When is a Site not a Site?

[robertandjean]

Answer when it's an aire! Question provoked by comments from some British 'vanners in visitors book at Stenay (dept 55). They commented that this was a great little site with very friendly owners, clearly unaware they were staying on an aire. This did however, make us realise that many of the larger or newer aires do have many characteristics of sites, but thankfully only the better ones. This is certainly true of Steny, where we are now, on our way back to port, with showers, hook-ups, wi-fi etc (like many sites) but with views of canal and close to town centre (unlike most sites). So it may well be that in the cases of aires of this genre the distinction between aire and site is indeed not so clear cut and the champions of each may, in future, find more in common.

This would be particular true of at least three of the other aires we have stayed on this trip. Mouzon (dept 08), is in a great situation right next to canal, again with all facilities, as has Dun-sur-Meuse also in nice setting; both near town. (Note: Mouzon aire now closed for season (like a lot of sites); Fee is 7.8€ including wi-fi. Stenay is 7€/night, with wi-ff @ 3€ for 48 hours, Dunn-sur-Meuse is 7€/night; all include electricity)

Have however, saved best till last. Aire at Pont-a- Mouson (dept 54), set next to marina and just over bridge to town has recently been modernised. Number of pitches extended, but need to arrive early to ensure a place, and new facilities added. Showers, toilets and laundry are all brand new, cleaned every day and of 5 star standard. Hook-ups all pitches and really good on "site" resturant (17€ for 2 courses plus wine, well rec.) Can also catch bus to Nancy from bus station just down road for 5€ return; well worth visit. We had been before but enjoyed again. Fee per night is 7.5€ with wi-fi from adjacent MacDonalds, but suspect could increase next year as understand automatic entry barriers might be installed but worth at least 12€/night. (note this aire closes for season on 31/10).

So there we are. Could well be that the old debate of aires v camp sites might not have much more milage in it, which would not be a bad thing as main thing is we all enjoy our 'vanning particullarly in La Belle France!!

[Dave225]

robertandjean - 2012-09-20 4:54 PM

 

Answer when it's an aire! Question provoked by comments from some British 'vanners in visitors book at Stenay (dept 55). They commented that this was a great little site with very friendly owners, clearly unaware they were staying on an aire. This did however, make us realise that many of the larger or newer aires do have many characteristics of sites, but thankfully only the better ones. This is certainly true of Steny, where we are now, on our way back to port, with showers, hook-ups, wi-fi etc (like many sites) but with views of canal and close to town centre (unlike most sites). So it may well be that in the cases of aires of this genre the distinction between aire and site is indeed not so clear cut and the champions of each may, in future, find more in common.

This would be particular true of at least three of the other aires we have stayed on this trip. Mouzon (dept 08), is in a great situation right next to canal, again with all facilities, as has Dun-sur-Meuse also in nice setting; both near town. (Note: Mouzon aire now closed for season (like a lot of sites); Fee is 7.8€ including wi-fi. Stenay is 7€/night, with wi-ff @ 3€ for 48 hours, Dunn-sur-Meuse is 7€/night; all include electricity)

Have however, saved best till last. Aire at Pont-a- Mouson (dept 54), set next to marina and just over bridge to town has recently been modernised. Number of pitches extended, but need to arrive early to ensure a place, and new facilities added. Showers, toilets and laundry are all brand new, cleaned every day and of 5 star standard. Hook-ups all pitches and really good on "site" resturant (17€ for 2 courses plus wine, well rec.) Can also catch bus to Nancy from bus station just down road for 5€ return; well worth visit. We had been before but enjoyed again. Fee per night is 7.5€ with wi-fi from adjacent MacDonalds, but suspect could increase next year as understand automatic entry barriers might be installed but worth at least 12€/night. (note this aire closes for season on 31/10).

So there we are. Could well be that the old debate of aires v camp sites might not have much more milage in it, which would not be a bad thing as main thing is we all enjoy our 'vanning particullarly in La Belle France!!

 

€17 for 2 courses. B...y H..l That is expensive. Now Spain you will pay €11 for 4 courses, wine and coffee, which is why we, including bunches of Frogs, are down here.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Agree Dave..and why we drive through as quick as we can!:D To somewhere with decent weather and food.....Also another thing that bugs me, what about the poor locals being put out of work by turning sites into aires with automatic gates etc...

[JohnP]

I certainly agree about Aire at Pont-a- Mouson (dept 54), Was there a few weeks ago. Will remember it because it was dark at 16.00 due to a tromendous thunderstorm. A super spot.

[robertandjean]

Well Dave have to say that the quality of both the meal and wine we were sevred for our 17€ was much better than we have ever had in Spain, but suppose it depends on what you put first price or quality; plus the ambience was also first class.

Eddie you really must get over your dislike of France and the French; an intelligent person like yourself should be more open minded!! Regarding loss of jobs then yes it is a shame that auto barriers result in this but the trade, and therefore jobs, aires generate in local cafes, bars, shops etc must not be overlooked. Can we also put this nonsense that France has only poor weather to bed also. For example, on this trip we have in 24 days had only 2 days with any rain with sun on almost all of rest and temperatures in mid/high 20's to low 30's on 17 days so not too bad considering we were in north eastern France. We have certainly visited many countries with much worse weather in our 30 years of 'vanning including days of heavy rain in your beloved Italy!

Both of you have missed the main point here however, that many aires are now including facilities that were in the past only on sites, yet still retain the qualities that make aires special.

[Guest pelmetman]

As for quality scran ;-)................I still reckon France wins at the cheap end of the market B-).........

 

Recently we had 4 courses in Brittany for e11.50 a head including a litre bottle of wine and cidre ...........O ....and eau :D.......................bargain B-)

[Guest peter]

Agreed Dave, but not everyone wants to dine at the Sangatte refugee camp.

We also found France to be very expensive to eat out, at 24 euros plus for the menu of the day each. In one rip off place we were charged 4.5 euros for a 25cl bottle of heineken. We won't be spending much of our money there again.

We've just got back from Germany and it's much more reasonable.

We found a vet on the Mosel that charges only 8 euros for our dog, and speaks excellent english. With a wicked sense of humour. Vets in France are also a rip off, I can';t understand anyone still using them, as you now have 5 days leeway.

[Derek Uzzell]

When we lunch in France (which will be on most week-days) we rarely pay more than €13 per person. This price will normally include a starter, main course, cheese, dessert, wine/cider and coffee. Evening dining may be more expensive (just like it can be in the UK), and can be very expensive (just like everywhere else) if one insists on going to Michelin-standard restaurants.

 

House prices vary, vehicle prices vary, fuel prices vary, food prices vary, wine prices vary, average income varies, individuals' income varies, campsite prices vary, hotel prices vary, 'aire' prices vary, tax varies, ferry prices vary, meal prices vary, etc. etc. - it's a variable world, always has been and always will be.

[Guest JudgeMental]

JohnP - 2012-09-20 7:44 PM

 

I certainly agree about Aire at Pont-a- Mouson (dept 54), Was there a few weeks ago. Will remember it because it was dark at 16.00 due to a tromendous thunderstorm. A super spot.

 

On this 6 week tour we spent only one night in France (morning tunnel) at Gravelines and it rained more that evening then during the entire holiday *-) I like Gravelines and have stayed there many times..they are tearing up the town square and putting down a very smart surface. I had difficulty with the Aire pay machine but a very kind Belgian lady took pity and assisted...I was just not sticking the credit card in properly you have to keep on trying as machine does not accept it automatically?

 

I just find France poor value with mediocre food.

[Derek Uzzell]

JudgeMental - 2012-09-21 9:35 AM

 

...I just find France poor value with mediocre food.

 

It's a perfectly acceptable view but, like my diametrically opposite one (good value - excellent quality food), subjective.

 

[crinklystarfish]

Glad the matter of when is a site not a site has been aired (this stuff writes itself).

I will now feel much better informed about which kind of stop-over I'm ignoring in order to find somewhere more pleasant to camp.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-21 9:52 AM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-09-21 9:35 AM

 

...I just find France poor value with mediocre food.

 

It's a perfectly acceptable view but, like my diametrically opposite one (good value - excellent quality food), subjective.

 

Rubbish......another French myth, have had more poor, expensive food in France then anywhere, a bad piece of beef is a bad piece of beef. Based on 30 years "travelling" with a vegetarian wife. Nice to see yet more Italian cooking programs on TV with more coming.

[Guest JudgeMental]

crinklystarfish - 2012-09-21 10:02 AMGlad the matter of when is a site not a site has been aired (this stuff writes itself).

I will now feel much better informed about which kind of stop-over I'm ignoring in order to find somewhere more pleasant to camp.

Crinkley something to help you stop falling asleep...... when I saw it I thought of you, on site in Croatia

[crinklystarfish]

crinkly likes.

[Guest JudgeMental]

crinklystarfish - 2012-09-21 10:43 AM

 

crinkly likes.

 

it is a real beast!lol having problem resizing images with new camera

[pepe63xnotuse]

Continuing off the main topic(sorry :$ )..we've emailed this chap a couple of times..but we've yet to hear back..? :-S

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-Land-Cruiser-camper-/230847476672?pt=UK_Campers_Caravans_Motorhomes&hash=item35bf94f3c0

 

...I've no idea what state it would be in..I suppose it could've been beaten half to death and be rough as hell...

..but we wouldn't be crosssing Africa in it anyway..I'd only really want it for a basic "festival vehicle"...

 

Back onto the sites/Aires topic...I've no idea how but the other day,I "stumbled across" a thread on another forum(MHFs?)which was discussing the possibity of caravans being allowed to use Aires(..I think it had linked from a German mag/website/poll..?)

 

I've no idea if it was just something to chat about or whether it was actually being looking at...?

 

As we don't venture abroad yet,due to time and money(..lack of both!),it wouldn't affect us..but I can imagine caravans would soon "clog things up" if space was limited(..although probably no more than MHs with trailers or A frames..)

 

[malc d]

Well, I'm wandering around France at the moment and STILL can't see what the great benefits of aires are ( apart from cost ) and I do occasionally stay on 'em.

 

I've always seen them as just a basic campsite.

 

 

;-)

 

Mind you - come to think of it, you do get to empty your own toilet more often - that's gotta be a plus !

 

 

 

:-D

[robertandjean]

malc d - 2012-09-21 2:44 PM

 

Well, I'm wandering around France at the moment and STILL can't see what the great benefits of aires are ( apart from cost ) and I do occasionally stay on 'em.

 

I've always seen them as just a basic campsite.

 

 

;-)

 

Mind you - come to think of it, you do get to empty your own toilet more often - that's gotta be a plus !

 

Well malc one of the great benefits of the French aires network is you can just wander about with no pre-booking; try doing that in U.K. Yes it is also true that you can stop on most French camp sites, particularly municipals, without booking and that's great also, but if you are intending to wander for much longer then most sites will have closed, infact many already have. Yes a few aires also close but most are open all year. Another, in our opinion great benefit is that aires tend to be in, or near village/town centres whereas sites are often well out. But each to his/her own; if you prefer sites then great, main thing is you are still in France whilst we are on ferry on way home! But we will be back in under a month.

 

 

 

:-D

[robertandjean]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-21 9:52 AM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-09-21 9:35 AM

 

...I just find France poor value with mediocre food.

 

It's a perfectly acceptable view but, like my diametrically opposite one (good value - excellent quality food), subjective.

 

Spot on Derek, could not agree more. Clearly a man of taste, unlike some on here!!!

[robertandjean]

crinklystarfish - 2012-09-21 10:02 AMGlad the matter of when is a site not a site has been aired (this stuff writes itself).

I will now feel much better informed about which kind of stop-over I'm ignoring in order to find somewhere more pleasant to camp.

Sorry you find this subject of little interest; we were only attempting to give a little more info about one or two aires, but in a different format. Maybe what forum needs is more pictures of home made truck conversions (yawn, yawn, yawn).

[malc d]

robertandjean - 2012-09-23 9:32 AM

 

malc d - 2012-09-21 2:44 PM

 

Well, I'm wandering around France at the moment and STILL can't see what the great benefits of aires are ( apart from cost ) and I do occasionally stay on 'em.

 

I've always seen them as just a basic campsite.

 

 

;-)

 

Mind you - come to think of it, you do get to empty your own toilet more often - that's gotta be a plus !

 

Well malc one of the great benefits of the French aires network is you can just wander about with no pre-booking; try doing that in U.K. Yes it is also true that you can stop on most French camp sites, particularly municipals, without booking and that's great also, but if you are intending to wander for much longer then most sites will have closed, infact many already have. Yes a few aires also close but most are open all year. Another, in our opinion great benefit is that aires tend to be in, or near village/town centres whereas sites are often well out. But each to his/her own; if you prefer sites then great, main thing is you are still in France whilst we are on ferry on way home! But we will be back in under a month.

 

 

 

:-D

[/quote

 

 

I have to agree that I prefer an aire that is open, to a site that is closed.

 

 

p.s. Have never booked a site anywhere on the continent in the last forty years.

 

p.p.s I don't " prefer " sites to aires, i really just don't see much difference-it's just a place to stop.

 

 

Hope your crossing is nice and smooth - ours is next weekend.

 

;-)

[crinklystarfish]

robertandjean,

I guess you've rumbled me.

I do like my truck conversions and apologise humbly for gleaning a little pleasure from the occasional pic. I realise it's incredibly rude of me to occasionally drop in and promote / support a slightly different kind of perspective on motorhomes on a public motorhome forum. Please forgive me.

One day I aspire to free myself from the shackles of back-road worldwide travel and to shuffle from dull French car park to dull French car park in a shiny white anonymous box. Who knows, I may even be so moved by the experience that I may write about it and incessantly appropriate a public forum to inculcate any who resist the notion that there could possibly be any plausible alternative.

I may even have the decency to start my own blog or website so that those who may be uninterested wouldn't constantly be subject to my very narrow value judgements; except hardly anyone would notice.

I'm genuinely happy that you enjoy yourselves and wish you well but isn't there any kind of my-aire's-better-than-your-aire forum out there where people can more appropriately share tales of murky grey weather and the price of baguettes?

[PJay]

crinklystarfish - 2012-09-23 10:40 AMrobertandjean,

I guess you've rumbled me.

I do like my truck conversions and apologise humbly for gleaning a little pleasure from the occasional pic. I realise it's incredibly rude of me to occasionally drop in and promote / support a slightly different kind of perspective on motorhomes on a public motorhome forum. Please forgive me.

One day I aspire to free myself from the shackles of back-road worldwide travel and to shuffle from dull French car park to dull French car park in a shiny white anonymous box. Who knows, I may even be so moved by the experience that I may write about it and incessantly appropriate a public forum to inculcate any who resist the notion that there could possibly be any plausible alternative.

I may even have the decency to start my own blog or website so that those who may be uninterested wouldn't constantly be subject to my very narrow value judgements; except hardly anyone would notice.

I'm genuinely happy that you enjoy yourselves and wish you well but isn't there any kind of my-aire's-better-than-your-aire forum out there where people can more appropriately share tales of murky grey weather and the price of baguettes?

Have to agree with you. All Robert and Jean ever seem to post about are "aires" Why don't they just write a blog, and save those amongst us not interested their views . I usually do not open them any way.

[Brian Kirby]

JudgeMental - 2012-09-21 10:05 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-21 9:52 AM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-09-21 9:35 AM

 

...I just find France poor value with mediocre food.

 

It's a perfectly acceptable view but, like my diametrically opposite one (good value - excellent quality food), subjective.

 

Rubbish......another French myth, have had more poor, expensive food in France then anywhere, a bad piece of beef is a bad piece of beef. Based on 30 years "travelling" with a vegetarian wife. Nice to see yet more Italian cooking programs on TV with more coming.

Bit of a contradiction there Eddy, as you say you ignore France like the plague! :-) What constitutes a good meal will always be a matter of opinion. As a generalisation, I find meals in France better prepared, better presented, better cooked, and better served, and cheaper, than in England, so for me French cooking wins hands down every time. However, I tend to go for proper French food,and not steak-frites type meals or hamburgers. Little point in eating out, if the food is worse than one can make ones self! But, as with everything, not all French meals are good, and we had a really poor meal in Ile-sur-la-Sorgue this spring. Our fault, wrong place, and I half knew that when we sat down!

 

Eating out is seldom cheap, cheap, but rarely costs more than €60 including wine and service (I'm a bit envious of Derek's published prices, although we did get an excellent meal in a Logis this spring, for around his figure.), which compares very well with what our local(ish) gastro(ish) pub charges. That is eating at lunch time, using the ubiquitous fixed price menus. Dinner is invariably more expensive, and is often restricted to the Carte. We rarely "do" dinner. However, prices do vary widely across France, so it is a bit misleading to generalise. Rough rule of thumb, is that a meal for two will cost approximately three times the fixed price menu cost if wine, water, and coffee are included.

 

So, if you are finding French food poor and expensive, I can only assume you don't like what I like, (which is obviously possible, but doesn't make what I like poor quality or poor value) or, you are choosing your restaurants badly, or you are eating at the wrong time, in the wrong place. Since you find almost all other countries offer better value and quality, I don't think the difference can be in the basic quality of ingredients or cooking, but more in what you prefer, which it seems is just not what the French prefer.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Please peoples lets stop making comparisons with the good old UK (joke) on anything? That includes from my perspective: camping/motorhoming...food...way we educate and treat our young.... weather..... the list goes on....

 

Brian, All I can say from over 30 years of this and a good bit of it spent in France we have had more disappointing expensive food there then anywhere. and then you have the miserable weather..

 

Tuscany was delightful, smashing food and good value...even some campsite restaurants were top notch. not one iffy meal in six weeks except in Croatia