Liverpool pathway

[nightrider]

What do you think of the Liverpool pathway? where doctors withdraw food and water to patients that are terminal?

[nowtelse2do]

 

This recession must be bad if the doctors' are stealing the patients food and water.

 

Liverpool eh.!! Looks like the are still keeping up with local traditions. *-)

 

Dave

[Tracker]

In 2004 my first wife died of cancer and her final days were spent unconscious from a morphine feed and starved of food and water until she died after 10 days of this abuse which was supposed to be care.

I am not in the least a religious man but I visited her every day - sometimes twice - and literally prayed every day for it to end - and when it did end I was heartbroken not only at the loss of my lover, my wife and my best friend of over 37 years but also at the way it ended.

I took it up with the doctors and the hospital and my MP but got nowhere except even more upset so after a while I knew I could gain nothing so I stopped complaining.

It's not the doctor's fault - it's the law against dignified death that those who have never been through it insist on supporting.

The thought of it now still fills me with tears 8 years later but being a lucky boy I am so very happily remarried to another wonderful woman.

You have to have experienced it, as many many thousands of people have, to be able to understand the emotions, the pain, the misery and the suffering it causes.

Until doctors have the authority to end a life where there is no hope of any life without extreme pain and suffering for the victim nothing will ever be able to be changed.

That said there could be the risk of unscrupulous doctors abusing the right to terminate for a variety of reasons not all of which could be seen as in the patient's best interests at that time.

A vexed question indeed.

 

PS - I will not be offended at humour or irreverence on this topic as my sense of humour - and me dawg - went a long way to keeping me going through that awful period!

[nightrider]

Tracker - 2012-11-08 4:38 PM

 

In 2004 my first wife died of cancer and her final days were spent unconscious from a morphine feed and starved of food and water until she died after 10 days of this abuse which was supposed to be care.

I am not in the least a religious man but I visited her every day - sometimes twice - and literally prayed every day for it to end - and when it did end I was heartbroken not only at the loss of my lover, my wife and my best friend of over 37 years but also at the way it ended.

I took it up with the doctors and the hospital and my MP but got nowhere except even more upset so after a while I knew I could gain nothing so I stopped complaining.

It's not the doctor's fault - it's the law against dignified death that those who have never been through it insist on supporting.

The thought of it now still fills me with tears 8 years later but being a lucky boy I am so very happily remarried to another wonderful woman.

You have to have experienced it, as many many thousands of people have, to be able to understand the emotions, the pain, the misery and the suffering it causes.

Until doctors have the authority to end a life where there is no hope of any life without extreme pain and suffering for the victim nothing will ever be able to be changed.

That said there could be the risk of unscrupulous doctors abusing the right to terminate for a variety of reasons not all of which could be seen as in the patient's best interests at that time.

A vexed question indeed.

 

PS - I will not be offended at humour or irreverence on this topic as my sense of humour - and me dawg - went a long way to keeping me going through that awful period!

Well said Richard, I have more than a passing interest in the Liverpool Care Pathway.

[CliveH]

Tracker - 2012-11-08 4:38 PM

 

In 2004 my first wife died of cancer and her final days were spent unconscious from a morphine feed and starved of food and water until she died after 10 days of this abuse which was supposed to be care.

I am not in the least a religious man but I visited her every day - sometimes twice - and literally prayed every day for it to end - and when it did end I was heartbroken not only at the loss of my lover, my wife and my best friend of over 37 years but also at the way it ended.

I took it up with the doctors and the hospital and my MP but got nowhere except even more upset so after a while I knew I could gain nothing so I stopped complaining.

It's not the doctor's fault - it's the law against dignified death that those who have never been through it insist on supporting.

The thought of it now still fills me with tears 8 years later but being a lucky boy I am so very happily remarried to another wonderful woman.

You have to have experienced it, as many many thousands of people have, to be able to understand the emotions, the pain, the misery and the suffering it causes.

Until doctors have the authority to end a life where there is no hope of any life without extreme pain and suffering for the victim nothing will ever be able to be changed.

That said there could be the risk of unscrupulous doctors abusing the right to terminate for a variety of reasons not all of which could be seen as in the patient's best interests at that time.

A vexed question indeed.

 

PS - I will not be offended at humour or irreverence on this topic as my sense of humour - and me dawg - went a long way to keeping me going through that awful period!

 

Wonderfully put Tracker.

 

Says it all.

 

Very moving BECAUSE what you say is so true.

 

My Mother in law went through the same sad process - and yes you are correct it is not the Dr's fault - it is the law demanding such an undignified death.

 

Towards the end my MiL was on oxygen and morphine - the oxygen dried her tongue out such that it was black and half its normal size. When she moved it - it cracked and bled. She was double incontinent and had a catheter that they often left open to view.

 

If we treated an animal that way the RSPCA quite rightly would prosecute.

 

But it happens day in day out in our hospitals.

 

I am not saying I know the answer - but from my direct experience of how we treat our terminally ill - we need a better way.

 

What we do currently is cruel.

 

 

[Tracker]

Thanks guys. I must add that the care by the nurses on the ward was fantastic and all the evidence that I saw pointed to considerate and respectful care at all times and indeed one lady nurse in particular was close to tears herself at times and she had never met my wife before she was admitted for the last time.

 

Due to the nature of the ward I was allowed to visit at any time which I did, partly because I had not much else to do and partly so that I could keep an eye on proceedings and I was never given any reason to doubt the supreme dedication of the wonderful staff at that time in Ward 10 at the NHS hospital in Haverfordwest.

 

The rest of the hospital and health care in general in Wales from the GP onwards is entirely another matter because until you have experienced health care in both England and Wales you will never know how poor it really had become since the Welsh Old Pals club took over running it. When we live in West Wales we really had to insist on getting anything done and I do hope that it has improved over the last two years. Rant over!

[colin]

knight of the road - 2012-11-08 8:39 AM

 

What do you think of the Liverpool pathway? where doctors withdraw food and water to patients that are terminal?

 

Been reading the Daily Fail Malcolm? Let me quote you a more reasoned piece, and one that many who have been throu this know a bit more about than some sensationalist rag.

 

While there have been allegations of individual failings on the part of healthcare professionals – mainly relating to a lack of communication with relatives and carers – the model of care itself appears to be both appropriate and humane.

 

Many of the media stories about the LCP seem to be criticising its stated aim – to allow terminally ill patients with no hope of a cure to die with dignity.

 

As a GP put it in the British Medical Journal, the LCP “has transformed end of life care from an undignified, painful experience into a peaceful, dignified death at home”.

 

Been there done that got the teeshirt.

[Guest Peter James]

A Very Moving account Tracker and Clive, and all too common I think. Thanks for sharing.

Its one of those things politicians just seem to evade as too difficult to deal with. But there are others trying to make a difference link: http://www.exitinternational.com/

[Guest Peter James]

knight of the road - 2012-11-08 5:34 PM

I have more than a passing interest in the Liverpool Care Pathway.

 

Its something we should all consider Malcolm.

I respect the views of those who are against Euthanasia.

All I ask of them is that they equally respect the views of those who are in favour, and don't force their views on to others.

[nightrider]

What about Tony Nicholson the man with locked in syndrome, he had no quality of life and wanted to die but no doctor dared help him for fear of being charged with murder.

[Guest Peter James]

I think there was an over reaction after Shipman, that made all Doctors too restricted to administer pain relief.

As there will probably be after Savile, that makes adults too restricted in trying to help children.

[spospe]

Perhaps a partial answer would be to allow those that wanted to make a ‘living will’, detailing how they would wish to be treated at the end of their lives. This would have to be safeguarded, to ensure that people were not just ‘put to sleep’ when they became inconvenient; perhaps three doctors signatures and the consent of healthy relatives?

 

It does seem strange that we as individuals have so little control over the most important event in our adult life. I personally wish that at the end, if at all possible, I would like to have the opportunity to say goodbye to family and friends and then drift off on a warm pink cloud at a time of my choosing.

 

If at the end, I am unconscious / demented, then subject to medical opinion that there is no hope, then again I would wish to be let go.

 

This kind of subject does arouse strong feelings and I do not want to try and influence others, but this is the way I feel and the way I would like to be treated.