The perils of Payload and GVW / MAM

[Tracker]

A salutary warning to one and all of the perils of axle weights and payloads.

 

Our Cheyenne 603 LB is plated at 3500 kg which is 1850 kg front axle and 2000 kg rear axle.

 

The stated miro is 3110 + 30 kg for the SE pack = 3140 kg, to include the driver, 90% fuel and water and two full gas bottles leaving a theoretical payload of 360 kg.

 

From this theoretical payload deduct the weight of the extra battery, satellite system, spare wheel and jack, solar panel, inverter and microwave which is about 90 kg in total, plus the weight of Dot and Rosie at 90 kg to arrive at a usable payload of 180 kg. Which ain't a lot!

 

However, Autotrail seem to have taken full advantage of the 5% +/- tolerance for MIRO because whilst the actual MIRO should be3140 kg it is in fact 3290 - which is 1550 kg front and 1740 kg rear.

 

Add in the fitted items at 90 kg, passengers at 90 kg and luggage etc, chairs, bbq, odds and ends etc at about 230 kg and we arrive at the actual laden weight of around 3700 kg

 

Fully laden for a long trip it weighed in (with us all aboard) at 3750 kg which is 1600 kg front and 2150 kg rear. I took off the rear corner steadies (never use 'em), replaced a 13 kg Calor with a 6 kg Calorlite, and removed some odds and ends to get back to 3700 kg. However that 3700 kg comprised 1580 front and a still overweight 2120 kg rear axle.

 

I can replate to 3700 kg via SVTech and DVLA for a cost of £288.

 

If I add air suspension at a diy cost of £350 ish (Marcle leisure) SVTech can replate to 3850 kg but the axle limits remain at 1850 kg and 2000 kg.

 

If I then replace the 109 load index 1030 kg each rear tyres with 112 load index 1120 kg each SVTech will replate to the same 3850 with axle weights at 1850 front and 2240 rear which is more like it.

 

With replating above 3500 kg the VED goes down by £50 a year but I need a medical which I will have to pay for at age 70 (less than 2 years time) which as things stand should not be a problem.

 

With care we could probably reload to within the 3700 kg limit but if I am to keep the axle weights within limits I need to go to 2240 kg on the rear axle - but even that probably rules out hanging a couple of bikes on the back.

 

Out of interest, has anyone ever been stopped and check weighed by VOSA or their foreign counterparts? If so what do they check - is it just GVW/MAM or do they check individual wheel and/or axle weights?

 

If you want to add all the mod cons and carry a decent selection of bikes, toys and odds and ends look for a van with at least 500 kg payload.

[kelly58]

On the road from Calais to Rouen sorry cannot remember road No but on the large roundabout just past the airfield with the Sabre Jet as gate warden outside Abbeville they are constructing a weighbridge and what we would call a VOSA vehicle check point , so it looks like our French cousins in the authorities are about to get tough with vehicle weights . When ever I have been checked in a HGV by VOSA its a drive over weigh ramp which weighs each axle which they then check against the plating certificate then they also total the weights to ensure you are not exceeding your gross weight , they take no prisoners I got a fixed penalty of £120 for an incorrect entry on my tacho which was really a slap on the wrist offence ,but the nice man thought it better to fine me he must have been having a bad day which certainly made mine a worse one.

[Cliffy]

Went through a similar process with our Tracker and had to loose 60kg off the rear axle and dumped all non essentials but even now when we set off to go on a months tour of France etc with a full fridge and a full tank of fuel we will still be over weight for the first few dates. So I would be interested to here from anyone who has been stopped and weighed by VOSA. Do they make you off load something by the roadside? If so how would she get Home :-)

[Wooie]

Hi Rich.

 

Over the years i`ve been pulled numerous times by VOSA

 

Mainly in wagons but only twice in the motorhome.

 

Every one i`ve ever done has been a " Rolling Weighbridge " basically a plate

approx 2 ft wide that you drive over steady and slowly the VOSA official will walk

with you and tell you the speed to go at.

 

The official will first of all make a note of your axle weights from the plate.

 

If you look over to the office there is a " Readout " on the out side which flashes

up first the front axle weight then the rear axle / axles weight then shows a total.

 

If everything is OK you get your " Weighbridge ticket " and away you go and the

ticket is valid for 24 hours.

 

All the " Naughty " ones are pulled to one side and thoroughly chastised !!

 

Regards.

 

Graham.

 

 

[Mel B]

So how come oh great wise one, knowing what you know from this 'ere forum, did you end up with a van with such a cr*p payload???? ;-) :D

[Mel B]

To be more serious though, it is not uncommon now to hear that checks are being carried out in the UK near major motorhome shows - this was definitely the case recently (somewhere near the Shepton show I seem to recall) so I'd be concerned about the UK too, not just abroad.

 

We had a similar situation to you with our Rimor, but as we already had a heavy duty twin RWD Transit chassis increasing the MAM and axle weights wasn't a problem so it would definitely have just been a paper exercise to get it up to 3850kg. However, when considering whether to do it or not, we asked ourselves if we really wanted to have to accept the limitions/requirements that it would then place on us and wanted to keep the 'van. In the end we decided it wasn't what we wanted, hence why we changed vans.

 

It seems like a lot of expense and hassle with some limitations still on what you can do if you only uprate to 3700kg and don't go for the 'full Monty' of 3850kg. If I was in your position I'd be thinking very carefully of what I really want/how I want to motorhome for the next few years ... especially at your age! :D ;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Been there got the "T" shirt and now a trailer ;-)

[pepe63xnotuse]

Yeah but you haven't only just bought yours... (lol)

[Tracker]

Mel B - 2012-09-27 5:42 PM

 

So how come oh great wise one, knowing what you know from this 'ere forum, did you end up with a van with such a cr*p payload???? ;-) :D

 

Four reasons Mel.

 

1 I thought that 390 kg payload would just about be OK - and it would have been but for -

 

2 I didn't bargain on the vans MIRO being 5% overweight unloaded - gee thanks Autotrail.

 

3 I didn't bargain for so much weight on the rear axle - even fully laden I have some 250 kg 'spare' capacity on the front axle at the expense of the rear axle which is then well over the limit.

 

4 I did not realise the weight implications of everything fitted on the van given it's tail heavy nature which you would never guess from seeing it as it sits tail high even fully laden.

 

So I submit to the team for their consideration the philosophy that it's easy to get caught out when a van otherwise has all the gizmos and ticks all the boxes for layout and livability.

 

[Mel B]

Tracker - 2012-09-27 7:08 PM

 

So I submit to the team for their consideration the philosophy that it's easy to get caught out when a van otherwise has all the gizmos and ticks all the boxes for layout and livability.

 

So basically, you went starry-eyed over something snazzy with a bit of class and a pert looking bottom ... but didn't think of the implications of having such a thing ... !!!! A bit like blokes who lust after super models!!!! :D (lol)

[Tracker]

Mel B - 2012-09-27 7:19 PM

 

Tracker - 2012-09-27 7:08 PM

 

So I submit to the team for their consideration the philosophy that it's easy to get caught out when a van otherwise has all the gizmos and ticks all the boxes for layout and livability.

 

So basically, you went starry-eyed over something snazzy with a bit of class and a pert looking bottom ... but didn't think of the implications of having such a thing ... !!!! A bit like blokes who lust after super models!!!! :D (lol)

 

You could say that Mel - but already being married to a super model (wedding anniversary today, and yes I did remember!) I kinda got in the habit!

[pepe63xnotuse]

Tracker - 2012-09-27 7:08 PM

 

.... even fully laden I have some 250 kg 'spare' capacity on the front axle at the expense of the rear axle which is then well over the limit.

 

 

Although we're not overloaded(as replated to 3850kg by previous owner),we're in a *similiar* situation,with 290kg "spare" on the front axle... :-S

I think I've said before,that its' a pity the likes of Fiamma/Omnistor don't do front boxes.. (lol)

[mike 202]

Had the same problem with my wagon, came back from france/Spain with lots of wine etc, but kept carefully within the payload published by the manufacturer. So when I got home I read about the possibility of repercussions for being over the 3500kg's, off I went without unloading to my nearest weighbridge and got a reading of 3650. I was not too worried as I thought that the weighing my little 3500kg verses 40 ton (40,000kg) truckes would produce a not too accurate reading. I am lucky that there was another weighbridge within 10 miles, so off immediatly for second weight check, well the 2 readings were within 10kg of each other. By the way the weighbridge readings showed that neither of the axles Front maximum1750-rear 2200, were near their individual limits

Next being thoroughly "not amused" I rang the manufacturer A/S who kindly agreed to weigh it for me. The result was 4% over i.e. 120 kg. It appears that the layout that I chose with 4 belted seats and the associated extra seating and ironmongery, rather than 2 bench seats, contributed significantly to the overweight.Plus and although supplied as I believe standard on Ford chassis the spare wheel

So we have suffered since and have to run without any water 1 x 6kg Calorlite and our kit reduced to a minimum. My advice is choose carefull and specify that the payload, not including the mystical 5% tolerance, is a dealbreaker and insist that the van that you are being supplied with is taken to a weighbridge before the deal is completed.

You may not get away with it but it is at least worth a try.

For me though, bottom line I love the wagon and I have learnt to live with the limitations.

Mike

[Corky 8]

Hi Rich, This is a subject which should be aired frequently, it is something I,m always conscious of as it is a law which you can easily fall foul of. My M/H chassis has a plated gross weight of 3800kgs yet the axle limits on the Vin plate read Front axle 1750 rear axle 2240. on my calculator comes up with total of 3990 kgs ??. Taking the M/H across a weighbridge with all fluids filled ,diesel, fresh water tank full, hot water boiler full, plus all the items we would need when touring France for weeks, it came out at gross weight 3780kgs, front axle 1460 kgs rear axle 2320 kgs, over weight on the back axle by 80kgs,( but under full load overall) my answer is to run without the fresh water tank filled as 1 litre of water weights 1kg and my fresh water tank holds 90 litre,s further to that I took the rarely used tow bar off that saved another 50kgs . but like most owners I add items which I think will be handy without thinking about the weight aspect.

There has been occasions here on the A75 Dumfries to Stranraer Rd where Police have had a VOSA van and equipment in a lay by, pulling in Mainly HGV,s but a report in the local rag said they had stopped and recovered number of Stolen Caravan,s and Motorhomes En route to Ireland, but no mention of any warnings or fines imposed on overweight vehicles. I have also passed with trepidation French type Vosa vehicle check area,s with being stopped, I have heard tales of people being stopped and told to remove the excess weight before being allowed to drive on ,but never met anyone who has been stopped, I think they have to have strong suspicion/indication that your overwight to pull you over. the only way is regular weighbridge visits at £12 it wont break the bank but could save you more. tell the weighbridge operator you want to know the Axle weights but only want a ticket for whole vehilce weight (for which you pay) they normally oblige. Safe Journeys.

[colin]

I've said it before, I'm less than impressed with manufacturers building vans on the cheapest chassis they think they can get away with, IMO anything other than the shortest CB should be built on an L4 chassis which has the same axle limits as our PVC 2.1/2.4

[pepe63xnotuse]

Corky 8 - 2012-09-27 8:52 PM

... My M/H chassis has a plated gross weight of 3800kgs yet the axle limits on the Vin plate read Front axle 1750 rear axle 2240. on my calculator comes up with total of 3990 kgs ??....

 

It's usual for the sum of the two axles to be greater than the gross weight...it "supposed" to allow a greater degree of "flexiblity" when it come load distribution...

 

Although we have got loads spare on the front,we've only 60 odd kgs on the back..and that's with just 2 of us in a 4 berth ,"none garage" van(..and with no bikes or scooter lashed to the back..).

[dwaviation]

I was caught out the same way when we bought our motorhome. The three vans I had looked at were all based on a 3300 chassis but right at the last moment my other half decided to go for the low profile model... No problem I thought until I realised (much) later that this was the only van on a 3000 plate... compounded massively by the rear kitchen layout (and those fridges are heavy). I uprated with SVA to 3200 wih an increase of 100 kgs on my rear axle (offset by an extra 30kgs of airride).

 

I ended up building a huge shelf over the cab area so I could get the weight forward onto the unused front axle. I still have to watch that rear end weight though and we are within single fingures to our max weight

[Mel B]

At King George dock in Hull there is a free weighbridge which you can use - you just go to the main dock gates and ask to use it. Obviously you don't get a printed sheet, but you can still check it for yourself. This is how we found out how close to the limit our Rimor was (we used to use the free one which was on the approach to the North side of the Humber Bridge until it was closed).

 

The following is a list of weighbridges that I've just found on the web:

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/10%20212a.pdf

[Mel B]

Just thought of a song to go with this thread ...

 

"She ain't heavy, she's my Mother" ... MAM ... geddit????!!!! :D :D :D :D (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol)

[maggyd]

Well Im glad Ive read all this as I always thought my O.H was being overcautious when he tells me " If we are stopped and weighed its all your clothes that are being left at the side of the road" :$

we never travel with more than maybe a 1/4 tank of water on board, I know its a waste dumping fresh water but we never stay at places we cant fill up with enough to last us while we are there, also he isnt keen on me taking lots of tinned stuff :-S just in case we need it !! we have never been caught out without enough to make a meal and have enough in the fridge for sandwich,s and loads of salad.

 

And this because the solar panel, satellite watsits bike rack on tow bar chairs etc; and all the other necessary equipment must have us very near if not over the limit he is allowed on his license !! now I have another two years before I come of age !! but it doesnt really matter does it if we are over the plated allowance. Never mind like Mel we have survived with this van now the next one !! I wonder??

 

:-D

[maggyd]

 

 

Sorry double post!!

[kelly58]

Our Nuevo II EK was rated @ 3300 and when we 1st went fully loaded to France with less than half tank of water and half tank of diesel we were just under by 20kgs , so we had the uplift done by SVTec to 3500 . As the Nuevo is a short motorhome I could not see the need for the rear steadies , so I removed them and was amazed by their weight the two steadies were heavier than one of our bikes this has lessened the rear axle loading somewhat.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Mel B - 2012-09-27 5:42 PM

 

So how come oh great wise one, knowing what you know from this 'ere forum, did you end up with a van with such a cr*p payload???? ;-) :D

 

Indeed.......Not surprised though we couldn't find a suitable UK van. In 2007 when we decided to get a CB finding one that would carry a family and gear within 3500kg (diabetic) was very difficult. The EuraMobil we eventually bought had the best usable payload in principle, I was pleasantly surprised when I got it home and took straight to weighbridge that it was slightly better than on paper, so it worked reasonably well for the 4 years we had it, but we were always at max or slightly over for main holidays...

 

as for carrying large stocks of food stuffs etc... My mate even carries all his own drinks and bottled water! as his wife does not trust foreign stuff.....the mind boggles! :-D

 

Panel vans somewhat easier to live with. most German vans have a 400kg + payload even at 3300kg and they certainly drive better fully loaded. I nearly went for a 3500kg van but dealer said not to bother and he was right.....

 

have seen UK panel vans with poor payloads even at 3500kg so watch out!

 

I feel sure if I went through Trackers van I could jetson lots of unnecessary kit......Starting with spare wheel and jack and tool kits.

 

 

 

[rupert123]

I am alway surprised when this subject comes up from experienced travellors. is well known that all C/B vans suffer from the problem of getting load on the front axle unless you have a large overcab section. I also wonder what the hell some of you carry around. In our last van we had a payload of 515kg but still managed to carry a 105kg scooter on the back and keep within, just, our rear axle limits.

[Guest pelmetman]

rupert123 - 2012-09-28 9:36 AM

 

I am alway surprised when this subject comes up from experienced travellors.

 

I'm not 8-).........................we have been at it for over 20 years and didn't realize how overweight we were until we joined this forum ;-)

 

Now lost a lot of weight and redistributed the heavy stuff :D