enrico]

Brian What should happen unfortunately doesn`t always happen.What I`ve stated is what actually happens.With regards to the car scenario it is identical to the above. If I went to another country to buy a car,imported it and didn`t sell it for 3 months,the warranty would have 3 months less to run.Believe me this is true.This was one of my jobs for 20 years. Enrico

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Enrico.  Hope you didn't mind me asking.

Regards

[chris]

Thanks Brian and Enrico As I said I have been digesting your information. To keep it brief these are the main points:_ V5C(W) indicates correct vin and engine no. and revenue weight is 3800kg. Trigano(Chausson ) plate states 3500kg. Cannot for the life of me find the Renault plate in the engine.......Help from Mel E requested please. It is 3 litre Renault. DVLC first taxed our van as Private LGV then sent a letter appologising and a new tax disc classing the van as Private HGV. So they obviously class it at the heavier weight. Enrico...van bought new from British dealer who received it direct from Chausson factory. The van had been at the dealers since February and it was not a special order. Current brochure for 2006 model states 38500kg weight. Brian......I wil contact dealer and ask for the van's EEC type approval Certificate as we were not given this. Put deposit down on vehicle in March and picked it up after DVLA registered it on April 5th. We put nothing in writing about the weight of the van as we assumed the details were as the brochure stipulated. All we ordered was a Chausson Allegro 83 on Renault Master base. 06 model. Until we get the EEC certificate Brian we will not be able to check your other information. On the Warranty side I phoned Renault just after we bought it so it could be worth checking with them again in case registration has changed. Trouble is I am really pleased with van, its just these annoying beureucratic items that are not sorted out. We are going to France/Germany/ Belgium (wherever the sun is) in fortnight for 5 weeks so cant see this being sorted so I assume we drive van as 3500kg weight and rules and keep payload down to 400kg but if they ask to see our logbook we are 3850kg which means we have to stick to different speed limits etc. Confused but getting there slowly. Thanks for your very helpful information. Will get back to you if progress made. Chris Chris

[Brian Kirby]

Chris

If the dealer has had it since Feb, it might be worth just confirming it is a 2006 model and not a "remaindered" 2005 one.

Problem with the brochures is there's nearly always a little note somewhere that says "nothing contained herein is contractual", or words to that effect.

However, if the descrepancy is a great as 300 - 350kg, then it seems to me that would fall into a different category.  If it had said 3850 and you'd got 3800, they might be able to argue that was minor, I don't really think that should apply in your case.

I suspect the Chausson plate is just wrong and, because DVLA have already got the V5C wrong once, I wouldn't mind betting the correct figure is 3850 and the 50 has got left off second time around.  However, unless the 'van is on a Al-Ko chassis, the Renault plate will be definitive since that states what loading the chassis was built to. 

If it is on the Renault chassis, you might save yourself a bit of time by giving the chassis number to Renault, they should be able to tell what the chassis rating is from their records.  Get the axle loadings at the same time, useful to know although it will be on the plate when you find it. 

The Renault master handbook should tell you where to find the VIN.

Hope this helps

[enrico]

Brian Why should I mind.You obviously only want to get the facts straight in your mind.You`ve come up with some useful information for both parties.There`s no real secret to any of this,it`s just that on occasions the law doesn`t always go the way you expect it to. It`s been good having the discussion with you.The one thing that has come out of all this is never rely on the telephone,a verbal contract is so hard to prove.Always put it in writing immediately,keeping a copy for yourself and remember time is of the essence.This is how the law judges it.TIME (!) (!) (!) enrico

[enrico]

Chris 2 things about this.The first one is very personal to yourself so I certainly wouldn`t expect you to respond. If you purchased the motorhome on a finance agreement then in legal terms the m/h is the property of the finance company so they would want to protect their rights and property.In this case put the ball fairly and squarely on their shoulders.You have then been seen to have been a caring customer. If you purchased outright then put ALL the emphasis back onto the dealers shoulders.It is their responsibility to get it right.Don`t forget to put it in writing,keeping a copy for yourself and send it by registered post.This does cost more but gives you more legal rights in the unlikely event of them doing nothing or very little about it. This is for the warranty as well as the V5C. Good luck and take the stress off yourselves and put it onto someone elses shoulders. Enrico :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

[Brian Kirby]

Chris

For what it's worth I have checked the 2006 Chausson Allegro range in a French magazine (Le Monde du Camping Car) and on the Chausson website.  The quoted PTAC (French for MTPLM) for the whole Allegro range, in both places, is 3,500kg. 

The English version of the technical catalogue was "unobtainable" (possibly interesting!) so I could only download it in French (so not guaranteed to equate exactly to the RHD UK versions), but this clearly states 3,500kg for all of the 2006 Allegros.  There is no 3,850kg optional chassis upgrade on the French market.

Hope you still have a copy of your English brochure showing 3,850kg!  Unless the chassis ratings for the UK market do differ from those for the French market, which is possible, it seems there may be an error in the brochure (which may explain its disappearance from the Chausson site). 

Since you relied upon the brochure description in buying, it seems you don't have the 'van you thought you were getting. 

Quite where that leaves you legally I'm not sure.  The brochure is bound to contain the contractual disclaimer, but the dealer should have pointed out to you the error, or made a manuscript correction, before providing it.  (Probability is, he didn't know, but I don't think he can defend himself on that ground.)

Couldn't find a UK telephone No for Chausson, but there is a UK 'phone No for Trigano, who make Chausson, at Grimsby: 10472 571075.  Website www.triganomotorhomes.co.uk  Seems they also own Auto Trail, who live at the same address: 01472 571001.

In view of your imminent departure on holiday with the 'van, you should possibly contact them post haste to verify if the UK chassis rating is, indeed, 3,850kg, or if there is a UK option for this rating. 

If they confirm 3,500kg is what you have, you may need to contact Trading Standards or Citizens Advice (or your solicitor if you already have one) for advice on where, exactly, you stand.  It may be that you shouldn't go away with the 'van, as that might prejudice your ability to reject it.  It all depends on the legal advice you receive.

I'm truly sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings, and I sincerely hope I'm wrong!  What rotten luck to have to try to sort all this out on the eve of your departure.

I suppose the less fraught route may be to load the 'van and take it to the nearest weighbridge.  Get the weights on both axles and the overall (they should be able to weigh first the whole vehicle (A), then just the rear axle (B), and then give you an A, B, and A-B ticket, rather as though you'd delivered bulk goods).  Then you'll know how important that extra 350kg really is for you.  If you can live within the resulting margin perhaps accept what you have, go on holiday happy, and just forget about it!  If you find the existing chassis really won't work for you, at least you'll then have the proof, rather than merely having to assert that is the case.

Enrico's right in principle about throwing it all at the dealer, but if he drags his feet you'll be left in an impossible position.  I'd say definitely throw it at him, that's where it belongs, but don't leave it to him to come up with the answers to suit your timescales.  In my experience, if you want something resolved quick, you have to make the running!

With further apologies

[david lloyd]

Hi Chris Firstly, my new Knaus Sun Ti has the plate on the drivers side (RHD) door pillar just beneath the door catch. There are two plates. The Renault one and the Knaus one just above it. In my case we wanted a 3500kg chassis and both plates confirm this plus the axle loadings. Second, we also contemplated the Chausson Allegro and I can confirm that the brochure clearly shows it being on the 3850kg chassis. It seems as though the 3500kg option is not available for the UK market and that is one of the reasons we eliominated it from our choices earlier this year. If you do not still have your brochure then you are more than welcome to mine. Hope this helps and you can soon get back to just thinking about using the Allegro instead of worrying about it. Best regards, david

[chris]

Brian Just to confirm that I have the 2005 and 2006 brochure and our van is a 2006 model as many of the specs have changed from the previous year. It was delivered direct to the dealer in Feb and we viewed it within one month. As you say the brochure is not the evidence but the specs. state it is 3850KG. It must be an alko chasis as I cannot find a Renault plate anywhere. It seems Chauson have not put the correct plate on. Enrico, No finance on the van so its up to us to sort this out. I wrote to the dealer via e-mail Friday and received a personal reply confirming that my letter was being passed to the manager. I requested a copy or original EEC Type Approval Certificate and an update on progress on warranty and plating. Its Monday and no reply yet! I rang Renault cars to confirm warranty date and they still have it as October and not April. It seems that we may have lost out on 6 months warranty here as they say they can do nothing. They have very little info on our vehicle as it is "imported". They said to contact Renault trucks but they had nothing on our vehicle (as I expected) so we have to deal with Renault cars. All this is frustrating but it is not stopping us using the van. We are on the ferry in a fortnight and we will just abide by the rules of 3850kg whilst driving but I have yet to hear of anyone being checked for all this when abroad. Will just have to act dumb I suppose if we get stopped? The Renault Master is a great drive compared to our Fiat ducatto but I wish they would sort this warranty problem out as we never had any trouble from Fiat when we had ours and that included breakdown cover too which Renault don't. We have no real problem of being 3500 or 3850kg , we just want the plate and document to tally so will persevere with our dealer. Unfortunately Chausson have not replied to my e-mails either! Thanks for the offer of the brochure David and as you state we are using the van rather than worrying about it. The only worry I have now is I have another fortnight to work before catching the ferry to France. Thanks for all the help and if I hear anything I will update you.