Shire Conversions

[Paul M Who]

Can anyone here give me any feedback on Shire Conversions.? I am interested in their Phoenix 3 on a Ducato basic LWB van. I have only been able to fine one review on line.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Can't help with feedback, but I found two Phoenix 3 reviews"

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/userfiles/file/WMH%20historic%20road%20tests/Shire%20Phoenix%203.pdf

 

http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/review/motorhome/2010-shire-conversions-phoenix-3

 

There's also a summary review of the Phoenix M here

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Motorhomes/Reviews/Motorhomes/Motorhome-review-Shire-Phoenix-M/_ch1_rw1181_pg1

[Paul M Who]

Thanks Derek.

 

I had read the first one already and now I've read the other two reviews you mentioned. All three have good reports on Shire.

I was hoping for someone who actually owns one to add to the mix.

They don't appear to be listed as exhibitors at the NEC Caravan & Motorhome Show this month.

I'll be there to check out the new 2013 models and will be ordering something for delivery next April.

Shire includes a comprehensive list of standard features - features that other makes list as extra cost options.

This is rather incongruous as the Fiat Ducato base vehicle now come with air con, fog lights, Blue&Me Tomtom sat nav with steering wheel controls, wheel trims, an reversing sensor as standard.

There are a lot of MH manufacturers who still list some or all of these as extra cost options.

 

 

[crinklystarfish]

You should go and talk to them and make a judgement regarding their attitude and workmanship. Have a look at their work in progress and ask them about why they do things the way they do.

Owner feedback may or may not be helpful.

And I wouldn't be impressed simply based on a list of bling. The fundamentals are more important.

[Derek Uzzell]

Exhibiting at the NEC is expensive and small-volume converters may well consider it doesn't justify the cost, never mind tying up personnel on an exhibition stand when they could be building motorhomes.

 

I was going to suggest that you might try asking about Shire on the larger MotorHomeFacts forum, but I note this was done fairly recently and attracted no owner feedback. Perhaps owners of Shire motorhomes use them a lot and don't spend time on motorhomr forums - who knows?

[Guest JudgeMental]

crinklystarfish - 2012-10-02 8:29 AMYou should go and talk to them and make a judgement regarding their attitude and workmanship. Have a look at their work in progress and ask them about why they do things the way they do.

Owner feedback may or may not be helpful.

And I wouldn't be impressed simply based on a list of bling. The fundamentals are more important.

Paul is in Australia I believe and planning a European tripI am a big fan of panel van conversions and have never heard of these.....Is a 6 M van a LWB? longest is 636 M and a better length for long term living

[Derek Uzzell]

JudgeMental - 2012-10-02 12:09 PM

crinklystarfish - 2012-10-02 8:29 AMYou should go and talk to them and make a judgement regarding their attitude and workmanship. Have a look at their work in progress and ask them about why they do things the way they do.

Owner feedback may or may not be helpful.

And I wouldn't be impressed simply based on a list of bling. The fundamentals are more important.

Paul is in Australia I believe and planning a European tripI am a big fan of panel van conversions and have never heard of these.....Is a 6 M van a LWB? longest is 636 M and a better length for long term living

You asked about Paul's requirement for a 6m maximum length in the thread relating to his earlier enquiry:http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=28077&posts=22The Shire Phoenix was also mentioned in that thread. The Phoenix 3 model Paul is interested in is 5.99m long, though there is a "3XL" variant built on the 6.36m chassis. Shire website herehttp://www.shiremotorhomes.co.uk/motorhomerange.htmlThe company is located at Ferrybridge not too far east of Leeds.

[crinklystarfish]

JudgeMental - 2012-10-02 12:09 PM

crinklystarfish - 2012-10-02 8:29 AMYou should go and talk to them and make a judgement regarding their attitude and workmanship. Have a look at their work in progress and ask them about why they do things the way they do.

Owner feedback may or may not be helpful.

And I wouldn't be impressed simply based on a list of bling. The fundamentals are more important.

Paul is in Australia I believe and planning a European tripI am a big fan of panel van conversions and have never heard of these.....Is a 6 M van a LWB? longest is 636 M and a better length for long term living

Ah, so he is. Probably better off with a well known and reputable brand then. No disrespect intended to Shire. Second guessing now, but if the 'van is to be used for a euro-trip resale value is probably a factor. Way better in these circumstances with a well known euro brand that uses the usual stuff from the Dometic family.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I totally agree......some great bargains in Germany with present exchange rate

[candc]

I actually paid Shire a visit not so long back along with Vantage as both are quite close to us and we were looking into a ducato van conversion.

 

Shire are a small operator at the moment but i found them very accommodating and happy to talk about any changes we would want to make to layouts etc.....How did they compare to Vantage and others ?.........very well in my opinion, the build quality was just as good (virtually identicle furniture to Vantage) with a massive choice of fabric colours, and a similar spec van from Vantage (without bartering) would be at least 8 grand more 8-)

 

I must stress i have no connection with either company, but did spend a long time checking ALL the (ducato converters out) with a view to buying new, and Shire were well up the list.

 

We then bought a Dethleffs globebus i3 (lol)

 

cheers

[colin]

Have seen Shires at several shows, the layout IMO offered no advantage over Twin style for our purposes so brought a Campscout.

p.s. come to think of it, was pretty much the worse use of space I've seen in a PVC, mel's Accent has similier rear with dinette up front, the shire loses dinette but seems to have little extra to replace it.

[Paul M Who]

Thanks guy for the feedback.

Judge you are right the Euro vans offer substantial value for money and I wouldn't even be considering a UK built van if it wasn't for the fact that the Euro makers just can't build a "Noah's Arc version "I keep telling the rabbits only two only two".

Despite some of the comments the front dinette takes up 25% of the available space in a van and offers virtually no storage space. The under bench seat area is usually where all the leisure batteries and major electrical gear goes. No space for anything else.

Besides for a long trip I want somewhere to lounge and be comfortable. Sitting at the kitchen table is OK for breakfast and dinner but it is useless as a comfort zone. And what's the point of having 4 belted seats in a van that designed, built and sold as a TWO BERTH motorhome.

After traveling with this layout for 5 weeks earlier this year it was enough to learn that this just wasn't the layout for a long term trip.

There is no grill, even the Transit CI coachbuilt Margie and I traveled around Europe and North Africa in back in the late 70's had a cooktop with a grill. I guess the Euros spend most evenings eating out on their trips. Because the manufactures try to get as much usable space in their design the dinettes is, from what I saw on our trip, a knee knocker. Even with the swivel passenger seat pushed all the way back there is barely enough room to squeeze your legs under the table.

That was in a Karmann Dexter/Davis. The wardrobe was less than 6" wide and had the front single bed insert taking up what space there was - Two jackets and a couple of shirts and it was maxed out.

One draw for knives/forks/spoons and other cooking utensils, a cupboard below the sink for bottled water and crockery and a narrow cupboard above the kitchen area for all our food.

We had to keep the pots and pans in a plastic crate under the rear bed along with two suitcases with the balance of our clothes and shoes as only the underwear, socks, T-shirt and tops would fit in the over bed lockers. Ad the power reel, wheel chocks, loo chemicals, safety gear etc etc.

Not happy Jan.

The rear lounge/dinette is the best layout for us. The bed linen stows easily in the locker over the cab.The dinette table doubles as an outside table. There is a real wardrobe and pantry and enough space beneath the settees to store water bottles, extra non perishable food and shoes. A Charlie Box or false panel at the back of the U-Shaped lounge with access from the back of the van for cables, chocks and raincoats etc. And you can open the rear doors and enjoy the outlook from the comfort of a lounge chair instead of having to sit upright like a Lord on a country privy in your front dinette.

I will be at the NEC show on the 17^th Oct to check out ALL the van conversions as it is very difficult to gauge the real layout via pics and words. I will also be take the time to drive up the Ferrybridge to look over Shire's factory and chat to Darryl about his product. We won't be taking delivery till April next year and this trip is to speak face to face with the manufacturer and inspect their models. It gives whoever we chose plenty of time to build it to the required spec.

 

I'm not gullible enough to be taken in by the bling, but when I read in the British Motoring Press that Fiat Professional is now supplying the bog standard Ducato LWB with the Comfort Pack as standard equipment ( Air conditioning, fog lights, Blue&Me steering wheel controls, TomTom satnav in a purpose built dash cradle, wheel trims, reversing sensor and Eco Drive software package) and Motorhome manufacturers are listing some or all of these as extra cost options I get a little suspicious. Or when Renault will fit a recommended car alarm as OE for $200 and the MH sales brochure lists it at $250 it doesn't bode well.

 

So if any of you at at the NEC on the17^th I love to meet you for a chat about all thing MH. I'll be the guy with the strange smile and the laconic accent – or is that the other way around. Well I am from Australia and we do everything arse about face downunder.

 

Thanks again for all the input it has been most helpful. I look forward to seeing you somewhere on my travels.

 

[crinklystarfish]

Paul M Who - 2012-10-03 1:42 AM ...I'm not gullible enough to be taken in by the bling, but when I read in the British Motoring Press that Fiat Professional is now supplying the bog standard Ducato LWB with the Comfort Pack as standard equipment ( Air conditioning, fog lights, Blue&Me steering wheel controls, TomTom satnav in a purpose built dash cradle, wheel trims, reversing sensor and Eco Drive software package) and Motorhome manufacturers are listing some or all of these as extra cost options I get a little suspicious...

Many are lured in by shiny trinkets and free this-and-that and end up with chocolate sprinkles on doggy do; often blissfully obliviously. Clearly not the case in this instance, no disrespect intended.

It looks like the driving force at Shire has experience of bespoke 'van conversions going back a while which lends the firm some credibility. Fair to say there are very many panel van converters in the UK and the quality of workmanship ranges from dire to alright.

You really do need to make your own judgement (see above re chocolate sprinkles). 

I suspect you've thought about it, but if you are on the road in Europe for a while you'd be well served by diesel heater / compressor fridge to reduce reliance on LPG. Bottles take up a lot of space and unless you go for a refillable system compatibility could be an issue. One way round this would be a refillable chassis mounted bulk tank.

Don't know if the layout would fit with your needs but one of the time-and-again-proven genuinely capable travel (as opposed to holiday) 'vans is the Murvi Morello (or siblings).

[colin]

I think you've missed the point.

The rear lounge on a P3 is no bigger (if not smaler) than the front lounge/dinette on our Campscout or a twin, we use both front and rear bed for lounging, often one in each, which gives twice as much space than a P3. In the case of our Campscout apart from intrusion of seat frame the entire underseat is availible for storage, the batery and electrics are under cab seats, the total storage in our van is massive, one area alone being approx 2cu.metre. Our van is a 3 berth altough we have slept 4 at times, but thats not relavent to you. Our van is RHD. We carry twice as much gas as P3 and 50% more water. We have a much bigger shower/washroom. We have a bigger fridge. O.K. some of these are because of being XLWB but many still apply to Twin. It's all about design.

I can understand some people prefer the rear lounge some vans offer, but I think there's bigger and better ones about than the P3, in fact when you realise the P3 has a slihgtly smaller bed than a Twin it makes you wonder where all the space has gone. For your purposes I'd look at a Devon Aztec LWB or similier which offers 50% bigger rear lounge.

[Paul M Who]

Thank god for the internet, sites like this and more importantly people willing to pass on their experiences freely.

One of my specs is the LPG refillable gas tank. Diesel heater and compressor fridge are also there as well. We had the diesel heater in the Karmann and it worked well.

I like the Murvi vans but a bed in the doorway is not my cuppa java.

 

I've done a lot of homework on sites like this as well as read all the reviews I can find. I've even spoken to owners of various brands. But nothing beats seeing reality in the metal and picking the brains of sales folk and haggling for the best possible deal. Shows seem to be the best place for this because they can't hide behind sales brochures and flashy webdesigns. The reasonably astute buyer with adequate research can spot the impostors at twenty paces.

 

If I could get a Karmann, Adria or Possl in left hand drive with the IH/Vantage/Shire layout I'd be traipsing around Germany and not Birmingham in two weeks time. I could probably live with no oven/grill or have it and the LPG tank retro fitted by someone like Rhino back in the UK with the money I'd save.

That doesn't mean I'm penny pinching as the spec includes the 180 multijet 3 litre engine and Comfortmatic gearbox. This is what we had in the Karmann renter and it was absolutely brilliant.

The fuel consumption was between 7-9lt/100km, which averages out at over 35mpg in ye olde ancient measuring system.

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

(lol) ..."..picking the brains of sales folk...." Bl**dy hell Paul!....THAT wouldn't take you too long!...It's a pity they don't do half-day tickets because you'd be home by lunch time... (lol)

 

We haven't been to the NEC(or another)show for a few years now but the last time we went,I poked about some of the "more affordable" examples of PVCs..and to be honest I was quite disappointed how some apppeared to be little more than "tidy(ish) self-builds"...and certainly not 35-40k plus vehicles,as they were at that time... :-S

Admittedly,we didn't go with a "shopping list" as such...

(.. and the "show" vehicle that impressed me the most at the time, was the Westfalia Westvan...twinwheel Ford coachbuilt...)

[Guest JudgeMental]

for a start I dont like the open cell insulation Shire use as it will attract moisture IMO, quality manufacturers use close cell. Have never understood the attraction of the rear lounge set up, the reason they are not that popular in europe is that they are plain daft in a panel van size vehicle. UK vans tend to have small tanks and gas storage to help with payload as construction poor and old fashioned. The Murvi has a 300kg payload @ 3500kg? pathetic IMO, so where is all this weight coming from I wonder...My van if it was 3500kg would have a 600 kg payload.

 

after 3 longish trips now I am glad I stuck with the manual 2.3 130bhp. more then enough power, and touring you spend most of you time in top gear so for me an auto a waste of money. Did not like the 6 speed box at first but once it loosened up its fine

 

Globecar/Possl have a new french bed model the 636 FR, the bed is king size, flips up to accommodate bikes or even a scooter. masses of storage,500kg payload, two areas, nice open feel and bed is a proper lounging area which can be used like a sofa

 

panoramic:

 

http://www.duemo-duelmen.de/herstellermarken/poessl/d-line/636-fr_132.html

 

photos:

 

http://www.womoverkauf.ch/verkauf-campingbusse/globecar-fr-636/index.php

 

Like Pepe says..we went to Excel show and had a look at most of these UK vans and they mostly have a very amateurish finish. This video shows the Possl/Globecar build, not a piece of carpet on the walls to be seen anywhere! *-)

 

 

La Strada do a rear lounge van. these are best vans available with prices to match

 

http://www.lastrada-mobile.de/

[Paul M Who]

Why the need for two separate lounge areas when one will suffice. One person on either side of the rear lounge is more than adequate. We usually lounge on the lounge and sleep in the bed. And if one want to go to bed earlier than the other there are two perfectly good and comfortable cab chairs to lounge in.

When you add up the orthogonal dimensions that come with the extra length of the XLWB, there's your2cu metres right there. It's not some ingenious design feature. Take away the front dinette completely and there is enough space for a floor to roof wardrobe and pantry in the vacant space and still room to turn the front seat around.

And yes the bathroom is bigger, only because it sticks out into the living space and has all the problems that go with a +6 foot flexible tambour sliding screen. The only reason they have done that is to gain more leg room for the front dinette – the Achilles heal of all front dinette designs.

It all about the design.

The water tanks on the P3 are smaller but then we usually use Camp facilities – that's what you pay for –most of the Motorhomers we saw in our travels did the same.

We'll be getting an bigger LPG gas tank so that's not an issue. The 50% bigger lounge/bed comes at the expense of extra floor to roof space and is only of benefit if your body can't fit across the 6' 3” of an east/west bed. Fortunately that's no an problem.

I will be looking at the Aztec in Birmingham – it's on the short list.

 

In fact the MWB lounge/bed in the LWB van gives you an extra 20” of storage space. A floor to roof cupboard on the off side and an extended kitchen benchtop with an extra cupboard beneath on the near side.

Now that's design.

[Paul M Who]

I looked at the La Strada models and liked the Avanti E until I used the Konfigerator and the price ended up 60,000 and change. That close to 50 grand in GBP. The Fano took my fancy too but I'm not sure about the Renault Master and the narrowness of the interior, though I have 3 on my shortlist. Again the config price was very little shrapnel short of 60 G's.

 

La Strada has 8 second-hand Fano's for sale direct from the factory for those interested.

They're what's left of the 12 that did the Camp Challenge around Southern Africa earlier in the year.

Factory warranty till Dec 2013 and you'll get 100 euro change from 40,000.

The spec is not bad either.

125hp motor, 6 speed manual, Silver metallic, parking sensor, towbar, Techno and Comfort packs, awning, compressor fridge, 150Ah leisure battery, Combi 6 diesel heating, window in the bathroom, Remis cab blinds, Heki over the bed, rear view camera with Pioneer 7"lcd screen dvd/radio,bluetooth handsfree, outdoor shower, SOG toilet vent, 90 watt solar panel, and a safe.

All the goodies and worth 60 grand new. The only catch is they have all done 20,000 kms.

 

If anyone is interested let me know and I post the contact details.

 

[colin]

I fully accept we all have diferent needs

Paul M Who - 2012-10-03 10:43 AMWhy the need for two separate lounge areas when one will suffice. One person on either side of the rear lounge is more than adequate. We usually lounge on the lounge and sleep in the bed. And if one want to go to bed earlier than the other there are two perfectly good and comfortable cab chairs to lounge in.

For yourselves maybe, we like a bit more comfort, and find two sepperate lounging areas meet our needs.

When you add up the orthogonal dimensions that come with the extra length of the XLWB, there's your2cu metres right there. It's not some ingenious design feature. Take away the front dinette completely and there is enough space for a floor to roof wardrobe and pantry in the vacant space and still room to turn the front seat around.

I did say ONE storage space, so thats not where the large storage comes from, the XLWB also gives a much larger bed than P3 and more overhead lockers.

And yes the bathroom is bigger, only because it sticks out into the living space and has all the problems that go with a +6 foot flexible tambour sliding screen.

The type of tambour door used has over many year proven to be no problem on other models

The only reason they have done that is to gain more leg room for the front dinette – the Achilles heal of all front dinette designs.

It all about the design.

The water tanks on the P3 are smaller but then we usually use Camp facilities – that's what you pay for –most of the Motorhomers we saw in our travels did the same.

We'll be getting an bigger LPG gas tank so that's not an issue.

We too looked at getting tank, but decided in end for us it wasn't worth it, for you on extended trips I think it's the way to go.

The 50% bigger lounge/bed comes at the expense of extra floor to roof space and is only of benefit if your body can't fit across the 6' 3” of an east/west bed. Fortunately that's no an problem.

As I've posted before, we hired a transverse bed model and it was a disarter, gf suffered badly with claustrophobia when using this, not a problem she had in our old T25, or even the Toyota poptop we hired in Oz

I will be looking at the Aztec in Birmingham – it's on the short list.

 

In fact the MWB lounge/bed in the LWB van gives you an extra 20” of storage space. A floor to roof cupboard on the off side and an extended kitchen benchtop with an extra cupboard beneath on the near side.

Now that's design.

Whilst I pointed you at this make/model (and similier) there are several aspects of thier design that we distinctly dislike, but as I always say "we're all different"

[Guest JudgeMental]

The Renault not a great base vehicle for a camper. the box shape Fiat much better. I have sat in all these over 2 days at Dusseldorf show, so have a fair idea. Laid on the beds for a good while, sat on the toilets etc... to the amusement of the Germans. As for these rear lounge set ups being comfortable!lol have sat in these also, they may work in a CB but far from comfortable. This may be the exception...

 

note the rear seat belts.

 

La Strada avanti H is the one with rear lounge and drop down bed about 40k or 37K for low millage one. the avanti E also a rear lounge. The avanti C exclusive my favorite van...

 

http://tinyurl.com/9rlggeu

 

 

 

[Paul M Who]

Thanks for that Judge.

 

It the same layout as the 2013 NEW Karmann Dexter with the H3 high roof and the pull down bed over the rear dinette.

Now if I could get that with the stupid high bed removed along with the belted seats and seat back that didn't cover half the windows it might be a real proposition.

Oh and a driver's seat that could turn around as well.

 

Been there done that and Karmann said 'you vill take it like dis und like it ja'  

Nein Danke!

 

Boy if Colin's girlfriend got claustrophobic in a normal rear bed I hate to think of the consequences of getting into that one.

 

According to the description it's a 2011 Euro 4 ex-rental. With only 5000 km's!

Seems a bit odd for something that was first registered in March this year and on the rental market for the last 6 months.

The Karmann Dexter I hired in April this year was a Euro 5 and it was a March registration as well. It was brand new.

It had 900 km on the clock when I picked it up and over 6,000 when I returned it 5 weeks later.

Seems a bit sus to me.

 

Love the site though I do a lot of trawling for information here.

[Guest JudgeMental]

probably not hire model. demo/showroom more likely...or a return

 

If I was spending 12 months in a van I would want to get it right... have you considered a bigger used CB. You have to remember European weather pretty dire most of the time.

[Paul M Who]

Not really into CB's.

I've seen what a rearender looks like on a German motorway. Believe me it's not a pretty sight. When you're crawling past at a snails pace because of all the rubber-neckers and emergency vehicles accessing the crash site from your side of the motorway you get to inspect the damage pretty thoroughly.

 

As far as the weather is concerned, we'll be spending the 6 months most of the time in the South of France and Southern Italy.

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Summer no problem, Scandinavia have nice but short summers also. For winter choice much more limited its only Spain and Sicily I think....But with a proper 4 season van you can go anywhere

 

I agree would never go back to a CB