Minstrel Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 How can we accurately compute the weights of motorhome extras?I'm thinking of perhaps the weight of a larger engine to the basic, or adding cab air-con etc. Does any motorhome manufacturer list the weights of all the add-ons.It's possible of course, to find out the weight of the awning, bike racks and so on. I'm sure we all know someone who has found that their new motorhome doesn't have anything like the payload they expected. Is it the add ons or are the manufacturers econonomical with the truth over stated payloads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Swift group certainly do and I expect the others will as well, but you might need to study the brochure carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 The extra weights are the same for all chassis related changes so by chasing around from different makers websites you should be able to find out? On the other hand why not just ask the maker or dealer of the van you fancy to tell you? Economical with the truth is being very generous in my view. The converters are allowed a 5% variation to cover manufacturing differences and many of them appear to take full advantage of this tolerance. The only way to be sure is to make the MIRO a condition of purchase and then take the van to a weighbridge before you pay for it to get the individual axle weights and if the MIRO is less than the published figure cancel the deal. Or you can do what I am doing if you like the van and contact SVTech for details of what is needed to replate for a more realistic MAM (aka GVW). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 The concensus seems to be that nearly every new van (except the ones marketed at over 3.5 tonne) have a limited payload. Most owners cannot seem to manage without lots of gizmos and therein lies the problem. If I was to buy one of these vans I would insist on the dealer fitting a towbar and including a trailer in the deal. Otherwise they are of no use to me. Do a test drive and call into a weighbridge. It would be worth the expense just to see the look on the Salesmans face when you do. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Minstrel - 2012-11-12 5:02 PMHow can we accurately compute the weights of motorhome extras?I'm thinking of perhaps the weight of a larger engine to the basic, or adding cab air-con etc. Does any motorhome manufacturer list the weights of all the add-ons.It's possible of course, to find out the weight of the awning, bike racks and so on. I'm sure we all know someone who has found that their new motorhome doesn't have anything like the payload they expected. Is it the add ons or are the manufacturers econonomical with the truth over stated payloads? I assume you are proposing to order a new van to your specification? All the manufacturers I have looked at recently publish a technical brochure in which the weights of chassis, and conversion, options are clearly stated, including the way in which the usual starting point, the mass in running order, has been calculated.All have also stated that there is a tolerance on unladen weight of +5%. This is built into the BS-EN standard for declaring weights - no doubt at the instigation of the trade! This tolerance has the effect of potentially diminishing the published payload, but can easily be calculated. A zero upward tolerance would have been better, leaving only downward tolerance and hence more payload, but I doubt the buyers were consulted at the time. So, we are where we are! :-SBe aware that a growing number of converters are quoting fresh water capacity on the lines of 20/100 litres, when it is often the case that payload is quoted on the basis of just 20 litres being carried. Plainly, in the case I cite, this has the effect of increasing the published payload by 80kg, which is fine until you drive off with a full tank. Since payload is an issue for many vans, and converters compete for advantage, once one does this the others are more or less compelled to follow suit. It is a consequence of weak and rather woolly standards, and little to no enforceable regulation (the standards are codes of practise, and compliance is not a legal requirement). However, many in industry prefer "light touch" regulation, so this again is where we are. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstrel Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Thank you all for comments. We have ordered a Murvi Morocco, and while we have no problems with Murvi we are curious to know how much extra cab air-con adds for instance. We have kept add-ons to a minimum, decided not to have a solar panel as they provide two 110 batteries.I think our main problem with payload is going to be when we want to bring the wine and beer back from France! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 If you download the Fiat technical spec from here http://www.fiatprofessional.co.uk/uk/Brochures you can see the differences that engine options make, for other options you will need to consult the convertor, Adria used to list a lot of different weights such as spare wheel etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Minstrel - 2012-11-12 6:55 PMThank you all for comments. We have ordered a Murvi Morocco, and while we have no problems with Murvi we are curious to know how much extra cab air-con adds for instance. We have kept add-ons to a minimum, decided not to have a solar panel as they provide two 110 batteries.I think our main problem with payload is going to be when we want to bring the wine and beer back from France!You would be wise to consult Murvi over this. You say "extra cab air-con", which rather implies you may be contemplating a roof mounted Dometic unit in addition to the Fiat optional cab air-con? If so, be aware that some of the Murvi layouts result in the front axle accumulating load quite quickly, meaning heavier springing, or even a heavier chassis, may be required to avoid continual flirtation with the front axle limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstrel Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Brian, we ordered only cab air-con, which of course is an extra, together with bike rack and awning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Morning all, The other day whilst looking at new vehicle the sales man told me that all new imported vans from Germany now have automatic dump valves which will only allow you to carry 20 litres of water or 20 %, you are then expected then to fill up with water when you are on site. The reason I was given was that 90% of motorhomes are overloaded. This could have very serious implications for winter travellers in particular. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 goldi - 2012-11-13 8:54 AM Morning all, The other day whilst looking at new vehicle the sales man told me that all new imported vans from Germany now have automatic dump valves which will only allow you to carry 20 litres of water or 20 %, you are then expected then to fill up with water when you are on site. The reason I was given was that 90% of motorhomes are overloaded. This could have very serious implications for winter travellers in particular. norm My 2003 Burstner 747 is so badly designed that I need to travel with the minimum of water (or a bit more if my fuel tank is low). 8-) Everything heavy is on the UK nearside near the front. I can keep the total weight below the max on the front axle but as VOSA weigh each wheel independantly, I could still be in trouble. This is travelling with just the Wife and I (plus dogs). This van is designed to also carry 4 adults in a front double dinette. Vorsprung Durch Technik does not seem to apply to motorhome designers. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Minstrel - 2012-11-12 6:55 PMThank you all for comments. We have ordered a Murvi Morocco, and while we have no problems with Murvi we are curious to know how much extra cab air-con adds for instance. We have kept add-ons to a minimum, decided not to have a solar panel as they provide two 110 batteries.I think our main problem with payload is going to be when we want to bring the wine and beer back from France!That's strange, there was another thread concerning Murvi ???? but it seems to have dissapeared.Hope you didn't pay a £5000 deposit. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 goldi - 2012-11-13 8:54 AM Morning all, The other day whilst looking at new vehicle the sales man told me that all new imported vans from Germany now have automatic dump valves which will only allow you to carry 20 litres of water or 20 %, you are then expected then to fill up with water when you are on site. The reason I was given was that 90% of motorhomes are overloaded. This could have very serious implications for winter travellers in particular. norm I understand many manufacturers are trying to "talk up" their potentially inadequate payloads by quoting payload with 20 litres only in the fresh water tank. However, I have heard nothing of there being an automatic dump function, and rather suspect your informant may have his knickers round his neck! I have recently been researching Knaus, Hymer, Burstner and Dethleffs vans, and have seen nothing to that effect. Which make of German van were you looking at Norm? Or was it a UK made van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 when we bought our Burstner in 2007, the brochure stated all factory otpions available together with theweight 'penalty'. Ir also showed that you could have - as we did- the 3500 kg chassis instead of 3300kg, and this gave initially some 200kg additional payload, though you did have to offset the slight additional weight of some of the parts. However, we did calulate a 'rough'idea of what the empty motorhome would weigh, and felt the info supplied by Burstner very helpful.We had not come across this previously when buying Mh's and I dont know if the practice is still continued in the current brochures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Yes, Keith, it is still available for those brands I cited above. In fact, if you get the German version, it also gives the prices in Euros. With the exception of Burstner, the technical brochures published for UK carry no price information, leaving one to endlessly ask dealers (who have a price list) how much for this and that. If Burstner can do it (and the others can give the dealers the prices), why on earth don't they all just publish it to the public? What a waste of dealer time! Rant over! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Morning all, Brian Kirby, It wa s a hymer over at huddersfield norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 goldi - 2012-11-14 8:44 AM Morning all, Brian Kirby, It wa s a hymer over at huddersfield norm Hi Norm. Presumably Lowdhams, then! :-) I can find mention of the Mass in Running Order being calculated with 20 litres only on board for the purpose of arriving at the payload, in both the English (item b on page 38), and German (item b on page 50), priced technical brochures. Oddly, the French version of the priced technical brochure omits mention of the 20 litres, stating that the MIRO is calculated with the fresh water reservoir full (item b on page 50). However, the individual weights and measures section for each model does state fresh water capacity 20L "pendant la route", so its omission on page 50 seems to be a typo. All brochures are dated 1/7/12 and all were all downloaded from Hymer's website during October '12. There is no indication that this is governed by an automatic valve, though I guess a valve connected across the alternator B+ terminals (as for the automatic step retraction) would be simple. Bit annoying when you go to empty waste and fill the tank, and having driven back to your pitch find only 20L remaining though - so I somehow doubt it is automatic. Possibly remotely switched from the driving seat. Definitely worth checking if considering buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstrel Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 Ray, Yes we paid a £5000 deposit, and didn't expect anything else. If you order new double glazing you have to pay a deposit.We wanted a Murvi Morocco and have ordered it to our specification. There aren't any secondhand on the open market yet. We also understand that as they only build about one motorhome a week, we have to wait our turn. The premises aren't big enough to allow a larger work force (IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Minstrel - 2012-11-14 11:58 PMRay, Yes we paid a £5000 deposit, and didn't expect anything else...We wanted a Murvi Morocco and have ordered it to our specification. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Since I first ever saved up my paper-round money at age 12 to buy myself a brand new special-order push bike I've been subject to having to pay deposits for most any product or service, especially ones that are bespoke.I'm not sure where the expectation that small commercial undertakings should stand the risk of fickle customers squirming out of relatively high value deals comes from. Maybe people would feel differently if they were actually running a business and had been left holding the sh*tty stick a couple of times.It would be worth the risk and wait to me too to get what I actually wanted, rather than what some anonymous converter thinks I ought to have.Does the weight thing look like it might be a problem in your case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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