urgent advice needed please new motorhome order

[Mel B]

Hi Rudders - welcome to the mad house! :-D

 

In response to your query - to put it as simply as I can DO NOT DO IT! A reputable dealer would NOT ask you to hand over your van before you took delivery of your new one, it should never happen and you should not have been asked to do it.

 

You have signed a contract and as part of that it should say that your vehicle is being PX'd at a value of X and a payment of Y will then be due after deduction of the PX value and deposit already paid. There should be NO change in these figures unless there is a major problem with your old van when you come to the day you take delivery of your new van - it would have to be an extensive problem for them to 'require' any more money from you and if that was the case I'd certainly think carefully and get a second opinion on whatever 'problem' they allegedly find. I have never heard of them wanting to reduce the figure simply because of depreciation for the intervening time between now and when you are due to take delivery - that is just total cow poo. The price they have offered should be based on the value of your van at the time they have agreed that they will get it (ie on your 'change-over' day).

 

Remember they are NOT your friends, they are in business to make money. As has been suggested rather than speak to them over the phone, I'd write to them formally, but politely, stating the facts that you are aware of and declining to hand over your old van early, or pay more for the new van when it comes to collection. If they want to see your van to do a damp check then offer that (assuming you are not hundreds of miles away) and get them to confirm that the deal as it was agreed originally stands, if not, then insist that you have your deposit back and go elsewhere - if they are honourable (!) then they won't bother you about it again.

 

I'll drop you a PM regarding this too (look just below the top of the screen when you've logged on and you'll see In box will show a message is in it).

[Brian Kirby]

Brian Kirby - 2012-10-28 6:01 PM.......................In fact, unless the condition relating to the damp check immediately before handover is somewhere in the contract, I would, on further reflection, suggest he rejects that request as well, pointing out that there was no such undertaking requested, or given, at the point the contract was signed.

 

The contract (but do look carefully for what little gems are in their standard form!) appears to be based on part payment via P/X, on an unseen van, which I think means all risk on the P/X is the dealer's. Then see which way they jump! I suspect they'll simply return your deposit - which may be the best thing all round. Then, start afresh with a different dealer.

Sorry to quote me, but quickest way maintain continuity. :-) Re-reading your original post it is clear you understood a satisfactory damp test to be a condition of the P/X value. It is not so clear whether that condition was attached before, or after, you signed. If before, or stated in the contract, was/is the timing of the damp test clarified? If so, you may be in a bit of a bind contractually if it says the damp test is to be conducted at the point of handover, as it seems you may have signed to that.

 

Your risk is that damp is found, and that the P/X price is then dropped to reflect the cost of repairs. This is a bit of a one-way street because a) you have to accept the word of the man with the meter that it tests damp and b) you have no way of knowing whether the reduction in value is a true reflection of the cost of repair.

 

If you can successfully negotiate away the request to hand over your van early, which you have no obligation to accept, and you still wish to continue with the deal, can you get your van fully under cover over the period until the new van is ready? The ideal would be a barn, where it is airy but dry. A breathable fabric cover would be second best, but will need monitoring to make sure it doesn't flap around in wind and cause paint abrasions. However, don't use plastic sheet, as it will sweat under that and may accumulate moisture. Even better, can you also get a small heater, or a dehumidifier, into it over the same period? If you can keep the outside dry, and the inside gently warmed or dehumidified, there is very little chance at all of it failing the test when the time comes. If you still feel uneasy, arrange to get it independently damp tested a few days before it goes to the dealer for handover, still keeping it under cover until you go. Then, if his test shows damp where there is none, you'll know he's on the fiddle, and you'll still have your van, leaving him with the new one, and no-one to buy it. Should result in a swift change of heart! Unless this has already been done recently, I'd also suggest having it tested now as well, just to set your mind at rest.

 

My final thought is a compromise. Let the dealer have the van on his forecourt, on condition that you sign a joint declaration that the van will remain your property until he sells it (to protect your ownership if his business fails in the meantime), that he will maintain and insure it as if it were his stock, and that on sale he will immediately hand you the agreed P/X value, whatever sum he sells it for. You keep the registration document in the meantime, and will release it to him when you have the P/X value in your bank account. The worst that should involve is a trip to the nearest branch of his bank to be handed a banker's order (not by him, actually at the bank so that you can see a bank cashier hand it over - there are forgeries around), at which point you can both head off to the nearest branch of your bank, to deposit the order into your account, with a pre arranged instruction for immediate clearance, wheron you will hand him the registration document with the change portion completed. The signatory on behalf of the dealer needs to be the MD, or the company secretary, not the salesman. What he makes in addition to the P/X value remains his business, and is his reasonable profit on that part of the deal. If the van has not sold before the new van becomes available, the P/X value to be set in full against the cost of the new van as in the contract. It needs to be simple, clear and brief: one side of A4 more than sufficient, a solicitor should be able to come up with something to fit at reasonable cost. This is not without risk, and only you can decide whether the present deal is worth the risk, and whether you have sufficient confidence in the firm to go down this road. May be worth seeing what you can dig out about the firm at Company's House.

[flicka]

Everybody appears to be condeming the Dealer, but what are the full terms of his offer.

If he is offering to PAY the full P/X price to rudders, both could benefit.

Less risk of water ingress over winter period reducing P/X price. Cash in rudders bank.

 

If the Dealer sees potential of selling the Van before an influx of high volume of P/X's just before the start of the "sales season" which may make his target price more difficult to achieve.

 

So, if Dealer is offering CASH NOW & rudders doesn't use the van during winter months, why not ????

[derek pringle]

Hi All,

Am I missing something here?

The way I see it is that Rudders has been given a P/X price for his vehicle which should be taken in to account at the time of the actual handover [ subject to any agreed damp test ]. Now if Rudders found a private buyer himself before this date and achieved MORE than the 23k offered by the dealer, does he not just pay the dealer the extra 23k in cash? Alternatively if the dealer finds a buyer BEFORE the handover date then Rudders could pay them a commision for sale and he also benefits from an increase on the 23k.

I am sure this is too simplistic but hope somebody will put me straight.

cheers

derek

[RogerC]

This sounds like a very strange way to go about things.  If part exing your car would you let the dealer have yours months before taking delivery of your new one?  I have never heard of this sort of practice before.  A friend of mine who runs a car dealership said he would be delighted if he could do this as it would, over a 12 month period make him a lot richer.  Just imagine all those thousands of £'s extra sitting in his account from the deposits and sales of part ex vehicles whilst not paying out on the 'incoming stock' for months.

 

From a legal standpoint there have been a number of cases in the motorcycle world where owners have had their bikes in for service/repairs etc and the dealership has gone bust.  Those owners have had a nightmare trying to get 'their' property back from the administrators.  In the worst case scenario how would you feel if the the dealership goes bust and your MH was sitting in their premises behind a locked secured gate and you had no idea who to contact to get it back?  Would you really want that hassle/expense of legal proceedings to recover it?

 

In a nutshell....IMO.....DON'T LET THEM HAVE YOUR MH until the point of exchange for your new one.  You could be letting yourself in for a whole load of trouble not to mention not having use of your current one in the intervening months.

 

[rolandrat]

It's minefield of an arrangement. What if the dealer has a hire fleet and your motorhome joins it. No way should anyone part with a motorhome until changeover day and a damp check has been carried out before any monies, documents and signatures are exchanged.

[euroserv]

Hello gang,

 

Did we not have someone else on here about a year ago telling us about exactly the same sort of arrangement? I may be wrong, but at the time the consensus was that while it was inadvisable to part with the PX early, it was not uncommon.

 

One of my colleagues gave up his PX car a couple of months before he got his new car this year but they gave him a loan car in the interim period. (they also sold his car for £11,000 while his PX was valued by them at £8,200).

 

This was Sytner Mini, and you would think that they would be safe enough but a motorhome dealer? Don't do it!

 

Nick

 

 

[rudders]

Thanks so much to everyone for their comments on my problem,and i will let you know of the outcome, however i will not be giving them my van before taking receipt of the new one, thats for sure, and there is nothing in the contract that states this, i am willing to allow them to see the vehicle and damp test it if they wish,again nothing in the contract states that i have to, there are no added comments on the p/x part of my copy ie depreciation extra mileage etc, and the value of this p/x is clearly written so i must presume this takes into account the date of ( hopefully) handover of new vehicle to me, and i would certainly argue this to them if necessary, early this morninng i phoned the dealer to talk to the salesman only to be told he was on the phone and would get him to call me back, that was nearly nine hours ago and i am still waiting, hmmm. thanks once again for your help.

[Guest JudgeMental]

for heavens sake do yourself and others on here a favour and name them.....

[rudders]

if the sparks start flying then watch this space i promise,

[peacock312]

does your reputable dealers name begin with M ? if yes i will tell you on here my horrer story after i bought a new van at NEC OCT2009 i was lucky,i managed to get my deposit back eventually after dozens of phone calls,advice etc.from trading standards,

[mike 202]

Bottom line - It should be a happy experience buying a new motorhome not a total worry. So far things seem to be going wrong, no return phonecall from the salesman amongst other angst that you are and will continue to suffer.

SO Please name the dealer and name the salesman, nothing wrong in doing that especially the salesman as you are merely making a statement of fact. Might make both the dealer and the sales guy sit up and take notice. If they dont then they can suffer the consequences of future buyers taking due note of your experiences and of course making their own decisions as to deal or no deal.

I had a lucky escape a few years ago, let the dealer have my second car early, then new car delivery delayed by manufacturer, got the new car 3 months late then dealer went to the wall a couple of months later. So agree with all that has been said on here, do not let your van go early.

Also bear in mind that your motorhome is part of the deal and if you sell it privately then the dealer may well seek to recover his lost profit on your PX, of course on the other hand he may well be delighted. You would be wise to check with the dealer his reaction should the opportunity to apparently make more money with a private sale

Hope all is well in the end - Mike

[rudders]

no but my existing one was, iniyially it was back and forwaed to them with all sorts of niggles and a round trip each time of 90 miles, clocked up more mileage going back there than going camping, in the end the manager agreed to collect my vehicle for further work under guarantee, it was eventually bought back to me by a young lad who told me that he had hit a lorry on the way to me, there was digs along all of the nearside , so another 3 weeks went by before it was returned to me, one day i will write a book about my bad luck, dont think it would be a good idea as yet to name and shame new dealer as i would like to get things sorted first and they have my deposit, regards rudders

[Hawcara]

I agree with others, it would be good to hear who the dealer is, lest others fall into this trap. Alternatively, someone might be a cash purchaser, but never actually see it, whilst having put a large cash deposit down.

The other thing is, that surely now is not normally the time of year when people buy vans? They buy them in the early spring with the intention to use, but many are laying them up for winter.

It may be worth speaking to the many dealers who seem to want vans for cash and finding out the price they would give you, then go in with a cash offer~perhaps get a better deal :-D

[Rayjsj]

Rudders,

you don't have to ACTUALLY name the dealer in question, We are quite resourceful, a few 'well aimed' hints, and we will know who it is. ........ and who to avoid. Ray

[PJay]

Rayjsj - 2012-10-31 2:50 PM

 

Rudders,

you don't have to ACTUALLY name the dealer in question, We are quite resourceful, a few 'well aimed' hints, and we will know who it is. ........ and who to avoid. Ray

 

 

Or say where you live, We can guess who is 45 ,miles away!!

[Guest JudgeMental]

Members on here try to help each other as best we can. We are helping you but you are not really reciprocating are you. Forewarned is forearmed/buyer beware and all that *-)

[Brian Kirby]

Hold on a minute chaps, rudders hasn't yet, so far as I know, finally decided what course he will take.

 

He's said he will advise the dealer he isn't playing, which seems sensible. He next has to get the dealer's reaction to that. It may be that the dealer throws a wobbly, or it may be that he apologises for the unauthorised behaviour of one of his staff, or it may be that he says the whole thing was a huge misunderstanding, and of course the premature hand-over of the van wasn't what they actually intended.

 

IMO, it would be unwise for rudders to publicise the name of a dealer with whom he may have a dispute when a contract with them still exists, and the full story has not yet been heard. We have only heard one side, and I doubt the dealer would wish to identify himself (especially when so many assumptions as to his motives have already been voiced) to put his side of the case and, as it is a private matter, I can see no reason why he should. At present both parties remain anonymous, and for now that is probably the best state of affairs.

 

Naming the dealer, taking account of some of what has been said above, could probably be considered defamatory, and would achieve no more, IMO, than getting the thread pulled to protect Warners from the risk of a libel case.

[Guest JudgeMental]

A pox on you Sir!...Damn your eyes!!! (lol)

[HymerVan]

Couldn't agree more Brian.

It is not in David's interest to name the dealer, not only because it may (or may not) be defamatory but more particularly because it may make the problem more difficult to resolve.

David must want the dealer to continue in business or at the very least to continue long enough to implement the contract by delivering the new van or refunding the deposit.

Lines of communication with dealer need to be carefully maintained and arrangements agreed documented ideally in written form.

None of this detracts from the advice NOT to part with the vehicle, advice which David has already taken on board.