Nothing (directly) to do with Murvi

[HymerVan]

The thread about a Devon Based converter has become tedious and laboured but there are one or two issues of interest.

The first is that Murvi apparently routinely demand a large deposit (apparently £5,000 in the case in question which is probably around 10% of the original purchase price of the vehicle). They openly state that this sum is a "potential penalty" to discourage purchasers from not proceeding. So long as customers are willing (enthusiastically or otherwise) to go along with this there is little to be said however at least in Scotland (and probably England as well) clauses in contracts which are truly penal will not be enforced by the courts. What is enforceable is a liquidate damages provision where the parties make a realistic pre-estimate of loss. I have no idea whether Murvi's figure of £5,000 would stand up to challenge but it may not be the best idea to publish that it is a penalty.

I appreciate that Murvi would argue that due to the bespoke nature of their product they need a higher margin of protection.

Murvi also provide for passing on increases in base vehicle cost. Not all convertors do this and it used to be and possibly still is the case that in the wider car trade a purchaser has an option of proceeding or cancelling if a price increase overtakes delivery.

And what of protection against contractual failure from the purchasers side ? Well I doubt if any manufacturer will be willing to give any form of performance bond or guarantee and Credit Card protection will rarely apply due to the £30K limit (see earlier posts).

Without implying any slur on Murvi or anybody else I personally would not make a £5K unsecured loan to ANY company and in the motorhome industry dealers large and small have become insolvent in these tough times.

Perhaps the industry can come up with some sort of procedure to protect deposits but I don't suppose this will happen until there is a sufficient degree of customer resistance to paying high deposits.

The deposit for my new car was 2% and it does have Credit Card protection being well below £30K so I was relaxed about paying it.

 

[Guest Peter James]

I am old fashioned enough to believe my word is my bond, and if I make a deal, whether its good, bad, or indifferent, I will honour it.

So I would have no objection to paying 100% deposit if I trusted the person I was dealing with.

[ips]

I personally would not make a £5K unsecured loan to ANY company

 

No mate and niether would I :-S

[Guest JudgeMental]

Excellent post Lawrence! Have stopped looking in on other thread days ago....Terms and slow build a disaster waiting to happen.. Poor business model entirely responsible for situations like this arising

 

and as for the numpty willing to put down 100% I do wish there was an "ignore" button to filter out the drivel.

[hallii]

I have never paid any deposit whatsover for any new or second hand car I have purchased from a dealer (I did give the previous owner of my m/H £100 to cover advertising costs if I pulled out.)

 

They sometimes object, they have told me they cannot proceed with the order, but in every case they have accepted the order, sometimes after a week or so.

 

A signed order is a contract regardless of deposit, the more of us that refuse to pay deposits for something that is unseen, no fixed delivery date, and a host of other conditions in the small print, the more likely it is that they will stop asking.

 

Try it next time, just walk away if they say no, make sure they have your phone number so they can ring you up and change their minds!

 

H

 

EDIT: I forgot to say I do not ever have H.P. and in the case of H.P. then it is a different set of rules.

H

[malc d]

hallii - 2012-11-16 12:03 PM

 

I have never paid any deposit whatsover for any new or second hand car I have purchased from a dealer ............................

 

 

 

 

... but have you ever bought anything from a motorhome " converter " - who is in a completely different position to a dealer ?

 

 

(?)

[Guest Peter James]

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 11:20 AM

and as for the numpty willing to put down 100% I do wish there was an "ignore" button to filter out the drivel.

 

numpty here :-D

hard luck there is no ignore button to filter out the drivel :-(

I did say 'if I trusted them'

I'm not daft you know :$

 

seriously I was just trying to say I wouldn't renege on a deal.

If you do that you get a reputation as somebody who can't be trusted or relied on, and that costs you more in the end as it has already for a certain other numpty

 

The last new van I bought with a deposit of £500.

But it was an ordinary stock van - not a special custom build!!!

The dealer had to fetch it from another branch and register it, but nothing like the potential loss he would incur from a special custom build.

[Dave Newell]

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 11:20 AM

 

Excellent post Lawrence! Have stopped looking in on other thread days ago....Terms and slow build a disaster waiting to happen.. Poor business model entirely responsible for situations like this arising

 

and as for the numpty willing to put down 100% I do wish there was an "ignore" button to filter out the drivel.

 

Its such a poor business model they've only managed to stay in business for a mere thirty years!

 

D.

[Tracker]

It would be better for all if nobody stood in judgement of others.

 

We all make mistakes so lets work together using our combined experience and knowledge towards helping to find solutions without pointless continual digs and snide comments please.

 

It does not help.

[hallii]

malc d - 2012-11-16 12:13 PM

 

hallii - 2012-11-16 12:03 PM

 

I have never paid any deposit whatsover for any new or second hand car I have purchased from a dealer ............................

 

 

 

 

... but have you ever bought anything from a motorhome " converter " - who is in a completely different position to a dealer ?

 

 

 

No, but if I did, I would give my system a good try.

 

Why do the "sellers" draw up all the contract fine details? Why shouldn't we as customers draw up our own set of rules and get them to sign that? It's all a bit one sided at the moment.

 

I used to be involved on the "sellers" side of contracts (not vehicles), some of the conditions printed in fine print on the back used to make me cringe when reading them. No one ever read them through. One I remember said roughly " We own it, and we own it right up until we say we don't and we only say we don't own it after you have paid for it in full, if you miss a payment we own it outright!!"

 

H

 

 

(?)

[Bulletguy]

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 11:20 AM

 

Excellent post Lawrence! Have stopped looking in on other thread days ago....

 

 

Well there's another 'disaster' to get your teeth into. :-D

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29547&posts=2

 

Must admit i'm left asking myself why, when someone spends quite a large amount of money on a new motorhome........it comes out like a pile of crap!

[Guest JudgeMental]

Bulletguy - 2012-11-16 2:53 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 11:20 AM

 

Excellent post Lawrence! Have stopped looking in on other thread days ago....

 

 

Well there's another 'disaster' to get your teeth into. :-D

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29547&posts=2

 

Must admit i'm left asking myself why, when someone spends quite a large amount of money on a new motorhome........it comes out like a pile of crap!

 

Ha ha ha

 

I have no interest, as not forthcoming with detail, so useless to other members, so a pointless exercise...

 

Dont believe the hype - buy from stock only - avoid salesman and the patter like the plaque - do your OWN research and homework - no large deposits to firms without the confidence to buy base vehicles to build on - no long lead times - follow this advise and you will be far better served.

 

want a top class panel van: La Strada and Westphalia. amd others

 

want to spend less and get decent quality : Possl. Globecar.Hymer. Adria and many others

[bobalobs]

The only new car I have personally ever bought was a Morgan in 1969. At the time the waitng time was nine months and growing by the day.

The dealer required a £100 deposit before the order was accepted and a build slot allocated. Does not sound a lot nowadays but it represented 10% of the total price. The final price would be Morgans price at the time of delivery and not that at the time of order.No discounts were given.

It was made clear that the deposit would be lost if the purchaser had a change of mine and tried to cancel the contract.

I questioned why this should be with the waiting list that existed.I was told that the non refundable deposit concentrated purchasers minds as without a deposit people ordered on a romantic spur of the moment whim and thencancelled when the delivery date was imminent. At that time about 250new morgans a year were allocated to the British market with the result that "dreamers" were making the waiting list look longer than it actually was and this perceived wait was enough to put off some potential reall purchasers. It did not need many dreamers to order to have a significant effect on the waiting list.

Harvey Jones may not have liked the business plan but it has worked well for Morgan. Large manafacturers may be able to cope with the financial loss caused by dreamers change of mind but surely it is better to weed them out at the beginning?

[malc d]

Tracker - 2012-11-16 1:07 PM

 

It would be better for all if nobody stood in judgement of others.

 

.................................... without pointless continual digs and snide comments please.

 

It does not help.

 

 

............... do you mean like when you said I was talking " a load of spherical objects " on the other thread when I said something you didn't agree with ?

 

 

If so, I applaud your U-turn.

 

 

 

:-| :-|

[malc d]

Dave Newell - 2012-11-16 1:05 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 11:20 AM

 

Excellent post Lawrence! Have stopped looking in on other thread days ago....Terms and slow build a disaster waiting to happen.. Poor business model entirely responsible for situations like this arising

 

and as for the numpty willing to put down 100% I do wish there was an "ignore" button to filter out the drivel.

 

Its such a poor business model they've only managed to stay in business for a mere thirty years!

 

D.

 

 

 

Dave. I'm sure that you, and all regular forum readers are aware of Judgementals antipathy towards British built motor homes in general, and ' relentless' plugging of German makes.

 

Nothing wrong with that of course - it's his choice - but it should be bourn in mind when reading his posts.

 

 

:-|

[Tracker]

malc d - 2012-11-16 3:47 PM

............... do you mean like when you said I was talking " a load of spherical objects " on the other thread when I said something you didn't agree with ?

 

Sorry Malc - no U turn - the analogy you chose was in my view equivalent to a cartload of spherical objects but I did at least try to say so without being rude!

[Guest JudgeMental]

malc d - 2012-11-16 4:01 PM

 

Dave Newell - 2012-11-16 1:05 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 11:20 AM

 

Excellent post Lawrence! Have stopped looking in on other thread days ago....Terms and slow build a disaster waiting to happen.. Poor business model entirely responsible for situations like this arising

 

and as for the numpty willing to put down 100% I do wish there was an "ignore" button to filter out the drivel.

 

Its such a poor business model they've only managed to stay in business for a mere thirty years!

 

D.

 

 

 

Dave. I'm sure that you, and all regular forum readers are aware of Judgementals antipathy towards British built motor homes in general, and ' relentless' plugging of German makes.

 

Nothing wrong with that of course - it's his choice - but it should be bourn in mind when reading his posts.

 

 

:-|

 

And what exactly is wrong with that! I only buy in Europe because I am forced to...what with the lamentable quality and value for money offered here....Also as I dont have to deal with these shoe string operations shenanigans another bonus! *-)

[malc d]

Tracker - 2012-11-16 4:08 PM

 

malc d - 2012-11-16 3:47 PM

............... do you mean like when you said I was talking " a load of spherical objects " on the other thread when I said something you didn't agree with ?

 

Sorry Malc - no U turn - the analogy you chose was in my view equivalent to a cartload of spherical objects ................./QUOTE]

 

 

No.

Thought not -

.............. still the same level of ' debate '.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gwyn]

Blimey I think I've strayed onto the MSN forum the amount of insults there are

 

[Brian Kirby]

Tracker - 2012-11-16 1:07 PM

 

It would be better for all if nobody stood in judgement of others.

 

We all make mistakes so lets work together using our combined experience and knowledge towards helping to find solutions without pointless continual digs and snide comments please.

 

It does not help.

This piety sits ill with your usually mischievous line of comment Rich! :-) Have you been drinking the Holy Water again? Besides, if we can't judge others, who the hell can we judge? :-D

 

To you second point, I wholly agree, but I think that is, in fact, what we are all trying to do, but from differing perspectives. But then, those differing perspectives are what is needed for better understanding.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Brian Kirby - 2012-11-16 5:50 PM

 

Tracker - 2012-11-16 1:07 PM

 

It would be better for all if nobody stood in judgement of others.

 

We all make mistakes so lets work together using our combined experience and knowledge towards helping to find solutions without pointless continual digs and snide comments please.

 

It does not help.

This piety sits ill with your usually mischievous line of comment Rich! :-) Have you been drinking the Holy Water again? Besides, if we can't judge others, who the hell can we judge? :-D

 

To you second point, I wholly agree, but I think that is, in fact, what we are all trying to do, but from differing perspectives. But then, those differing perspectives are what is needed for better understanding.

 

Oy! Watch it! :D

 

Yep, typical Tracker holier then thou nonsense :-D

[Colin Leake]

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 4:52 PM

 

malc d - 2012-11-16 4:01 PM

 

Dave Newell - 2012-11-16 1:05 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 11:20 AM

 

Excellent post Lawrence! Have stopped looking in on other thread days ago....Terms and slow build a disaster waiting to happen.. Poor business model entirely responsible for situations like this arising

 

and as for the numpty willing to put down 100% I do wish there was an "ignore" button to filter out the drivel.

 

Its such a poor business model they've only managed to stay in business for a mere thirty years!

 

D.

 

 

 

Dave. I'm sure that you, and all regular forum readers are aware of Judgementals antipathy towards British built motor homes in general, and ' relentless' plugging of German makes.

 

Nothing wrong with that of course - it's his choice - but it should be bourn in mind when reading his posts.

 

 

:-|

 

And what exactly is wrong with that! I only buy in Europe because I am forced to...what with the lamentable quality and value for money offered here....Also as I dont have to deal with these shoe string operations shenanigans another bonus! *-)

 

Then there's me who only buys British made products where possible to support the country and provide jobs for British workers even if the firm is foreign owned. For the record we have an AutoTrail motorhome and presently Toyota car with a new Honda on order. Very happy with all of them.

 

I wonder what you do for a living and how you would get on if we all had your attitude.

[malc d]

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 4:52 PM

 

malc d - 2012-11-16 4:01 PM

 

Dave Newell - 2012-11-16 1:05 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 11:20 AM

 

Excellent post Lawrence! Have stopped looking in on other thread days ago....Terms and slow build a disaster waiting to happen.. Poor business model entirely responsible for situations like this arising

 

and as for the numpty willing to put down 100% I do wish there was an "ignore" button to filter out the drivel.

 

Its such a poor business model they've only managed to stay in business for a mere thirty years!

 

D.

 

 

 

Dave. I'm sure that you, and all regular forum readers are aware of Judgementals antipathy towards British built motor homes in general, and ' relentless' plugging of German makes.

 

Nothing wrong with that of course - it's his choice - but it should be bourn in mind when reading his posts.

 

 

:-|

 

And what exactly is wrong with that!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I refer you to the last line of what I said :

 

" Nothing wrong with that of course "

 

( Dunno how you managed to miss that )

 

 

;-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

malc d - 2012-11-16 7:29 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 4:52 PM

 

malc d - 2012-11-16 4:01 PM

 

Dave Newell - 2012-11-16 1:05 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2012-11-16 11:20 AM

 

Excellent post Lawrence! Have stopped looking in on other thread days ago....Terms and slow build a disaster waiting to happen.. Poor business model entirely responsible for situations like this arising

 

and as for the numpty willing to put down 100% I do wish there was an "ignore" button to filter out the drivel.

 

Its such a poor business model they've only managed to stay in business for a mere thirty years!

 

D.

 

 

 

Dave. I'm sure that you, and all regular forum readers are aware of Judgementals antipathy towards British built motor homes in general, and ' relentless' plugging of German makes.

 

Nothing wrong with that of course - it's his choice - but it should be bourn in mind when reading his posts.

 

 

:-|

 

And what exactly is wrong with that!

 

 

 

I refer you to the last line of what I said :

 

" Nothing wrong with that of course "

 

( Dunno how you managed to miss that )

 

 

;-)

 

I obviously saw that but you always criticise in this sly manner..with your get out of jail comment at end after the rudeness. All I try to do is show that better value available for less money ...mind your own business?

 

so your Japanese cars assembled in UK to get around trade embargoes and taxation, built here to get them into Europe on the cheap, damaging European products is OK... But buying a van from Europe is not... *-)

[George Collings]

Actually the Murvi business model is a bit older than 33 years. I recall driving past their works near Ashprington on my way to work at a job I left in 1968-69. They have been 'Doing it their way ' for at least 44 years.