Pete-B Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hi, What should I expect to pay for a first habitation service on a E460 Bessie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Nothing.................Save your money and do it yourself. But if under warranty? why should you have to pay anything?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Not quite sure what you mean, are you suggesting that Swift should carry out the habitation service free of charge under the warranty? Surely that would be like asking Fiat to service the base vehicle labour free, I guess they would tell me where to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawki Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 It depends what part of the country you live in, but probably £150-£230 ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 dawki - 2012-10-23 10:12 PM It depends what part of the country you live in, but probably £150-£230 ish There are a couple of places over this way ( Lancashire ) that offer " £99 All In " but they always seem to find a couple of jobs that tends to bring it back up to the kind of prices that you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRANKP60 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I have a Eldiss Sunseeker 200 ,When I had the Habitation check done at Motor home dealer it was 175.00,last year used a mobile service and cost was 95-00.Guys name was Tony Holt ,covers Hampshire Surry,Sussex ,contact me if you want more details.At least I could see what was being check ,and he greased/,oil all cupboard doors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 The most important thing about the habitation check is for water ingress and damp, if that part of the check is ok then the appliances are a minor detail. The cost is secondary to thoroughness. I have a damp meter that cost £176 and I wouldn't be without it. I don't believe in waiting a year to find out if I have a problem, damp needs sorting asap before any serious damage is caused. I have had experience of water ingress on a brand new motorhome, noticed after only 24 hours of ownership, it was sorted out straight away. I saw a posting where a damp test was carried out on a motorhome that was being traded in after all the documentation and monies were handed over. I think that the dealer was out of order, a damp check should have been carried out prior to any order or sales agreement was signed. The purchaser had to hand over further money to allow the deal to go through. There will be many owners who have done a deal, signed on the dotted line without having their trade in checked over and then been dropped on with a further demand for more cash. Naughty, Naughty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 The important thing is to make sure it is done in accordance with the by a Swift Group Service Centre: The Annual Service on the body shell and habitation area must be carried out in accordance with the requirements in this handbook. You will be responsible for any charges made for an Annual Service. If the Annual Service is performed by an authorised Swift Group Service Centre then Swift warrants that the Annual Service has been performed correctly. If the Annual Service is performed by an unauthorised repairer or service centre then if the Annual Service has not been performed in accordance with the requirements in this handbook and/or work has been performed on your motorhome that is defective or faulty, then Swift will not be obliged to perform any work under this Warranty (insofar as it relates to defective or faulty work or defective Annual Service). So, whoever you use you must ensure the above is done. Allowing non-Swift workshops to do it is unusual as often the manufacturer will ONLY allow it to be done by either the supplying dealer or one who is an official supplier of their vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 rolandrat - 2012-10-24 10:17 AM I saw a posting where a damp test was carried out on a motorhome that was being traded in after all the documentation and monies were handed over. I think that the dealer was out of order, a damp check should have been carried out prior to any order or sales agreement was signed. The purchaser had to hand over further money to allow the deal to go through. There will be many owners who have done a deal, signed on the dotted line without having their trade in checked over and then been dropped on with a further demand for more cash. Naughty, Naughty. Hi Roland, perhaps you would like to repeat the above on the Swift Talk thread ... :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 There should be a laid down common procedure that includes a prior damp check on any trade in before any sales agreements are accepted. If a trade in is within its warranty period then the dealer can claim for any remedial work that might be found to be necessary off the manufacturer other than that if there is an obvious problem that needs putting right then the deal should be put on hold until a reasonable quote has been obtained if out of warranty. Would a salesman go along those lines or is his commission and closing a sale more important? It seems a very dark area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 rolandrat - 2012-10-24 10:17 AM...I don't believe in waiting a year to find out if I have a problem, damp needs sorting asap before any serious damage is caused. I have had experience of water ingress on a brand new motorhome, noticed after only 24 hours of ownership... Very wise. As a matter of public service, what was the brand of the leaky brand new motorhome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Crinkleystarfish, I have sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 As a matter of interest for anyone who wants to buy a damp meter similar to what dealers use mine is a :- GE Protimeter Mini BLD 2000 which can be purchased from :- Surveying + Safety Equipment, Peverall Bros Ltd, Survey Express Services, Unit 4a Adlington Business Park, London Road, Adlington. SK10 4NL. Tel. 01625 859533 www.surveyexpress.co.uk The cost was :- £132 plus postage plus vat total then was £170.40. It might have gone up since then but for piece of mind it's a small price to pay. It comes with a case, a calibration device and optional electrodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airstream Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Hi, I use the same damp meter and I also agree that 12 months is far to long between tests Only a few days ago I was completing a "hab service" on my van (its out of warranty) and had a high reading at the NS rear low down the wall panel It was caused by one of the amber side lights that had a cracked lens and was allowing water to permeate into the polystyrene insulation of the panel I last tested the van in June and it was all clear - I then checked the other side marker lamps and found the other rear lamp had a cracked lens but no water ingress I purchased my meter off ebay £90 second hand but had never been used I paid £90 for my damp meter and knocked up a pressure tester for the gas system for £20 so for less than the cost of one hab check I test my van every 3 to 4 months All of my checks/tests are as the industry standard and require a few tools and common sense I do not have a CO tester but check the gas operation of the hob/oven/grille by flame shape and colour as do most of the industry "experts" However its an individual choice and I am happier knowing what and how has been checked on my van, others will need the assurance that the dealer has done the job Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Airstream - 2012-10-25 7:19 PM Hi, I use the same damp meter and I also agree that 12 months is far to long between tests Only a few days ago I was completing a "hab service" on my van (its out of warranty) and had a high reading at the NS rear low down the wall panel It was caused by one of the amber side lights that had a cracked lens and was allowing water to permeate into the polystyrene insulation of the panel I last tested the van in June and it was all clear - I then checked the other side marker lamps and found the other rear lamp had a cracked lens but no water ingress I purchased my meter off ebay £90 second hand but had never been used I paid £90 for my damp meter and knocked up a pressure tester for the gas system for £20 so for less than the cost of one hab check I test my van every 3 to 4 months All of my checks/tests are as the industry standard and require a few tools and common sense I do not have a CO tester but check the gas operation of the hob/oven/grille by flame shape and colour as do most of the industry "experts" However its an individual choice and I am happier knowing what and how has been checked on my van, others will need the assurance that the dealer has done the job Regards RayTheres the rub.....you just don't know if the dealer has indeed "done the job". If you do it yourself, you do, and you have a vested interest inasmuch that you have to live in it. The dealer knows you won't know if it's done properly or not. Otherwise you wouldn't be taking it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Saw this in a recent Hymer brochure:- The unique PUAL costruction with which HYMER is still setting standards is characterised above all by the excellent insulation values of the walls and roof. The excellent insulation provided by the closed-pore PU foam guarantees pleasant temperatures through the year and keeps gas consumption down in winter. The thermal insulation provided is equivalent to a solid masonary wall 68 cm thick. In addition, this composite technology is an absolutely watertight and corrosionproof construction. The walls and roof are manufactured from a single casting and thus are able to meet the highest loading. The composite technology also provides an absolute watertight joint at the transitions between the side walls and the front wall. It has been in use since 1968. Reading this brochure just underlines the manufacturing technology and quality builds that the Hymer group is renown for and anyone who owns one will have absolute confidence in their choice of motorhome. I'm not aware of anyone who has had any major issues such as water ingress or damp problems with one even after 10 years of ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airstream Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Hi, The problem in motorhome construction regarding damp or water ingress is down to the type of insulation in the body construction One type sucks in water the other does not, one type is a little more expensive, one type is "structural" the other is not So why do UK manufacturers ie Swift use open cell foam - the one that sucks and gives all the damp issues? I quote "Open-cell foam is soft - like a cushion or the packaging material molded inside a plastic bag to fit a fragile object being shipped. The cell walls, or surfaces of the bubbles, are broken and air fills all of the spaces in the material. This makes the foam soft or weak, as if it were made of broken balloons or soft toy rubber balls. The insulation value of this foam is related to the insulation value of the calm air inside the matrix of broken cells. The densities of open-cell foams are around 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound per cubic foot. Closed-cell foam has varying degrees of hardness, depending its density. A normal, closed-cell insulation or flotation polyurethane is between 2 and 3 pounds per cubic foot. It is strong enough to walk on without major distortion. Most of the cells or bubbles in the foam are not broken; they resemble inflated balloons or soccer balls, piled together in a compact configuration. This makes it strong or rigid because the bubbles are strong enough to take a lot of pressure, like the inflated tires that hold up an automobile. The cells are full of a special gas, selected to make the insulation value of the foam as high as possible. Answer Swift put profit before customer satisfaction and the long life of product for a few pounds on the cost of a motorhome damp problems could be a thing of the past I highlight Swift as I have one and know that the insulation is open cell - Hymer use closed cell as do some other manufacturers If the manufacturers know that they produce a product that needs a yearly inspection to identify that water ingress is a problem then its time the manufacturers paid for it Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Well then Hymer must have something right with their construction. I have noticed that most of the oldest vans that I have seen still running are Hymers, and ours is still in superb condition after only 11 years. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 rolandrat - 2012-10-24 10:17 AM The most important thing about the habitation check is for water ingress and damp......... Returning from touring in Europe last month I met a couple from Scotland and we've kept in touch by email since. They had a low profile CB on a Transit base, 08 plated with just 11k on the clock. Bought from a local Dealer they'd only had it a few weeks and decided it wasn't big enough so on returning home went to see if he would take it back. Not interested so they went to another Dealer who had a look around, then told them he wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.......it had serious damp. And this is a four year old van with just 11k on the clock!! Luckily for them the Dealer who had originally sold it then agreed to do them a PX.......but it's cost them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Bulletguy - 2012-10-28 1:47 AM rolandrat - 2012-10-24 10:17 AM The most important thing about the habitation check is for water ingress and damp......... Returning from touring in Europe last month I met a couple from Scotland and we've kept in touch by email since. They had a low profile CB on a Transit base, 08 plated with just 11k on the clock. Bought from a local Dealer they'd only had it a few weeks and decided it wasn't big enough so on returning home went to see if he would take it back. Not interested so they went to another Dealer who had a look around, then told them he wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.......it had serious damp. And this is a four year old van with just 11k on the clock!! Luckily for them the Dealer who had originally sold it then agreed to do them a PX.......but it's cost them! But of course it should not have cost them a penny. Having only had the van for a few weeks before being advised it had serious damp issues, it was clearly not up to scratch and should have been returned to said dealer for remedy at his expense. Naturally, the upgrade to a larger van would be at their expense, but that is hardly a damp related issue. Regarding types of insulation, closed cell is preferable, as it generally has a higher performance, and open cell will harbour water - if it gets in. However, neither type will actually "suck in" water, the water has first to be there. That is the problem. Manufacturers use superb materials. Modern sealants have lives in the region of 25-30 years - if correctly used - and the main suppliers all have excellent technical advisory services who will recommend the correct profile for a given joint. Aluminium, polyester, and GRP also last for at least that long if correctly made and assembled. A well executed coachbuilt body should easily outlast its base vehicle underpinnings. Even a timber frame, encapsulated in a sandwich of aluminium and ply, will last at least that long, IF IT STAYS DRY. The problem, however the van is constructed, is the same as it always was, poor detailed technical design, and unreliable construction - often the result of that poor design. The design itself costs little to remedy, but may have some minor repercussions for assembly costs, because some joints would take longer to achieve if properly executed. The problem, in general, seems to be that the designers don't have the right degree of technical education to design proper "sealant friendly" joints that are capable of being quickly, easily, and reliably assembled. Don't blame the materials, blame the designers and assembly workers for using them badly. But, above all, blame the management, for failing to secure the right staff with the right qualifications. All those fancy warranties are, ultimately, paid for in the price of the van. If vans never leaked, warranty claims would be zero, and vans cheaper, so one might think they'd sell a few more, and be happier. Why don't they do this? Who knows? They aren't stupid: many are highly qualified in their own fields. It just seems to me that however well qualified they may be as managers, they lack the knowledge to interview and assess the technical qualities and abilities of their designers. Some of the sheer incompetences I have seen on vans make me want to scream! It just endlessly goes on, doesn't it? What comes out of the Hymer factory, with those very smooth, flat, sealed seams, LOOKS to me about right, but I have no idea how far below the surface that extends. However, the technique doesn't seem to have been adopted by the other Hymer brands, which is a puzzle if it is so much better. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawki Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 rolandrat - 2012-10-25 2:41 PM As a matter of interest for anyone who wants to buy a damp meter similar to what dealers use mine is a :- GE Protimeter Mini BLD 2000 which can be purchased from :- Surveying + Safety Equipment, Peverall Bros Ltd, Survey Express Services, Unit 4a Adlington Business Park, London Road, Adlington. SK10 4NL. Tel. 01625 859533 www.surveyexpress.co.uk The cost was :- £132 plus postage plus vat total then was £170.40. It might have gone up since then but for piece of mind it's a small price to pay. It comes with a case, a calibration device and optional electrodes. Are they simple to use. can anybody use on of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airstream Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Hi, The meter mentioned is both simple to use and the results are clear - however you need to establish a base line for your motorhomes construction The meter will display the % of moisture within 3 bands green amber and red and most dealers when selling you a van will say green/amber is fine, when buying or taking PX they will only accept green as ok and screw you on price to investigate amber/red What I do is always carry my meter when visiting shows/dealers and get an average reading for my van model or what I am considering buying From years of "testing" I know where to look and the results can be surprising even on new in the showroom vans Best bit of kit any motorhomer can buy - get a good one that displays the actual moisture content Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camocam1 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 as fairly new to this can you please clarify what you mean by a basline for your type of motorhome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airstream Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Hi, You need to know what is the normal moisture content reading for your vans construction and materials The best way is to visit a dealer who has your make and model or as near as possible with the same wallboards and finishes - its a little cheeky but you test and know what reading you should get on your proposed/own van Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-10-28 11:18 AM Regarding types of insulation, closed cell is preferable, as it generally has a higher performance, and open cell will harbour water - if it gets in. However, neither type will actually "suck in" water, the water has first to be there. I've seen a mobile home 'destroyed' not by water leaking in but by the moisture generated within. Open cell requires a vapour barrier on the inside and this should not have any breaks, closed cell won't guarantee it doesn't have breaks but at least it won't absorb any moisture present when it condensates on the cold outer skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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