derek pringle Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Hi All, Techie help needed please. My wife and I have just returned from a month toddling about France taking with us our electric bikes which we carry on the Thule Euro carrier, tow ball mounted which is altogether a great system. The actual tow bar is the Swift factory fitted option with a removeable ball. The problem is that due to medical problems meaning cycling of any sort is getting really difficult I am considering changing to a scooter carrier and buying a 50cc run around to get us to the local villages and markets etc. From what I have learned so far it seems scooter/motorbike carriers need to be mounted on a flange type tow ball and not the type I have, meaning if i follow this route I will be starting from scratch and having to pay for a new tow bar and then a carrier, then a scooter. I really would like to carry the scooter rather than tow it so I wander if anybody out there knows of a possible solution to my problem that will not be quite as expensive as I have outlined above. Thanks in anticipation of any help. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 In order to receive any kind of helpful response a great deal more information is required. Details of your van including axle weights will be a god starting point. If you do a search on here you will see that in most situations it is very difficult for any sub 3500kgs motorhome to carry a motor scooter legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 sorry Mike, Should have known better, the van is a 2011 Bessacarr 660 maxi on the 4tonne, and also we have had air suspension assist fitted so I think I should be ok, at this stage looking in to the feasability and optional arrangements that may be available. The van is not on an ALKO chassis. thanks derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I would've thought to "carry" a scooter,you would've needed something that had been fabricated and fixed to/braced from, the chassis..?.. ...rather than just something that "fastens to" the towball/hitch...? I would also *assume* that anything purely towball/tow hitch mounted,would(may?) be restricted by "nose weight" limitations..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 sounds like you will be OK in prinicpal Derek... Will a 50cc bike be enough for 2 do you think, have you tried one as I would go to a shop and test ride a few... Also most of these scooter racks need more support then just a tow bar I believe. Pepe spot on on this, it is a difficult subject. saw some superb german racks on this summer trip here is a list of passed threads on the subject...happy reading :-D http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=scooter+tow+bar+racks&author=&days=&Submit=Search Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 pepe63 - 2012-09-27 12:46 PM I would've thought to "carry" a scooter,you would've needed something that had been fabricated and fixed to/braced from, the chassis..?.. ...rather than just something that "fastens to" the towball/hitch...? I would also *assume* that anything purely towball/tow hitch mounted,would(may?) be restricted by "nose weight" limitations..? hi Pepe, yes it does need to be solid. The tow bar on at present is attached to swift chassis extensions and the weight permissable at tow ball is 150kg i am informed. The fabrication as you call it starts fro the basis of having a tow bar of the the flange type ball mounting fitted. The ones fitted by swift are swan neck type.The scooter carrier does not just hang on to the ball. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 Hi Eddie, Thanks for the reading material, I will plough through it. I have been considering the point you make about c.c and yes I will have to try different scooters and sizes if I go down this route. It just seems a lot simpler with 50cc with the legalities etc unless I am missing something, 50cc seems buy and go and anything above that involves tests, something else to look in to. The beloved is small but I make up for her if you get my meaning ha. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 With a 4 tonne chassis you should be OK. As for the kind of racks this site here is a good starting point with pictures to show you the kind of kit that is available. http://www.pwsacc.co.uk/scooter-racks.htm As for scooters I'm afraid I can't help on licensing as I passed my test in 1968 and things have changed since then. However, if the licence issue does not prove to be too much of an issue I would recommend that you get a 125cc scooter as the weight difference between a 50cc and a 125cc is not that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 You can ride a 50cc scooter/moped on a car licence provided you passed your test before all the changes (1996/97) and you can carry a passenger. However, if you don't have a motorcycle full licence, your current licence will act as a provisional m/c licence but you will have to take a CBT plus a further 2 part test before you can ride anything bigger and/or carry a passenger. Also if you intend to use it abroad you have to have a full licence not a provisional. 50cc will struggle 2 up on anything above a slight incline and will be lacking in power to get you out of trouble if you get into it. Average speed with 2up/moped will probably be about 20mph-ok for nipping to shop etc but not for any real distance. If you get a 125cc you will have to carry a breathaliser in France as well. Don't forget when you calculate the weight on your towbar, add in the bike +scooter rack + ramp to get it on the rack unless you get an 'easylifter' type of rack Hope this helps Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 You could try the Sachs MadAss or the Honda Innova. I have the MadAss which is 100Kg, 119cc, & fits nicely into my Benima Garage & as it's tank is in the frame it is very thin. The mirrors are removable so its not tall. About 90-100mpg, about 55mph, 4 stroke. I believe the Innova is similar but taller & wider & maybe slightly heavier, but is a step through bike, so you don't have to get your leg over - so to speak! Both have the advantage of large diameter wheels which I am led to believe are safer than the toy wheels on scooters. I believe that the Innova is also just under 125cc, so you do not need to carry the breathalysers in France for either machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Hi. Regarding engine size,this does of course depend on your combined weight. I am 12 stone and my wife under 10 stone.We have often hired 50cc scooters in Greece when nothing larger was available, and once a 47cc moped in Turkey. OK slow on the hills with two up, but they did get us about alright. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Mike B. - 2012-09-27 2:56 PM Don't forget when you calculate the weight on your towbar, add in the bike +scooter rack + ramp to get it on the rack unless you get an 'easylifter' type of rack You will also have to account for the additional 'leverage' effect with the rack being set at the end of a large overhang - I can't remember the mathematical equation for this but it has been covered on here before (the late Mel E provided some info on it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Another vote for the Honda Innova 125cc. Awesome bike for two-up riding, and only a smidge over 100kgs. We've done over 16,000 kms of utterly fun riding on ours in less than 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Hi All, Thanks for the responses and information,keep it coming. 1/Mike B; are you saying that if I passed my test in 1970,which I did, to ride a scooter in France at 50cc I would still need to pass a test? 2/ From the information given re the power to carry 2 up on a 50cc I think I would definitely need a larger bike. Generally the bike would not be used in this country [never say never] but the primary use would be anticipated to be France/Germany etc. so any legal pointers greatly appreciated. thanks for the help derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Hi Laimeduck, Will definitely include these bikes in my 'to look at list' thanks for the pics derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 We carried a scooter with ease on our last van which had a 3300kg limit. This was a Honda Innova which weighed 105kg, also worth a look is the fairly new Honda Vision, which may be our next buy and weighs 100kg. I agree a 50cc will stuggle on hills two up but people use them so may struggle but will work. As to your original question a new tow bar will certainly be required, their is no rack that will fit on a removable system. Go ahead with this if you can, carrying a scooter transformed our holidays in the van and now miss it. The only thing stopping me at the moment is we have not made up our minds if we are going to keep our new panel van or switch back to a coachbuild but whatever we do a scooter is part of the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Thank you Rupert for this encouraging post. I do like the look of the Honda I must say but there does seem to be a selection of scooter around the same weight[within a kilo or two] that are offered at much cheaper prices. I will test and compare as obviously build quality and reliability may be worth an extra premium. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 The Honda Vision would be my choice. The Innova looks like the old Honda 50's that were around in the 1960's and those wheels would be murder to keep clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Just bought an easylifter hydratrail on e.bay for £495, good price and only used one season. All I need now is a scooter and am following this thread with interest. :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Mike88 - 2012-09-28 12:06 PM The Honda Vision would be my choice. The Innova looks like the old Honda 50's that were around in the 1960's and those wheels would be murder to keep clean. Yeah, but........... The Vision only has 14 inch wheels, the Innova has 17 inch wheels. The smaller the wheels the more unstable/jittery is the handling. The Vision only hasd electric start. The Innova has electric and kickstart. If the Vision battery dies in the middle of nowhere, you're stranded. Vision is seriously nickeable, as young scrotes see them as attractive. The Innova will never get nicked by any self-respecting bike thief! The Innova powertrain is utterly proven over about 8 million previous incarnations. Absolutely bulletproof; and simple as anything to self-maintain, and spares cost tuppence. I guess you pays yer money and takes yer choice..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawcara Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Is the Honda Wave which has a similar box to the Innova, the Innova's replacement. The wave and the vision seem the same bike except one is manual and the other automatic,or am I missing something? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsea Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 we bought a suzuki address 125 a bit like the honda 90 it does us ok. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 derek pringle - 2012-09-28 8:26 AM Hi All, Thanks for the responses and information,keep it coming. 1/Mike B; are you saying that if I passed my test in 1970,which I did, to ride a scooter in France at 50cc I would still need to pass a test? 2/ From the information given re the power to carry 2 up on a 50cc I think I would definitely need a larger bike. Generally the bike would not be used in this country [never say never] but the primary use would be anticipated to be France/Germany etc. so any legal pointers greatly appreciated. thanks for the help derek Hi Derek 1) No! If you passed your test for car in 1970 that would give you entitlement to ride a moped up to 50cc with a passenger and is ok for anywhere in Europe 2) If you want a larger bike (ie over 50cc) you can't ride this on your car licence and would have to do CBT including Theory test and 2 module M/C test (1 off road obstacle course and 1 on road observed riding) You must have this as you cannot ride abroad on a provisional licence 3)If you passed your M/C test in 1970 and your licence still shows A group you can ride anything anywhere. Only legal points are Insurance, helmet, breathaliser (if over 125cc) and from next year reflective band in France. You need to carry all docs with you as well. I would suggest you get something bigger than 50cc if you intend to ride 2up though as it has to be restricted to about 25mph to qualify as a moped. Thus you don't have enough Uumph to get out of any predicament. Hope this explains better Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Just reading through some of these posts and people generally going for Honda. Must say IMHO I would suggest you go for a Jap, although they are a bit more expensive, they are a lot better than the Chinese ones which I admit look good but don't seem as well made or powerful as the Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha (I've got my tin helmet on ready for the replies to that!!) I ride a Suzuki and it's virtually bulletproof Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Just reading through some of these posts and people generally going for Honda. Must say IMHO I would suggest you go for a Jap, although they are a bit more expensive, they are a lot better than the Chinese ones which I admit look good but don't seem as well made or powerful as the Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha (I've got my tin helmet on ready for the replies to that!!) I ride a Suzuki and it's virtually bulletproof Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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