Poor service from dealership

[Guest starspirit]

I've had 'vans for many years and as I have only ever had secondhand vans, mainly Auto Sleeper, currently Auto Cruise, I've been lucky enough to never have any problems. A few silly niggles maybe but the dealers have always sorted them quickly. Perhaps it's because both of these manufacturers take customer satisfaction seriously with first class factory advice and spares support. I've used Don Amott, West Country Motorhomes, Alan Kerr and Marquis Plymouth in recent years with no problems, but no real test either. Never bought from Newark as in spite of having been there several times I could never get a decent deal and I sure as hector won't be going there again!

[Brian Kirby]

Chris

Even if on an Al-Ko chassis, which I doubt, there will still be a Renault plate.  There will also be an Al-Ko plate, which should be near the Renault one, plus the Chausson one.  Each must add their plate/serial No as completion of the vehicle progresses through their hands.

If you have your warranty booklet, what date does that give as the date the warranty commenced?  It should state the operative date, or refer to a specific event as the starting point, for example registration, for your information, as well as stating the duration and conditions.

Regards

[chris]

Brian, Double checked the brochure and it states it is a Renault Master RHD Dci 3.0L 136HP platform chasis long. I have no warranty documents but a French "carnet d'entretien" booklet from Renault and when I phoned they said I only needed the vin number and all records are on computer. The vin number is stamped on front but everything is in French and nothing has been stamped inside. I asked renault cars for English version of service/warranty booklet and they said they do not have them even though I managed to get a Renault manual off them in English instead of French? I think I will have to write to them rather than speak over the phone. Chris

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]chris - 2006-07-10 11:17 PM Brian, Double checked the brochure and it states it is a Renault Master RHD Dci 3.0L 136HP platform chasis long. I have no warranty documents but a French "carnet d'entretien" booklet from Renault and when I phoned they said I only needed the vin number and all records are on computer. The vin number is stamped on front but everything is in French and nothing has been stamped inside. I asked renault cars for English version of service/warranty booklet and they said they do not have them even though I managed to get a Renault manual off them in English instead of French? I think I will have to write to them rather than speak over the phone. Chris[/QUOTE]

Chris

I checked MMM's list of imported motorhomes on the Renault Master base.  There are only a handful of converters showing MTPLMs above 3,500kg.  One being Chausson, who uniquely claim 3,850kg and the others being Dethleffs, who have four models listed at 3,900kg and Auto Trail who list one at 3,800kg.  The technical details for the Dethleffs, the 2006 edition of which I have in French only, however, lists all their models with a standard MTPLM of 3,500kg, but with an option to raise this to 3,900kg.

I therefore 'phoned Renault Trucks (01582 471122) and spoke to a Mr David Bousted, who advised that all versions of the Master come from the same factory and that there is no technical difference between those sold through the Trucks network or the Cars network.  The standard max MTPLM of the heaviest version of chassis cab or platform cab is 3,500kg.  (He added that Trucks UK do supply, for mini bus or ambulance conversions, chassis uprated to 3,900kg, although they have never supplied to this rating, in UK, for motorhome conversion.)  However, he said there is no real difference in the chassis, just a re-plating to allow the higher loading where the loading characteristics of the completed vehicle can be determined.  I assume Dethleffs take advantage of this facility in Germany.  He added that the RHD and LHD chassis do not vary in this respect.

He also said that the VIN plate you are seeking is on the slam side of the driver's door frame, effectively the "B" pillar, at about chest height.  It is co-located with the famous Renault oval plate, and will state the axle loads, MTPLM and gross train weight for the vehicle.  It is a stick on plastics plate.  The weights should be set out vertically in the following order: at the top the MTPLM, next the Gross Train Weight (i.e. total permissible weight of laden 'van plus any trailer), then the max load on front axle and finally, at the bottom, the max load on rear axle.  Easy to recognise these as they should be the only numbers with "Kg" following them.

If in further doubt, phone Renault trucks as above, Mr Bousted was very helpful, or 'phone a Mr Keith Burman on 01582 479227, who is their technical guru.

However, based on what I was told, I think your van is on a 3,500kg chassis and, therefore, you do not have what you thought you were buying.

Regards

[chas]

BROWNHILLS< BROWNHILLS< BROWNHILLS< BROWNHILLS, there I feel better now, best to get it off your chest, chas

[michele]

Did I read BROWNHILLS//////////////////////////////////////////?

[enrico]

Chris I`m corcerned when you use the word imported. Go back to BROWNHILLS via email and get the MD`s name and email address.Put the onus back onto him.Explain about all your problems and that you are going away within 10 days and you want everything resolved before then.Don`t take any excuse for an answer. You also want the warranty shortage sorting out and what form of compensation are they going to offer you but you would not be prepared to take the vehicle back to them unless it was a brand new replacement(FOC) or they had to replate the vehicle. Express how disgusted you are with the lack of service from that garage and if you don`t get a satisfactory conclusion to the whole matter you will consult with the Trading Standards Agency.Don`t use a solicitor as 99% of who I`ve come across only want your money.I was pleased whenever I had a problem(which unfortunately we all do)if a solicitor was involved as they lost 100% of their cases to me.Trading Standards is different. Good Luck :-) :-)

[michele]

chris would be interesting if you also posted the MD 's name for everyone else to use . well the people that need it anyway happy hunting I hope you get it all sorted.

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]enrico - 2006-07-11 3:07 PM Chris I`m corcerned when you use the word imported. Go back to BROWNHILLS via email and get the MD`s name and email address.Put the onus back onto him.Explain about all your problems and that you are going away within 10 days and you want everything resolved before then.Don`t take any excuse for an answer. You also want the warranty shortage sorting out and what form of compensation are they going to offer you but you would not be prepared to take the vehicle back to them unless it was a brand new replacement(FOC) or they had to replate the vehicle. Express how disgusted you are with the lack of service from that garage and if you don`t get a satisfactory conclusion to the whole matter you will consult with the Trading Standards Agency.Don`t use a solicitor as 99% of who I`ve come across only want your money.I was pleased whenever I had a problem(which unfortunately we all do)if a solicitor was involved as they lost 100% of their cases to me.Trading Standards is different. Good Luck :-) :-)[/QUOTE]

Enrico

I think the Chris's target may be Barrons, not Brownhills.  I don't think Brownhills do Chausson.  

Chris will have to decide, but although he may have to get heavy, I think he should try the softer touch first, and just try speaking to the guy.

If you go nuclear too early, you've declared everything in your hand, and have nothing left but bluster if they say boo to your goose!  I think, keep your possible remedies to yourself, until you have to use them: they're for you to know and the opposition to worry about. 

After all, what Chris really needs from the dealer, is willing co-operation and a sense of urgency, and I'm a bit concerned that if he goes on the attack too quickly, they'll just into their bunker with their solicitor and begin preparing their legal defence, rather than cooperating to try to keep a customer on board. 

I think he'd be better off sobbing down the phone than threatening extreme action!

Regards

[chris]

It is not Brownhills or Barrons but a very small dealer who I must admit has a very laid back approach to most things but, as we are on our second new van from them and, they give better deals than anyone else, I prefer to go via Brians easy approach. Our after sales service is always good so can't complain about that but paperwork is not their best point. I will phone them yet again tomorrow with the latest information and I think I had better enlighten you that Chris is short for Christine! Sorry fellas. The Renault plate has now been located and it is 3500kg. I think its going to be a darn site easier to contact DVLA to change it to 3500 in the long run too.? Thanks for the effort in the phonecalls Brian, I will follow these up now. Very interesting that Chausson claim 3850kg! I think Chausson have just left the correct plate off and they are the ones who should be arranging the replating for us. It would be interesting to see what other Allegros are plated at? Enrico, I will be speaking to my dealer on the phone again tomorrow but I will insist on speaking (sobbing) to him rather than the secretary who says that they have contacted Chausson several times and will get back to me. As I mentioned, we have no objection to it being 3500kg but we cant understand how DVLA passed it when they did their registration checks as they should have looked at the plating. The warranty issue is going to be an ongoing process that I hope the dealer will sort out too. Will update soon. Thanks Chris(tine)

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]chris - 2006-07-11 6:19 PM ..............I had better enlighten you that Chris is short for Christine! Sorry fellas. The Renault plate has now been located and it is 3500kg. I think its going to be a darn site easier to contact DVLA to change it to 3500 in the long run too.? Thanks for the effort in the phonecalls Brian, I will follow these up now. Very interesting that Chausson claim 3850kg! I think Chausson have just left the correct plate off and they are the ones who should be arranging the replating for us. It would be interesting to see what other Allegros are plated at? Enrico, I will be speaking to my dealer on the phone again tomorrow but I will insist on speaking (sobbing) to him rather than the secretary who says that they have contacted Chausson several times and will get back to me. As I mentioned, we have no objection to it being 3500kg but we cant understand how DVLA passed it when they did their registration checks as they should have looked at the plating. The warranty issue is going to be an ongoing process that I hope the dealer will sort out too. Will update soon. Thanks Chris(tine)[/QUOTE]

Oops, sorry Christene!

However, it seems you are now all square.  Renault plate agrees with Chausson plate, so the 'van is max 3,500kg.  I would still suggest you find a weighbridge locally, load it and get the weights as I suggested above.  Pay particular to the individual axle loads, though, as you're much more likely to find you've overdone one end or the other, than the whole shebang.  Then you'll know for certain if the loss in payload is going to be restricting.  According to the French website the 83 has a payload of 425kg: that will have been reduced by any options you have added (awning etc) and looks a bit "thin" to me.  The question is, would you have bought it if you'd known that from the start?

Re registration, I don't understand about the re-plating.  It is not likely to be possible to re-plate the vehicle to anything above 3,500kg.  The DVLA don't actually go near the vehicle: all the info is supplied by the dealer, on paper (or even if he's linked in, on line).  He should copy the relevant details from the type approval cert but, unless that document is wrong (which would be rather surprising), I think he's just been as careless with his copying as he is lax in dealing with your pleas for information.  It rather looks as though he's just taken the weights from the catalogue rather than the cert, though lord knows where he got the emissions data and the VIN/engine No!

Re the warranty, I think this is just someone in Renault cars being thick (not unknown).  I don't think the fact that the vehicle is imported matters a jot.  Just ask them how many Renaults are made in UK, and when their car warrantys start in relationship to manufacture.  Until the vehicle is registered the warranty lies dormant.  It is the dealer's job to ensure the correct information goes to the correct department at Renault.  Given his record to date, this seems the probable place the breakdown has arisen.

Once Renault get a copy of the V5C through the proper channel, the commencement date for the warranty should be reset.  All you're being told by them at the moment is what their current record of the vehicle shows, which is probably when it left the factory.  Try to get to someone a bit more senior.

The last possibility is that you have been talking to Renault Cars, who are failing to tell you that your Master actually belongs with Renault Trucks, who, confusingly, are no longer part of Renault (or vice versa).  However, all that means is that you may need to talk to the other "Renault" instead!

Regards

Brian

[enrico]

Chris Always preferred talking to a female rather than a male anyway.Good Luck whichever way you choose.Wish I had you as a customer,not much aggro. The only reason I suggested what I did is you said you where pushed for time because of holidays and I got the distinct impression you wanted it sorted quickly otherwise I would have gone with the softly softly approach first. Good Luck anyway. :-) :-) :-)

[chris]

Special thanks to Enrico and Brian Phoned Trigano today but they do not do Chausson but said that they take 3500kg and if they go heavier then they have to be plated with the vin number and the heavier weight included. He seemed to think this has not been done by Chausson. Spoke to the dealers secretary today and I was greatly reasured by her that even though the dealer was out of the country on business he has tried contacting Chausson on several occasions but no reply. As it is a small family business they have not let me down before and I was reasured again by the secretary that he hadn't been in touch as he has heard nothing himself. Had quite a long conversation so I feel reasured that we are not being overlooked so whatever happens I will keep on but we relaxing now and planning our trip to France at the end of next week and we will not worry about the weight issue but we will abide with speedlimits etc. just incase. When I hear anything I will get back to you because you have both been most helpful. Don't worry, I won't give up on the warranty or the weight. I also appologise to Donna and Daz for hijacking your posting and I hope your problems get sorted too. Look out France, here we come. Don't ask where we are going as we just follow the sun for 5 weeks and stay on aires and the occasional campsite. That is the beauty of motorhoming, the freedom. Thanks Chris

[michele]

christine I hope you a wonderful relaxing holiday enjoy it all as you say that's the beauty of as the french say la camping car bon voyage. regards Michele

[Brian Kirby]

Christene

Whatever you do, go to a weighbridge with the fully laden van before you leave for France.

Your payload margin @425kg, looks quite slender for a 5 seat 4 berth motorhome.

Ours is a 2 berth with a payload margin of 675kg.  Loaded, we have between 135kg and 85kg to spare, and I don't reckon we carry half the stuff I see others dragging from their 'vans!  Your payload would be too low for us.

It is very unlikely that you will get "pulled" in France but, if you are put through a roadside weight check, I hear the French police simply a) fine you and b) make you unload goods until you are legal.  The unloaded goods then have to be abandoned at the roadside: what else can you do?

However, whatever you do decide, have fun!

[enrico]

Chris(sorry Christine) Thanks for those kind words.You just enjoy and relax and forget all us silly b****** you`ve left behind. ENJOY B-) B-) B-) B-)

[donna and daz]

Just a quick update, we were so fed up by this Newark company and our problems that on Sunday at Driffield show we happened to be chatting to Danum about CI, when he told me the UK sales manager was with them, so we took the opportunity and let rip! He couldn't have been more helpful, phoned him this week suprise, suprise the door has been delivered to Newark back in May, despite them saying it's not there every week when I speak to them. CI have now offered that we can take the van back to them and they will sort everything. Early days to be happy but we are getting there. Donna and Daz

[michele]

Good For You let RIP Girl ............................

[enrico]

Donna and Daz So pleased for you but what a lot of aggro but at least you know what to tell all your friends who m/h. Don`t use that bunch in Newark. With a bit of luck they could rue the day they let you down.....SO BADLY. (?) (?) (?)

[Burstner620]

[QUOTE]chris - . . . the vehicle was registered April 5th yet Renault insist warranty started last October. Can you help or do I just accept this. Chris[/QUOTE] No ! Contact Renault UK Customer Services (address & phone number below) I had the same problem with my new (imported) Weinsberg. They were very good, asked for a copy of the V5 to resolve the matter. Renault UK Customer Services The Rivers Office Park Denham Way Maple Cross Herts WD3 9YS Tel : 0800 072 3372

[michele]

Amazing how a HEADER GETS LOOKED AT BE CAREFUL OUT THERE YOU BIG COMPANIES>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[chris]

Hi all We are back from France and ready to start again. Thanks to Ian for his posting which unfortunately came after our departure. Whilst returning and spending a night at Dunkerque at Marlo les Baines a gentleman approached us as fellow Brits and we got talking. To cut it short it turned out to be Ian which was quite a coincidence. Becauses of his information we are now writing direct to Renault with a copy of our registration document. On the plating side there is still no news but we have been to a weighbridge and with only the driver, full of water and diesel, half volume gas and some clothes and food onboard, the van weighed 3640kg which now makes it even more important to get this sorted. I have just written another letter with a copy of the weighbridge form and have insisted on a new plate for the van. Will keep you informed as promised. PS The Renault Master is a brilliant van to drive as we had to cut our hols short to return home quickly from South France and it drove so well my husband did not want to leave the driving seat (Except when we got onto the british motorways of course!) It is now averaging 24 to 27 mpg after 4000miles. Thanks Ian. Will keep you informed. Hope your hols went well. Chris

[whoami]

This is my first time putting anything on this site and I did so because a lot of motorhomers need to be passing the blame to the correct people. I had a problem with a door on my motorhome (a Lunar Chump) a new door was ordered by a motorhome company from Newark. Right I can allready hear sounds of here we go again, but you could not be more wrong. I ordered the door and waited for a call to say it was in after a few weeks and a few more phone calls the door was not in. I decided to travel to Newark as I live close by and went to the parts. I was ready to scream and shout but was met by a person that seemed to care about the customer, he listened to my complaints then he let me see how many emails they had sent on my behalf to Lunar (a large amount)and then he let me see the replies (not very many) he explained that they have people trying to get parts but sometimes have to wait weeks for any answer. he called Lunar while I waited and they informed him they would call him back, I was there for more than two hours they did not call back. After much phone calling from Brownhills he did manage to aquire a door for me, but if this is what is happening to my one part what pressure does this put on the parts team. I know we buy the motorhome from Brownhills but have you ever thought that the problem lies somewhere else. It is the supplier that has no customer care when you have purchased the vehicle not the dealer. I am now sorted because of Brownhills parts department and have found a couple of guys that really care. If you really have a problem getting parts from Newark ask for Ron or Andy. ;-) ;-)

[david lloyd]

Hi chris and welcome home. I know earlier on (before you went away) you were saying you would be happy to have the van plated at 3500kg if necessary - you just wanted it sorted. However, with the weights you have confirmed on the weighbridge there can be no way you can accept a 3500kg plating now. You will never be able to get your loading down below 3500kg so it is imperative that the dealership and Chausson either agree it is a 3850 kg chassis and issue the new plate OR you may have to get them to take the vehicle back as not what you ordered. I checked my brochure again and it is definitely quoting the Allegro as being a 3850kg Renault Platform Chassis so Chausson must have the 'standard' 3500kg chassis uprated in the same way as Dethleffs do. It's a shame you have to come back from what sounds like a great holiday to this again but good luck with it. Regards, david

[chris]

David, I think Whaomi is half right in what the dealers resonse is from the manufacturer. I was contacted by someone with a Chausson Allegro and he dealt direct with Chausson and he said it was useless. He finally ordered from a dealer but as he said, Chausson are not the best to reply as I have also found out. On the other hand Renault have replied promptly to my e-mails. Will wait and see response. Chris