French toll charges

[Maddog]

Has anybody else encountered the problem of being charged the wrong class when using tolls in France?

we came across this at most of the tolls and will not pay the class 3 they try to charge us , our motorhome has alway been class 2 until they automated most of the payment points. please take my advice and use the help button on the toll crossing point and refuse to pay the extortionate prices, i had all mine dropped to class 2 without any questions being asked, a saving of about £80.

[Cliffy]

We had stopped using toll roads because or that reason but coming back home just yesterday we gave it another try, now we are a bit more savvy.

It was a manned toll booth and we were charged Class 2, Paris to Arras  17.20 Euros. which was very reasonable compared with what we were charged last year. So we may use them again next year but we will ensure we only pay class 2 and do what you suggest.

  

[Guest pelmetman]

No point in us using toll roads as we can't go fast enough :D

[rolandrat]

We have just returned from France having decided to ignore the toll routes as much as possible and on reflection I think it was a very bad decision. The constant slowing down, stopping, roundabouts, speed limits and numerous other reasons including very poor journey times has made me realise that the toll routes are easier on the motorhome from a wear and tear point of view and will far out way the eventual servicing costs. There are obviously numerous times when auto-routes aren't appropriate but all in all they will be our main consideration once again. We have been abroad numerous times and it was the first time that we have tried it and definately the last.

[Derek Uzzell]

Autoroute vehicle 'classes' are detailed here:

 

http://www.autoroutes.fr/fr/classification-des-vehicules.htm

 

If a motorhome falls into Class 2 - height between 2 metres and 3 metres, and maximum overall weight up to 3500kg - then the Class 2 tariff should be charged.

 

If a motorhome falls into Class 3 - 2 axles, a height greater than 3 metres or a maximum overall weight over 3500kg - then the Class 3 tariff should be charged.

 

If a motorhome falls into Class 4 - more than 2 axles, a height of 3 metres or above or a maximum overall weight over 3500kg - then the Class 4 tariff should be charged.

 

If Maddog is complaining that autoroute automated charging systems regularly place his motorhome in Class 3 or Class 4, when it should be in Class 2 based on the definition of that class, then his complaint is justified and he is fully entitled to insist that the Class 2 tariff be applied to his vehicle.

 

However, If Maddog's motorhome actually does not comply with the Class 2 definition, that's another matter.

 

Due to driving-licence restrictions, few French-registered motorhomes fall into autoroute Classes 3 or 4. Consequently, it used to be normal practice for autoroute toll-booth personnel to treat all motorhomes as Class 2 vehicles.

 

It was commonplace for UK motorcaravanners with vehicles that were visually large (and almost certainly over the Class 2 height/weight limits) to be charged the Class 2 tariff.

 

Even UK motorcaravanners with tandem rear-axle motorhomes often used to be charged the Class 2 tariff (though it was plain that the Class 4 tariff should have been applied). It was also not unknown for them to then complain on UK motorhome forums when the Class 4 tariff had been correctly demanded instead.

 

It's important to be aware of which autoroute Class your motorhome falls into. Then, if you know you are being overcharged tariff-wise, you can justifiably refuse to pay. Obviously, even if your motorhome is not in Class 2 and the appropriate tariff is being demanded, you can still refuse to pay and hope that the Class 2 tariff will be applied (inappropriately) instead. But you had better be prepared for this ploy not always working.

[lennyhb]

rolandrat - 2012-09-25 10:03 AM

 

We have just returned from France having decided to ignore the toll routes as much as possible and on reflection I think it was a very bad decision. The constant slowing down, stopping, roundabouts, speed limits and numerous other reasons including very poor journey times has made me realise that the toll routes are easier on the motorhome from a wear and tear point of view and will far out way the eventual servicing costs. There are obviously numerous times when auto-routes aren't appropriate but all in all they will be our main consideration once again. We have been abroad numerous times and it was the first time that we have tried it and definately the last.

 

Since we gave up tugging and changed to a Motorhome 4 years ago we have never paid a toll in France and don't intend to in the foreseeable future.

Trundling though rural French villages just stopping for the night when it appeals is what France is all about.

[Guest pelmetman]

lennyhb - 2012-09-25 11:03 AM

 

rolandrat - 2012-09-25 10:03 AM

 

We have just returned from France having decided to ignore the toll routes as much as possible and on reflection I think it was a very bad decision. The constant slowing down, stopping, roundabouts, speed limits and numerous other reasons including very poor journey times has made me realise that the toll routes are easier on the motorhome from a wear and tear point of view and will far out way the eventual servicing costs. There are obviously numerous times when auto-routes aren't appropriate but all in all they will be our main consideration once again. We have been abroad numerous times and it was the first time that we have tried it and definately the last.

 

Since we gave up tugging and changed to a Motorhome 4 years ago we have never paid a toll in France and don't intend to in the foreseeable future.

Trundling though rural French villages just stopping for the night when it appeals is what France is all about.

 

Have to say saving wear and tear on the camper as a reason to pay toll's is a new one on me :-S ............I'd like to see the spread sheet on that conundrum :D

[Guest JudgeMental]

lennyhb - 2012-09-25 11:03 AM

 

rolandrat - 2012-09-25 10:03 AM

 

We have just returned from France having decided to ignore the toll routes as much as possible and on reflection I think it was a very bad decision. The constant slowing down, stopping, roundabouts, speed limits and numerous other reasons including very poor journey times has made me realise that the toll routes are easier on the motorhome from a wear and tear point of view and will far out way the eventual servicing costs. There are obviously numerous times when auto-routes aren't appropriate but all in all they will be our main consideration once again. We have been abroad numerous times and it was the first time that we have tried it and definately the last.

 

Since we gave up tugging and changed to a Motorhome 4 years ago we have never paid a toll in France and don't intend to in the foreseeable future.

Trundling though rural French villages just stopping for the night when it appeals is what France is all about.

 

used to hate non toll routes in our hightop CB..sailing around multiple roundabouts a nightmare...Now we have a panel van! so much happier, MUCH faster and it flys around roundabouts...my mate went via France to meet us in Italy this year and paid £180 for the privialge of using french auto routes *-) we also went motorway all the way but cost was 8€ for Austrian vignette. Trip to Spain early this year was all non toll and a breeze.

[Keith T]

We use a mixture of all types of road in France, depending on several factors....including how quickly we want to get from A-B, what the difference in time/distance is, if there are any Autoroutes on the journey, what the weather is like.......

It is very interesting on the TomTOm you can look at a route,and progrmame the 'quickest', then as an alternative set one which avoids toll roads. Sometimes the distance using Tools is a lot futher anyway, and we also do not travel at the speed expected on the Autoroutes, so end up just as quickly by not using them.

We also find lots of very interesting places to stop at when using non autoroutes.

Another considerationis the cost - apart from the actual toll charge ' as very often you will use more fuel as the tendencey is todrive much faster!

In all the time we have been travelling through France, however, we have never been charged the wrong rate - whether my a manned pay booth or the automated ones. There doenst seem much logic though, as to which slot the ticket pops out of when you first enter the toll road!

Certainly the reduction some years ago to Class 2 as standard for most MHs was very welcomed - I thnk largely due to the pressure from French MH owners..and does anyone remember when for a couple of yeasr you could travle at something like half-price, I think it was-on certain Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays?

[Derek Uzzell]

Keith T - 2012-09-25 2:24 PM

 

...Certainly the reduction some years ago to Class 2 as standard for most MHs was very welcomed - I thnk largely due to the pressure from French MH owners..and does anyone remember when for a couple of yeasr you could travle at something like half-price, I think it was-on certain Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays?

 

As far as I'm aware there have been no significant changes to autoroute vehicle classifications for many years, and there's never been anything differentiating motorhomes from other vehicles. This is a file that shows the regulations in force in 2001

 

http://www.vinci-autoroutes.com/file/galleryelement/pj/7d/38/6a/ea/classification6377047153351903261.pdf

 

The Class 2 definition was no different then from what it is now, with "la plupart des camping-cars" falling into Class 2 because that's the size/weight of motorhome that the majority of French motorcaravanners owned then and still own now. There's no special dispensation that allows (or has allowed) a motorhome (French-registered or otherwise) to qualify for the Class 2 tariff if the motorhome does not meet the Class 2 definition.

 

I vaguely recall, a few years back, a forum member saying that he had been charged a discounted tariff on a autoroute on a particular day and time, and speculating that this might be a good way to save money when travelling generally in France. I remember that, when I researched the matter, while it was true that day/time tariff discounts had indeed been available to the forum member, these only applied to the particular stretch of autoroute he happened to be using.

[Curtisden]

I think you will find that automatic hight sensors are now fitted on Tolls approaches and you get charged based upon your hight.

I do wonder why some argue about paying for what they are? Buy a big white box pay for a big white box.

[Cliffy]

Sounds like I will have to unscrew the spike off the top of my TV aerial before I go through the Piege, as it puts me just over the 3 mtr height. :-) .

Do the automated Pieges actually measure the hieght and weight of a vehicle?

If not how do they come up with the correct class toll to levy?

[Guest JudgeMental]

If the vehicle over 3 M so be it..but my roof aircon put me over and was always charged class 2 but on auto tolls charged 3. Only payed it once until I discovered the button then they simply charged 2 every time...

 

In Spain campers are class 1 the same as cars, as they should be as purely leisure vehicles, tolls cheap as well.... Also fuel on motorways same price as off, so no hunting about for supermarkets required.... vive la difference my arse :-D

[Keith T]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-25 3:03 PM

 

Keith T - 2012-09-25 2:24 PM

 

...Certainly the reduction some years ago to Class 2 as standard for most MHs was very welcomed - I thnk largely due to the pressure from French MH owners..and does anyone remember when for a couple of yeasr you could travle at something like half-price, I think it was-on certain Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays?

 

As far as I'm aware there have been no significant changes to autoroute vehicle classifications for many years, and there's never been anything differentiating motorhomes from other vehicles. This is a file that shows the regulations in force in 2001

 

http://www.vinci-autoroutes.com/file/galleryelement/pj/7d/38/6a/ea/classification6377047153351903261.pdf

 

The Class 2 definition was no different then from what it is now, with "la plupart des camping-cars" falling into Class 2 because that's the size/weight of motorhome that the majority of French motorcaravanners owned then and still own now. There's no special dispensation that allows (or has allowed) a motorhome (French-registered or otherwise) to qualify for the Class 2 tariff if the motorhome does not meet the Class 2 definition.

 

.

 

Derek

..I guess my travelling days in France go back rather further then 2001- in fact 1991,and we were definitely charged as Class 3 then, whilst Caravans were Class 2.....we could never work ou the logic of that, and i guess it would. be maybe late 90's when MHs were brought in line with Caravans....so perhaps before that all MHs were classed in one group..it was certyainly a releif and good savings to get us into Class 2, as I sem to remember group 3 was roughly Class2 +50%!

[BGD]

JudgeMental - 2012-09-25 5:04 PM

 

If the vehicle over 3 M so be it..but my roof aircon put me over and was always charged class 2 but on auto tolls charged 3. Only payed it once until I discovered the button then they simply charged 2 every time...

 

In Spain campers are class 1 the same as cars, as they should be as purely leisure vehicles, tolls cheap as well.... Also fuel on motorways same price as off, so no hunting about for supermarkets required.... vive la difference my arse :-D

 

 

 

Motorhomes are indeed charged the same as cars on toll motorways here in Spain, BUT only if they have a single wheel/single axle setup at the rear.

 

If you've got a twin-wheel setup at the rear, or a tag axle at the rear, expect to have to pay the higher, rate of toll for over 3.5 tonne vehicles.

[laimeduck]

The category definition for the various classes can be found in this link for 2012:- http://www.autoroutes.fr/en/vehicle-classification.htm

 

The costs for 2012 can be accessed from this site:-

http://www.autoroutes.fr/en/key-rates.htm

 

So if you are under 3500Kg you are class 2, if over 3500Kg you are class 3.

 

Personally , as we are over 3500Kg, we only use the peages to get round cities. The rest of the time we use D roads and enjoy the scenery & relatively traffic free conditions. But, each to their own

 

(Typo edit)

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

JudgeMental - 2012-09-25 4:04 PM

 

If the vehicle over 3 M so be it..but my roof aircon put me over and was always charged class 2 but on auto tolls charged 3. Only payed it once until I discovered the button then they simply charged 2 every time...

 

These are a some earlier threads in which Patricia touches on what counts as a 'vehicle over 3 metres in height' where the autoroute Vehicle Class is concerned:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12072&start=1

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=15137&start=1

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19219&posts=24

 

I've not looked into this in any detail (as there's no chance any vehicle I drive on an autoroute will be over 3 metres tall) but it's evident from Patricia's (and other on-line) comments that certain roof-mounted items are considered relevant to critical height limits, whereas others are ignored. A roof-box attached to a car's roof-rack (as I understand it) does not count, and Patricia advises that a roof-mounted air-conditioner should count, but not a roof-mounted satellite-TV dome.

 

Like the rules for the UK's Vehicle Excise Duty charges, autoroute vehicle classes are arbitrary. There's no particular logic why a motorhome 2.95m high should be in Class 2, while a motorhome 3.05 metres high should be in Class 3. As with the UK's VED rules, that's just the way it is.

 

A human toll-booth operator, clued up on the small print of the autoroute Class system, may be able to identify items mounted on a motorhome's roof and decide whether or not they change the vehicle's Class from 2 to 3, but a height-sensing system of an unmanned toll-booth won't.

 

Incidentally, this is the thread relating to day/time discounted toll charges that I mentioned earlier:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25130&posts=3

 

Evidently the 'fluid tariff' system relating to the A1 and A14 is still in force as shown here:

 

http://www.sanef.com/Le-peage-simple/Tarifs-et-paiement-du-peage/Tarification

 

(It's worth noting that there's a 'green' 25% reduced tariff, but also a 'red' 25% increased tariff.)

 

[bertieburstner]

having just got back from France using the toll roads, at all the manned booths the operator always had a very good look at the back wheels to see if we were a tag axle or twin rear wheels, apart from one who was so engrossed in his phone game he could barely make the effort to collect the toll.

 

As an aside for those of us poor people who are still working and only have two weeks available we choose to use the autoroutes to get to the sunnier bits quicker. i would love never to use a toll road and meander about but time is always a factor boo hoo

[JamesFrance]

When I came back to Carcassonne from the coast recently, the exit was unmanned. I was surprised to be charged class 1 as usually we are class 2.

 

The unmanned kiosk has an upper and lower set of card slots and I used the low ones. I wonder if this made the difference.

[robertandjean]

JudgeMental - 2012-09-25 11:34 AM

 

lennyhb - 2012-09-25 11:03 AM

 

rolandrat - 2012-09-25 10:03 AM

 

We have just returned from France having decided to ignore the toll routes as much as possible and on reflection I think it was a very bad decision. The constant slowing down, stopping, roundabouts, speed limits and numerous other reasons including very poor journey times has made me realise that the toll routes are easier on the motorhome from a wear and tear point of view and will far out way the eventual servicing costs. There are obviously numerous times when auto-routes aren't appropriate but all in all they will be our main consideration once again. We have been abroad numerous times and it was the first time that we have tried it and definately the last.

 

Since we gave up tugging and changed to a Motorhome 4 years ago we have never paid a toll in France and don't intend to in the foreseeable future.

Trundling though rural French villages just stopping for the night when it appeals is what France is all about.

 

used to hate non toll routes in our hightop CB..sailing around multiple roundabouts a nightmare...Now we have a panel van! so much happier, MUCH faster and it flys around roundabouts...my mate went via France to meet us in Italy this year and paid £180 for the privialge of using french auto routes *-) we also went motorway all the way but cost was 8€ for Austrian vignette. Trip to Spain early this year was all non toll and a breeze.

 

Must be something wrong with your driving technique Eddie! We use non-toll routes in our Coach built all the time and never any promlem negotiaing multiple roundabouts or driving at the speed limit.

[Guest ChrisB]

Just a reminder to those, like me, who may have a motorhome adapted for a disabled passenger and the V5/Tax disk is for the "Disabled" category then they should be charged at Classe 1 rates (assuming Classe 2 normally).

You may have to show your V5 to confirm "Disabled" (handicapé on French documents). We have always found most toll booth operators know the regulation. Only one awkward individual this year but as it was only a couple of euros saving we didn't take it further.

Of course you will have to call for assistance at automated toll booths as it's difficult arguing with a machine.

 

From the Sanef website:

 

6.5. Are there any discounts for disabled people?

 

Yes. Blue badge holders who have Class 2 vehicles are entitled to be charged at Class 1 rate. ...

.... More information can be found at http://www.autoroutes.fr/en/services-for-disabled-people.htm

 

Not sure if any concessions apply to Classe 3 vehicles.

 

Chris

 

PS

I seem to recall that the 3m height limit for Classe 2 is for the basic vehicle and does not include rooftop additions such as boxes and dishes?

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

robertandjean - 2012-09-25 8:51 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-09-25 11:34 AM

 

lennyhb - 2012-09-25 11:03 AM

 

rolandrat - 2012-09-25 10:03 AM

 

We have just returned from France having decided to ignore the toll routes as much as possible and on reflection I think it was a very bad decision. The constant slowing down, stopping, roundabouts, speed limits and numerous other reasons including very poor journey times has made me realise that the toll routes are easier on the motorhome from a wear and tear point of view and will far out way the eventual servicing costs. There are obviously numerous times when auto-routes aren't appropriate but all in all they will be our main consideration once again. We have been abroad numerous times and it was the first time that we have tried it and definately the last.

 

Since we gave up tugging and changed to a Motorhome 4 years ago we have never paid a toll in France and don't intend to in the foreseeable future.

Trundling though rural French villages just stopping for the night when it appeals is what France is all about.

 

used to hate non toll routes in our hightop CB..sailing around multiple roundabouts a nightmare...Now we have a panel van! so much happier, MUCH faster and it flys around roundabouts...my mate went via France to meet us in Italy this year and paid £180 for the privialge of using french auto routes *-) we also went motorway all the way but cost was 8€ for Austrian vignette. Trip to Spain early this year was all non toll and a breeze.

 

Must be something wrong with your driving technique Eddie! We use non-toll routes in our Coach built all the time and never any promlem negotiaing multiple roundabouts or driving at the speed limit.

 

we have had a number of hightops and last Ford very soft suspension, Fiat much better. Plus we are usually in a rush to get somewhere decent.

[rolandrat]

The point about toll roads is just a personal view, and every one has their own reasons for using or avoiding them but my motorhome is usually freighted to the maximum for weight and if I can have a relaxing 60mph cruise on them where ever possible then that for me is what I want, there is less stress and wear and tear and the mpg saved is a definite plus.

[Derek Uzzell]

bertieburstner - 2012-09-25 6:24 PM

 

having just got back from France using the toll roads, at all the manned booths the operator always had a very good look at the back wheels to see if we were a tag axle or twin rear wheels,..

 

Although (from BGD's advice) Spanish motorway charges differ according to whether a vehicle has a 'single wheel' rear-axle or a 'twinned wheel' rear axle (ie. one or two wheels on each end of the axle), this is not a factor in the French autoroute vehicle classification system.

 

The latter should be evident from the drawings and text on the Classifications part of the autoroutes.fr website. If a motorhome has more than two axles, is 3 or more metres high or has a maximum permitted overall weight above 3500kg, it falls into Class 4. So all motorhomes with a tandem rear-axle configuration using the Al-Ko chassis (the norm for 3-axle European motorhomes) should be charged the Class 4 tariff.

 

if a motorhome does not have more than two axles, then, depending on its maximum permitted overall weight and/or its height, it will fall into Class 2 or Class 3. This won't change even if the vehicle has a twinned-wheel rear axle (as do many Iveco- or Mercedes-based large motorhomes and most large RVs).

 

The Class 3 drawings include a 2-axle coach that will inevitably have a twinned-wheel rear axle, while the Class 4 drawings include a similar-sized coach with a tandem rear-axle configuration. Each of the latter's two rear axles might be 'single wheel' or 'twinned wheel', and one might be a 'tag axle' rather than a driven axle. But none of this matters, because, having more than 2 axles and undoubtedly being over 3500kg weight-wise, the vehicle is bound to fall into Class 4.

[Syd]

 

Cannot read everything written on here, not enough time to spare, so just in case anyone has missed this important bit.

 

Disabled badge holders can travel class one ONLY if their documents state that the vehicle is modified for a disabled person