rudders Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I recently ordered a new motorhome at the NEC from a reputable dealer for delivery to me in March, and was given a part exchange figure of 23000 on my existing motorhome subject to a damp test and conditional check, i do not have a problem with this, however after signing the new vehicle order form and paying a £2000 deposit i was told that they would like my motorhome as soon as possible as they would like to sell it in the meantime, this would give the company a large slice of my money as a deposit and i must admit that i feel uneasy about this, bearing in mind i will have to wait at least four months till i take delivery of the new vehicle, i have contacted the dealer, who have told me that my vehicle would probably depreciate in that time resulting in me paying more money, i would have thought that the dealer would have taken this into account when he gave me the part x figure. My main worry here is that what would happen if the company ceased trading in the meantime, they would have an awful lot of my money including my deposit which was payed by credit card,is all of this normal practice, any advice would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 This stinks don't you think, and with present economic turmoil I would not do it. So why did they not say this before yuu signed up for new van..I would be very careful, personally would not risk it. Plus why an additional £2000 deposit! tell them to get stuffed they already have the 2K deposit I have recently got a PX quote for a new van from 2 European dealers. delivery dates Feb-March next year.they put another 1000 miles on mine and offered me a PX deal on that basis both within 800 € of each other. There was certainly no talk of taking my van earlier? and alarm bells would ring if they did by allmeans give them the van... but get paid for it *-) Have you looked at their financials? Easy to do online 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 By all means let them have your motorhome , but insist on having the amount of money they have agreed to give you as PX that way you can bank that amount and then just pay over the full balance due on handover . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikyenfo Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Please go and find a reputable dealer who is honest with his promises and report that one to trading standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Would they like you to move out of your house so they can rent it out too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I would advise you strongly NOT to part with your vehicle except in exchange for the new one. I know nothing about the specific dealer who is not identified, however speaking generally we are coming into a time of year when cash is tight, nobody buying and with vehicles laid up the workshop is quiet. Just the time when the banks start pressuring their customers to keep the overdraft within its limit. There may be a retail customer lined up for your splendid van but the dealer may just want to flip it on to the trade. Even if he only gets say £18K that’s £18K off his overdraft. If the dealer goes bust with a “book debt” to you of £23K may lose it all as an ordinary creditor. I am not sure how any credit card protection might be affected by handing over the vehicle but you may not have that anyway if your new vehicle is costing over £30K (which it probably is). As to the trade in, I would have hoped that the value was fixed subject to the condition checks. Read the purchase order and any small print carefully to see if that is the case. Certain I would be strongly arguing that it is a fixed trade in. Take care not to be “sucked” in by assurances of the dealer. In the current climate size and/or past history don’t mean much. At present your worst case loss is £2K. Why make it £23K. Best of luck however it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dave Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I presume by reputable you mean big. As others have said if this unknown dealer goes bust whilst they have your van you will lose the deposit and the van. Don't do it cancel the deal or get them to change their demands only hand over your PX when the new van is ready and you have checked it and are fully satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Don't fall for the age old con of agreeing to a future damp and condition test - they are almost bound to find fault and try to reduce the p/x - it's what they try to do to compensate for giving you what they think is too much at a show! I had a leading dealer try it on me this year when two other dealers had already damp checked the van and declared it sound. Shan't be going there again! When you part ex a van insist that if they want to check it now is the time and the p/x price is the price - full stop - and if the dealer cannot accept that walk away and find another dealer who will. There is nothing wrong with them wanting to sell your van now but if that is the case they should pay you for it now. Should not be a problem as they have your signed order for the new van so are guaranteed their sale when the new van eventually arrives - and don't bank on it being on time either! There is no way I would let any dealer have my van without paying me for it - end of! I would now be inclined to ask for my deposit back because they are imposing unfair conditions after the deal was signed and agreed - isn't that unlawful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I agree what has been said, if they want your van then you want the price for it in your hand. Unless at the time of ordering you agreed to let them have it straight away they have no right asking for it, tread very carefully or you will have months of worry and its not worth it, if they want to give you less in March than what they offered you, WALK AWAY and tell the credit card company what they have done, but they wont they are just trying it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 ....your OP has an interesting use of the word "reputable", as I don't believe any reputable dealer would behave in the way that you describe. You are asking the right questions. DO NOT handover your existing vehicle (unless, as already mentioned - they are prepared to immediately pay you the agreed P-ex amount in full - which they won't be!). Such an action would put you at significant risk, and is not the "normal" way of working. You need to look closely at the terms and conditions, but if it does say a value "subject to a damp test and conditional check", without any other caveats, then this value is contractual, despite any intervening period, and if the vehicle isn't damp and is in good condition then you should be OK. In these circumstances, any reduction in value due to normal depreciation in the intervening period is the Dealer's risk. The main issue you may face is the dealer "finding" damp when you finally do the deal (you can judge the general condition yourself) - and I would be suspicious of any dealer that would try to do business in the way you describe. For peace of mind, you may wish to have your vehicle independently damp-tested prior to your final exchange, so you are pre-armed with results before any exchange test is done. If the facts are as you say, then I certainly wouldn't consider the particular dealer to be reputable - it might be worthwhile naming them, as there is at least one other recent similar occurrence described on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 The dealer may have a genuine buyer lined up for you van. The end of season is a good time to do a deal on a second hand van so perhaps they did not have the van in that the customer wanted but your van would be ideal when it comes in. There is no prospect of the dealer giving you the sale price for your van. The best you can hope for is the part exchange money. The worst is that they seek to keep all your money. They will want to keep a willing seller away from you so that you do not cut them out of the deal. Talk to your dealer. You need to be polite but firm because it does have £2,000 of yours already. See if you can find out what it is up to. See how you can receive at least your part exchange before you give it the van. Not every dealer is a rogue. But don't part with your van without getting the money for it when you give it to the dealer. Might be worth you naming the dealer in case it has tried it on with others. If it is all above board such as a one off opportunity for the dealer, then the dealer will not mind being named. Be sure to have the correct facts if you do name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 When a dealer says to me that they will damp check my van when I come to hand it over I refuse and invite them to check it at the time my agreement to buy. If they decline and insist on a check at the time of delivery, I then insist that they do so on my arrival and before any handover of the new van or the exchange of monies takes place. Furthermore having declined the opportunity to check the van at the time the deal was struck if they find fault for which they want to charge me I reserve the right to cancel the deal there and then and have a full refund of my deposit, and that I will write this on the order as my pre condition before signing. That tends to focus their minds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 If this " reputable dealer " would like to have your van as soon as possible, why doesn't he just buy it off you ? :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Robinhood - 2012-10-28 10:24 AM ....your OP has an interesting use of the word "reputable", as I don't believe any reputable dealer would behave in the way that you describe. You are asking the right questions. DO NOT handover your existing vehicle (unless, as already mentioned - they are prepared to immediately pay you the agreed P-ex amount in full - which they won't be!). Such an action would put you at significant risk, and is not the "normal" way of working. You need to look closely at the terms and conditions, but if it does say a value "subject to a damp test and conditional check", without any other caveats, then this value is contractual, despite any intervening period, and if the vehicle isn't damp and is in good condition then you should be OK. In these circumstances, any reduction in value due to normal depreciation in the intervening period is the Dealer's risk. The main issue you may face is the dealer "finding" damp when you finally do the deal (you can judge the general condition yourself) - and I would be suspicious of any dealer that would try to do business in the way you describe. For peace of mind, you may wish to have your vehicle independently damp-tested prior to your final exchange, so you are pre-armed with results before any exchange test is done. If the facts are as you say, then I certainly wouldn't consider the particular dealer to be reputable - it might be worthwhile naming them, as there is at least one other recent similar occurrence described on this forum. Agreed! All I would add to the above, is that you take to van to the dealer to be damp checked as soon as possible, on the understanding that they record the date and mileage on the certificate. Then, they must accept the depreciation risk (that they knew about when you signed, and which appears not to be part of your contract) while you maintain possession of the van (which you will doubtless need to undertake to keep insured, and to which you may need to undertake not to add more than nominal mileage), and also the risk of water ingress over the period until the new van is ready for delivery, without further change in the P/X price, this to be confirmed in writing. The only alternatives I would find acceptable would be a) they pay you the full P/X price at the time they do the damp check, or b) they place the same sum into your solicitor's escrow account, to be released to you when you take delivery of the new van and pay them the balance due, plus meeting the legal costs of so doing. Outside that, they appear to me to have breached their contract by seeking to add conditions after it has been signed. (However, do read that contract very carefully, because they tend to be standard forms with more get-out clauses than a jail with no walls!) That should give you the right to demand your deposit back on grounds of their breach, so cancelling the whole deal, leaving you to start again with a more reliable dealer. If unclear, talk to Citizen's Advice, who seem to have taken over the public facing role of Trading Standards insofar as individual cases are concerned. You may find your nearest branch has a "duty solicitor", who can be consulted for a quick appraisal of where you stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 PULL OUT OF THE DEAL NOW! They have "moved the goal posts" What's to say they won't do it again, later in the deal? Go to another dealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawcara Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Agree with all of the above. Also as you in effect giving them a loan, adding to their balance sheet, give them an interest comparable with your credit card, say 18%. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcar Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Hi rudders. Been there, done that. Would not contemplate doing it again. Ended up messy. Just take in all the advice provided, and do what you feel happy with. The fact that you have posted this query I think says it all. Best of luck, Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Well Rudders there you have it, we are all as one on this (for once!).....hope it has helped you. By the way welcome to the forum as did not notice it was your first post initially :-D Please let us know what you decide to do....local CAB a good port of call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I ordered a new motorhome at the time of the show last October,could have taken delivery in Jan 2012 but I asked if it could wait till new reg in March as I was only another 8 weeks they said OK. My deposit was £1000. As most of said pull out or go by the orginal deal that was offered and why an increase of deposit do they need the money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 A couple of additional points. I am not sure if Mike has actually said that an additional deposit has been requested, however IF the dealer was to sell the PX van and keep the proceeds that would have the same effect. I am also not sure if the dealer has yet breached the contract. What he seems to have done if to offer to vary it. Such a unilateral variation isn't a variation and has no effect unless it IS accepted by Mike expressly or my implication. If that view is right then the other side of the coin is that Mike may well not yet have any right to pull out. There is very clear here advice that Mike should NOT accept the variation. I wouldn't get involved in ANY arrangement involving parting with the vehicle, escrow or otherwise. There simply are too many risks. Brian's advice to present the vehicle for a damp check and examination is a very good one. Mike should write a simple but clear letter to the dealer setting out the dealers invitation to take the vehicle early for resale and politely declining it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I once ordered a motorhome at the NEC show and I was asked to pass my motorhome on to the dealer the first week in January as my new one was to be delivered from the manufacturer the following May. I refused point blank to do it and kept on using it right up to the changeover. To me it's a nasty way of doing business, I have never dealt with them since. Yes they are supposed to be a reputable dealer but if they are then no one should be subjected to that sort of agreement. The dealer could get into financial dificulties and go bust whilst he is hanging onto your property, then you end up loosing your deposit and motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crbtaylor Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Been there done that and wouldn't do it again. We did the deal at the 2011 NEx show for delivery in Jan/Feb 2012. We left our "old" MH with the national dealer in Jan 2012 expecting to get our new van in the very near future. It eventually arrived in JUNE !! 6 months without a van. Despite our request for a temporary van from them this was declined. Think twice about parting with your van, or at least get a confirmed delivery date in writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 In the present Dire financial climate NO dealership is 100% guranteed to survive, the most I would 'gamble' as deposit is £2000, and it is a slight gamble. I just did it, and have just passed over my 'Old Van' in P/X, BUT Only, when I was given the keys and took delivery of my 'New' unregistered (2012 model) Van. (which was what we wanted,and was on their forecourt at a discounted price) We are away in it now for a 'Shakedown' stay in Freezing cold Norfolk, only a couple of miles away from the dealership (clue ?) , and already have a list of small 'fixes' that need to be done. After the debacle of 'Discover leisure' last year, who went down while their salesmen were still taking deposits at the Show (in my view worthy of criminal proceedings) I thought that folk would have been a bit more 'Wary' with their 'hard earned cash' . AND your part Ex. van IS cash both to you and the dealer. Under NO circumstances give your van to the Dealer BEFORE you have the keys to your new Van. Unless you are a big time gambler. Ray Just realised it's your first post Rudders, welcome to the forum, hope our combined 2p's worth helps ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 HymerVan - 2012-10-28 3:04 PM A couple of additional points. I am not sure if Mike has actually said that an additional deposit has been requested, however IF the dealer was to sell the PX van and keep the proceeds that would have the same effect. I am also not sure if the dealer has yet breached the contract. What he seems to have done if to offer to vary it. Such a unilateral variation isn't a variation and has no effect unless it IS accepted by Mike expressly or my implication. If that view is right then the other side of the coin is that Mike may well not yet have any right to pull out. There is very clear here advice that Mike should NOT accept the variation. I wouldn't get involved in ANY arrangement involving parting with the vehicle, escrow or otherwise. There simply are too many risks. Brian's advice to present the vehicle for a damp check and examination is a very good one. Mike should write a simple but clear letter to the dealer setting out the dealers invitation to take the vehicle early for resale and politely declining it. On reflection, I think you are right: there is, as yet, no actual breach, just a request to vary terms, which can be accepted or rejected. I agree about writing to the dealer setting out their request, and politely rejecting it. In fact, unless the condition relating to the damp check immediately before handover is somewhere in the contract, I would, on further reflection, suggest he rejects that request as well, pointing out that there was no such undertaking requested, or given, at the point the contract was signed. The contract (but do look carefully for what little gems are in their standard form!) appears to be based on part payment via P/X, on an unseen van, which I think means all risk on the P/X is the dealer's. Then see which way they jump! I suspect they'll simply return your deposit - which may be the best thing all round. Then, start afresh with a different dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Wow, tell em to stuff off get your deposit back if you can and and run like hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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