Do you drain your waste tank as you go along?

[Brian Kirby]

A measured reply from Derek. Consider. I once had to ask a horse rider to remove herself and horse from private land over which there was no right of way. Her reply was to ask where else she was supposed to exercise her horse, as the surrounding lanes were narrow, and the traffic relatively heavy. When I pointed out that she should have taken that into account before buying the horse, she got cross and rode off - towards the exit!

 

Not an exact parallel, but anyone using a van in the UK has an abundance of places where grey waste can easily be discharged without causing offence to anyone else. Most are on camp-sites, which they presumably have to visit from time to time to properly dispose of toilet waste and take on water. It is disagreeable to many that they have to pay to use these facilities, but that, for now, is mostly how the UK is. Why should motorhome users expected that to be changed to suit their desire for free services?

 

Even in France, use of many of the aires de services is chargeable, and France has far less demand placed on its land use than the UK.

[kelly58]

What I find strange whilst in France is that you may have seen for yourself the guys who just urinate anywhere they seem fit even in car parks , and the dog owners who let their dogs do their business where ever they like . I have also seen where toilet waste tanks have been emptied on waste water drains leaving deposits that would not go through the grills , but if your waste outlet is dripping say whilst you are parked on an Aire they soon let you know it is wrong,

[Mike88]

crinklystarfish - 2012-11-07 9:19 AM

Mike88 - 2012-11-06 2:59 PMDraining your tank while on the move constitutes an unlawful deposit of waste under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. Those who do it give motorhomers a bad name.

Does it? Controlled waste? May take some proving. Imagine someone cycle touring who stops for a brew and a sandwich; are we really saying that when they swill their cup out and rinse their crumb-ladened camping-saucer that they are depositing controlled waste on land? Plus there is at least one specific exemption within the spirit of the legislation covering  "any deposits which are small enough or of such a temporary nature that they may be so excluded"

Not sure the EA or other competent authorities will be rushing to prosecute unless there are obvious exacerbating factors. I agree that some may perceive it as anti-social though, which is reason enough to be discreet.

The Act does not define "small deposits" as that would be a matter for the Courts if a prosecution was brought. You are right in saying that any such deposit are unlikely to be actionable as it would in most circumstances require the Environment Agency to actually witness such a deposit and that would be unlikely but that does not negate the fact that a deposit of waste on land is an unlawful activity and potentially actionable.However if such a deposit were to cause an accident - shampoo and soap deposits can be slippery - then the authorities could take action.

[the crumblies]

Going back to the point above about waste tank overflow, when I bought my current MH, the waste tank overflow was situated about 2/3 up the side of the tank. So, on site, the tank would leak waste water as soon as it got 2/3 full, and if you set off with more than half a tank, it would slosh about and spill onto the road. I believe this is the problem with most of the slimies, and come on, we've all seen them. To fix the problem I added a pipe to the overflow outlet which goes up to level with the top of the tank, and then down to where I can see it. This means (a) I can allow the tank to fill completely, meaning fewer trips to the disposal point and (b) it greatly reduces the chance of slopping out while travelling with a partially full tank and © I can put the red bucket under the overflow on site to ensure that I don't foul the site. The job cost pennies and took 30 minutes to complete. In addition, I fitted a level switch and warnig light, took a bit longer and cost a fiver.

incidentally, this is the same van that was delivered with three shower tray outlets, one of which discharged straight onto the ground. Everyone told me it was a mistake, but I believe it is the policy of the builders, hence the comment by the supplier referred to above. What chance do we have?

 

 

I know a guy who's addicted to brake fluid. He says he can stop any time.

[the crumblies]

And another thing....

 

Bulletguy reminded me: (1) I've been on a couple of CLs where we were told to throw gray water in the hedge as (a) the hedge benefited and (b) it saved space in his septic tank. You may question the logic of this, see below.

(2) Storm drains, which take surface water from roads and(often) house gutters and NOT the same as sewers, where domestic waste water and sewerage goes. The former often goes straight into the sea or local watercourses, in spite of the fact that it contains oil and other contaminants from roads. The latter goes to sewage processing facilities, where the crud is removed before discharge.

(3) phosphates and other chemicals in domestic detergents are a major source of pollution in natural waterways. Public awareness of this menace is improving slowly, hence the popularity of low-phosphate detergents such as the "Eco" brand.

 

Here's a link for the anoraks:

 

http://www.ehow.com/about_6331125_do-affect-growth-algae-water_.html

 

 

 

:-S

[Brian Kirby]

kelly58 - 2012-11-07 11:21 AM

 

What I find strange whilst in France is that you may have seen for yourself the guys who just urinate anywhere they seem fit even in car parks , and the dog owners who let their dogs do their business where ever they like . I have also seen where toilet waste tanks have been emptied on waste water drains leaving deposits that would not go through the grills , but if your waste outlet is dripping say whilst you are parked on an Aire they soon let you know it is wrong,

And so they should! Because someone has been born in France, it does not follow that they all have similar attitudes. Some French are as shocked and outraged by the behaviour of other French as we are with each other here in UK. Plus ca change, eh?

[Guest pelmetman]

kelly58 - 2012-11-07 11:21 AM

 

What I find strange whilst in France is that you may have seen for yourself the guys who just urinate anywhere they seem fit even in car parks , and the dog owners who let their dogs do their business where ever they like . I have also seen where toilet waste tanks have been emptied on waste water drains leaving deposits that would not go through the grills , but if your waste outlet is dripping say whilst you are parked on an Aire they soon let you know it is wrong,

 

Last month when on the aire at Forges Les Euax ;-)...............watched a French camper go to the service point do the usual empty and fill................and then just before he drove off he pee'd on the bush by the service point 8-)...............I think to the French its a bit like marking your territory (lol) (lol) (lol)

[snowie]

Brian Kirby - 2012-11-07 4:32 PM

 

kelly58 - 2012-11-07 11:21 AM

 

What I find strange whilst in France is that you may have seen for yourself the guys who just urinate anywhere they seem fit even in car parks , and the dog owners who let their dogs do their business where ever they like .

And so they should! Because someone has been born in France, it does not follow that they all have similar attitudes. Some French are as shocked and outraged by the behaviour of other French as we are with each other here in UK. Plus ca change, eh?

 

Brian,

I do think it rather depends of circumstances;

I do object to elderly frenchmen relieving themselves in public places, but only if they face towards the oncoming traffic. I find it amusing that a french man will pull to the side of the road, in his van, having just got off a ferry from Pag island to mainland Croatia and immediately have a pee! I agree tho' that the fresh air is preferable to most public toilets.

 

And as for being shocked by my fellow countrymen's behaviour, most definately when they use a shop doorway, but there are times when we all are caught short! Can't remember the last time or where, but that's no longer unusual (not remembering).

 

As for dog owners; I'll make no comment on this thread,

 

regards

alan b

[Hawcara]

Quite an interesting discussion this. We mostly use Cl's and on some we have been told to get as close to the hedge as possible and dump the grey water, to save the septic tank as it costs a lot to empty. On another, was told if you can get your van over that hole 'you're a better man than me, gungerdin and if you can't drive back up the grass, then you've had it, 'cos me tractors broke!'

 

It is only on a few sites we have seen good drain gullies. :-D

[Colin Leake]

Never normally but I must admit that on the last trip of the season I do empty the waste tank before leaving the site but thenI do leave the drain tap open so that the final dregs of water come out whilst we travel so that the tank is properly empty for the Winter.

[Rayjsj]

No, i don't, as being an ex motorcyclist I remember the 'pit of the stomach' feeling, when on a roundabout smelling diesel.....just before whoops here we go.....

But, a lot of sites, even some with 'Swimming Pools' no less, have nowhere that a motorhome can 'drain tanks' , great for caravanners with their aqua-wastes or whatever, but no-where for a motorhome. In these cases i drive to the first convenient lay-by with a gutter drain, and dump water, first grey then fresh. Although these drains are not connected to the main sewers, they are used to handling far more dirty water than our 'grey'.But straight onto the Road,No. Ray

[747]

I cannot believe that some of you will leave a site with a full waste tank and look for a drain. 8-)

 

Have none of you ever heard of a Bucket?

 

Jeez, how lazy can you get?

[Brian Kirby]

Funny, is it not, Jim? Some drive with almost no fresh water to save fuel, while others happily waddle about with somewhere around 100kg of totally useless waste water. Assuming there is a dump station, I empty before leaving any site, even if when travelling, that means daily. The more often you dump it, the quicker it drains out.

[747]

Brian Kirby - 2012-11-07 11:04 PM

 

Funny, is it not, Jim? Some drive with almost no fresh water to save fuel, while others happily waddle about with somewhere around 100kg of totally useless waste water. Assuming there is a dump station, I empty before leaving any site, even if when travelling, that means daily. The more often you dump it, the quicker it drains out.

 

Yes Brian but not funny haha.

 

I have a slightly different approach to yourself. I let the quantity build up a little in the hope that the 'whoosh' will force out any small solids. I always use a bucket because the nearest I normally get to a site is a C&CC THS.

 

BTW, without sounding pedantic, is 'happily waddle about' a motorhoming term?

[crinklystarfish]

Mike88 - 2012-11-07 11:25 AM...but that does not negate the fact that a deposit of waste on land is an unlawful activity and potentially actionable.However if such a deposit were to cause an accident - shampoo and soap deposits can be slippery - then the authorities could take action.

But getting back to the real world it would be far more likely for offenders to be pursued civilly by the injured party - in the extraordinarily rare event that anyone might actually be injured.

You will know, I can tell, that proving 'controlled' waste itself is something that agencies throughout Europe struggle with - let alone the other elements of the offence, and not forgetting De minimis non curat lex. The EA has a struggle getting grossly outrageous acts of environmental damage to court and has more than enough to occupy itself without worrying about trivia.

I spray soapy deposits all over the road every time I use the washers on my windscreen, It doesn't leave carnage behind me. I also deposit filthy soapy water all over the road every time I wash my car. Nobody cares. I regularly scatter apple cores and such like about all over the countryside. Net gain to ecosystems.

This topic is more than anything about maintaining perspective.

I don't advocate drainage into gulley pots and I don't advocate drainage straight onto the highway whilst driving.

More than anything I don't advocate having a waste water tank - I add to the nutritional content of soil by depositing directly; you probably don't wish to know my views on toileting.

[Mike88]

crinklystarfish - 2012-11-08 9:26 AM

Mike88 - 2012-11-07 11:25 AM...but that does not negate the fact that a deposit of waste on land is an unlawful activity and potentially actionable.However if such a deposit were to cause an accident - shampoo and soap deposits can be slippery - then the authorities could take action.

 

But getting back to the real world it would be far more likely for offenders to be pursued civilly by the injured party - in the extraordinarily rare event that anyone might actually be injured.

You will know, I can tell, that proving 'controlled' waste itself is something that agencies throughout Europe struggle with - let alone the other elements of the offence, and not forgetting De minimis non curat lex. The EA has a struggle getting grossly outrageous acts of environmental damage to court and has more than enough to occupy itself without worrying about trivia.

I spray soapy deposits all over the road every time I use the washers on my windscreen, It doesn't leave carnage behind me. I also deposit filthy soapy water all over the road every time I wash my car. Nobody cares. I regularly scatter apple cores and such like about all over the countryside. Net gain to ecosystems.

This topic is more than anything about maintaining perspective.

I don't advocate drainage into gulley pots and I don't advocate drainage straight onto the highway whilst driving.

More than anything I don't advocate having a waste water tank - I add to the nutritional content of soil by depositing directly; you probably don't wish to know my views on toileting.

Thanks Crinklyfish. Proving whether waste is controlled (ie household, commercial and industrial) is, as you point out, a difficult issue. It was easier years ago where there was case law in the form of Brooke v Long which basically stated that waste was determined to be waste from the point of view of the person disposing of it. Simplistically, if the person disposing of waste thinks it's waste then it is. However things have moved on since then and in the real World my posts were probably something of a red herring even though my rather brief and inadequate explanation was fundamentally correct. You clearly have some knowledge in this area. So have I but I shan't reveal my credentials on an open forum.

[Bulletguy]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-11-07 9:22 AM

 

Bulletguy asks "If facilities cannot (or in the case of UK.....won't) be provided.....what are people expected to do?" This seems to assume that people can acquire a motorhome and then have a right to expect that facilities be provided to assist with motorhome ownership/operation.

 

Not at all Derek.......but provision of facilities would be the most sensible and logical thing to do!

 

Maybe we should start fining people for washing their cars off on a Sunday afternoon allowing all that 'filthy water' to filter through the pathways before eventually finding a drain?

[Brian Kirby]

747 - 2012-11-07 11:54 PM..............BTW, without sounding pedantic, is 'happily waddle about' a motorhoming term?

Emphatically yes. It is the natural gait of a motorhome with a brimming waste tank! :-D

[Robinhood]

Brian Kirby - 2012-11-08 6:14 PM

 

747 - 2012-11-07 11:54 PM..............BTW, without sounding pedantic, is 'happily waddle about' a motorhoming term?

Emphatically yes. It is the natural gait of a motorhome with a brimming waste tank! :-D

 

.....in the context of the thread, I simply thought you had misspelled "widdle". ;-)