Guest searchforsites Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 HI all This is my first post here but have been a camper/motorhome owner for many years. After being frustrated with many other websites, I have started to develop my own website to show all the motorhome parking (inc aires, stellplatze etc) plus campsites, France passion sites I have in my database. The site is http://www.searchforsites.co.uk The site is still very much in development mode and only shows a limited set of sites that I have. The about us, forum and contact links are not set up yet. The prime objective is to develop an offline version with mapping, but in the interim the site is very lite in terms of code so should still be mobile friendly. To use the site simply select the category or region from the drop down list then click on the map to show the icons. I am new to web development so there is a lot to do but it appears to be working on devices I have tested. Locations have either been collected from our tours, freely available downloads or data sets I have purchased. I am looking for advice/opinions on how best to show the data. By type i.e Show all France passion sites By region i.e Show all sites for Dordogne By Country i.e Show all sites for England By town i.e Enter town name and show within a radius of x km By map i.e drag marker on map and show all with radius of map center The restrictions are on the number of markers to show vs download times i.e The England map has 3500 markes and will take longer to draw than the 200 FP sites Would appreciate any feedback (Good or bad :-D ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camocam1 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 have had a very quick look and looks good to me so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest searchforsites Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Thanks for looking What set did you look at and did it load quickly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 would not load for me hope that helps... Sorry! my fault did not select area from top box.. *-) any chance of wild camping data base as well please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest searchforsites Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-11-22 6:05 PM would not load for me hope that helps... Sorry! my fault did not select area from top box.. *-) any chance of wild camping data base as well please... Do you mean it didn't load until you selected a region or didn't load at all? I do have some wild camping spots ( iahve nearly 20,000 locations) and will add any as I find them. Any data files greatly received (just need lat/lng and type or name of site) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Looks promising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 That is very handy thanks. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Looks promising - but UK certified sites only appear to be C & CC CS's. Maybe could do with CC CL's added. Likewise with some of the "French Aires" POI's which are freely available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 searchforsites - 2012-11-22 6:34 PM JudgeMental - 2012-11-22 6:05 PM would not load for me hope that helps... Sorry! my fault did not select area from top box.. *-) any chance of wild camping data base as well please... Do you mean it didn't load until you selected a region or didn't load at all? I do have some wild camping spots ( iahve nearly 20,000 locations) and will add any as I find them. Any data files greatly received (just need lat/lng and type or name of site) map was blank until I visited second time and selected UK from drop down box. well done! good effort :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach2000 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I found it very easy to use, all the different sites loaded very quickly and will definately use the site to help me plan my future trips. Keep up the good work. Clive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Obviously only you know what ultimate plans you have for your website but, if you intend to make it comprehensive, it will be a mammoth task to acquire the data never mind display them. For example, you say your website currently provides the location of 200 FP sites, but the current number of FP sites is around 1700 and (as far as I'm aware) there's no soft-copy FP database you can obtain to add the rest easily. And then there's the challenge of keeping the data current, as all of the categories (FP sites , aires, campsites, parking places) involve continual data fluidity. Regarding displaying the information, I'm fond of the campingcar-infos (cc-i) approach as that's been progressively developed over more than 10 years and works for me. I'm not sure the ability to select/display by town-name (something added to cc-i fairly recently) is that important, though it can be handy and I use it because it's there. Personally, I'm more interested in this type of website's coverage and accuracy than its look and feel. I'd rather have a slightly cranky website that has up-to-date information on, say, all the 'aires' in France, than a glittery website that covers 50% of the aires with questionable accuracy. It's apparent from earlier forum comments that people are prepared to plan their motorcaravanning holidays using a variety of websites that carry subsets of the same information, but that's not for me. Good luck - it will be interesting to see how your brainchild develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest searchforsites Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 flicka - 2012-11-22 10:27 PM Looks promising - but UK certified sites only appear to be C & CC CS's. Maybe could do with CC CL's added. Likewise with some of the "French Aires" POI's which are freely available. The CS's are shown as a separate 'category', if you select the 'England' category that shows CS's, CLS, and club sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest searchforsites Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 coach2000 - 2012-11-23 12:42 AM I found it very easy to use, all the different sites loaded very quickly and will definately use the site to help me plan my future trips. Keep up the good work. Clive. Thanks Clive, Keep checking back for updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest searchforsites Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-11-23 9:47 AM Obviously only you know what ultimate plans you have for your website but, if you intend to make it comprehensive, it will be a mammoth task to acquire the data never mind display them. For example, you say your website currently provides the location of 200 FP sites, but the current number of FP sites is around 1700 and (as far as I'm aware) there's no soft-copy FP database you can obtain to add the rest easily. And then there's the challenge of keeping the data current, as all of the categories (FP sites , aires, campsites, parking places) involve continual data fluidity. Regarding displaying the information, I'm fond of the campingcar-infos (cc-i) approach as that's been progressively developed over more than 10 years and works for me. I'm not sure the ability to select/display by town-name (something added to cc-i fairly recently) is that important, though it can be handy and I use it because it's there. Personally, I'm more interested in this type of website's coverage and accuracy than its look and feel. I'd rather have a slightly cranky website that has up-to-date information on, say, all the 'aires' in France, than a glittery website that covers 50% of the aires with questionable accuracy. It's apparent from earlier forum comments that people are prepared to plan their motorcaravanning holidays using a variety of websites that carry subsets of the same information, but that's not for me. Good luck - it will be interesting to see how your brainchild develops. Thanks for the feedback, dont disagree with any point . The FP book was one of the main reasons I started this project. I find the instructions in the FP book very poor and caused much frustration between the pilot and navigator :-( so I am plowing through the book and using google earth and other resources to locate the actual FP site and plot on the map (Its amazing how many I have found that bear no resemblance to the instructions given !) RE camping cars info, I find the site very good in terms of the data but the implementation is poor and the scripts very slow at running (continually stalling the browser) As you say to maintaining the data is always the biggest problem with ANY site like this and can never be 100% accurate but I have a few plans to build the sites profile with site owners as well as the camping fraternity. The pic attached (hopefully) shows a fusion table map that shows the density of the info I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 It's your website to do with what you will, but I do wonder about how the management of the France Passion scheme will feel about what you intend. If you have the FP book I assume you are a member of the scheme, in which case you'll be aware that GPS coordinates for FP-sites are deliberately omitted from the instructions on how to find the sites, apparently at the request of the site 'hosts'. However, each of your FP-site entries carries GPS coordinates. I fully accept that the instructions in the FP book can be vague, ambiguous or (in some cases) badly inaccurate, and that GPS coordinates would be a boon for motorhome visitors, but I'm not sure if you have a 'right' to provide them. I've no idea if the France Passion management could do anything about it if you choose (without their approval) to provide in the public domain, the level of FP-site detail you've got on your website. But, if FP-site hosts genuinely don't want their properties to be identified other than by the instructions in the FP book, and then discover there's a website with FP-site GPS coordinates, it might lead to friction. Also, if your website is in the public domain, it might result in FP-site visits by people not in the FP scheme. Of course, it may well be that you've already addressed these points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest searchforsites Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-11-23 3:10 PM It's your website to do with what you will, but I do wonder about how the management of the France Passion scheme will feel about what you intend. If you have the FP book I assume you are a member of the scheme, in which case you'll be aware that GPS coordinates for FP-sites are deliberately omitted from the instructions on how to find the sites, apparently at the request of the site 'hosts'. However, each of your FP-site entries carries GPS coordinates. I fully accept that the instructions in the FP book can be vague, ambiguous or (in some cases) badly inaccurate, and that GPS coordinates would be a boon for motorhome visitors, but I'm not sure if you have a 'right' to provide them. I've no idea if the France Passion management could do anything about it if you choose (without their approval) to provide in the public domain, the level of FP-site detail you've got on your website. But, if FP-site hosts genuinely don't want their properties to be identified other than by the instructions in the FP book, and then discover there's a website with FP-site GPS coordinates, it might lead to friction. Also, if your website is in the public domain, it might result in FP-site visits by people not in the FP scheme. Of course, it may well be that you've already addressed these points. I have pondered on this point and came to the conclusion that I don't see much difference between posting FP locations and CS or CL's or caravan club sites or camping and caravan club sites. They are all sites where membership of the respective 'club' is required. Our experience of FP sites is that the owners aren't particularly bothered wether you are members or not. They are just happy to accept you as guests and if you buy some produce they are even happier. If you check the site it clearly mentions that membership is required with a link to their site. Same with CC & CCC. A wider view suggests no one can 'own' co ordinates for a location - it's a point on earth. And these locations are all businesses who want people to know where they - just look at their own website pages. Many, if not all other, websites of the same nature show FP sites, some clearly stating they are FP sites and some not, just saying they are overnight aires and I know just because someone else does it, does not make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest searchforsites Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Still in demo mode but added a couple more category's to select from A new category Independent campsites A couple more departments Lot Ardeche And the Rhone Alpes region Also added a contact form and an experimental google map that uses googles fusion tables and shows all the markers, but you get less control on the icons using this method. (shown on the About Us page) http://www.searchforsites.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach2000 Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 searchforsites - 2012-11-30 6:22 PM Still in demo mode but added a couple more category's to select from A new category Independent campsites A couple more departments Lot Ardeche And the Rhone Alpes region Also added a contact form and an experimental google map that uses googles fusion tables and shows all the markers, but you get less control on the icons using this method. (shown on the About Us page) Brilliant, been able to pinpoint 1 Aire and 1 Parking spot to stop on in January in the Rhone Alps. Dead easy to use and transfer the data to my itinary. Clive. http://www.searchforsites.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 searchforsites - 2012-11-25 3:20 PM Derek Uzzell - 2012-11-23 3:10 PM It's your website to do with what you will, but I do wonder about how the management of the France Passion scheme will feel about what you intend. If you have the FP book I assume you are a member of the scheme, in which case you'll be aware that GPS coordinates for FP-sites are deliberately omitted from the instructions on how to find the sites, apparently at the request of the site 'hosts'. However, each of your FP-site entries carries GPS coordinates. I fully accept that the instructions in the FP book can be vague, ambiguous or (in some cases) badly inaccurate, and that GPS coordinates would be a boon for motorhome visitors, but I'm not sure if you have a 'right' to provide them. I've no idea if the France Passion management could do anything about it if you choose (without their approval) to provide in the public domain, the level of FP-site detail you've got on your website. But, if FP-site hosts genuinely don't want their properties to be identified other than by the instructions in the FP book, and then discover there's a website with FP-site GPS coordinates, it might lead to friction. Also, if your website is in the public domain, it might result in FP-site visits by people not in the FP scheme. Of course, it may well be that you've already addressed these points. I have pondered on this point and came to the conclusion that I don't see much difference between posting FP locations and CS or CL's or caravan club sites or camping and caravan club sites. They are all sites where membership of the respective 'club' is required. Our experience of FP sites is that the owners aren't particularly bothered wether you are members or not. They are just happy to accept you as guests and if you buy some produce they are even happier. If you check the site it clearly mentions that membership is required with a link to their site. Same with CC & CCC. A wider view suggests no one can 'own' co ordinates for a location - it's a point on earth. And these locations are all businesses who want people to know where they - just look at their own website pages. Many, if not all other, websites of the same nature show FP sites, some clearly stating they are FP sites and some not, just saying they are overnight aires and I know just because someone else does it, does not make it right. OK, but (as I'm sure you know) the FAQ section of the France Passion website contains the following: "5. Do you provide GPS coordinates for the stopover sites ? No. Firstly because many of our properties are set deep in the countryside, and experience shows that Sat Nav systems frequently send vehicles along routes inappropriate or impassable for motorhomes (farm or forest tracks etc.). Our invitations are updated every year, outdated versions circulate without any sort of control. For example, this year 150 hosts have left the network and, each for their own reasons no longer wish to welcome motorhomes to their properties, (retirement, death, tired of motorhomes etc.). Conversely 250 new hosts have joined us in 2011. The contract we sign with the farmers and winegrowers stipulates that we will only disclose their addresses to up to date France Passion members. Only paid up members of the France Passion network can use the stopover sites. Publishing the GPS coordinates for each site could allow anyone to access the private properties where you are a privileged guest: - non-member motorhomes occupying the sites reserved for members only. - non motorhome owners (campers, caravans etc.) We believe the best way to guarantee both you and your host's tranquillity is not to publish this information. Please note that postcodes and road numbers are mentioned in the directions to each site, and these can be entered into a Sat Nav system to bring you close to your destination. France Passion signs guide you the last few metres from an easily recognisable waypoint such as a village centre or crossroads." As (presumably) you will be using FP's own literature to allow you to identify FP sites that you haven't visited yourself, I suggest there's a 'moral conflict' between your provision of GPS coordinates and FP's policy of not providing them. It may be that the France Passion people will have no objection to what you are doing, but the only way to find that out would be for you to ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Steering dangerously towards breach of copyright with FP by the look of things.......and going directly against what the farmers agreed to when they allowed FP to use their Satnav co-ordinates........... How about contacting FP and asking for their written permission to copy and re-publish their database, before doing so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 BGD - 2012-12-01 9:25 AM Steering dangerously towards breach of copyright with FP by the look of things.......and going directly against what the farmers agreed to when they allowed FP to use their Satnav co-ordinates........... How about contacting FP and asking for their written permission to copy and re-publish their database, before doing so? I think you are missing a significant point... A while ago France Passion sent a questionnaire to members asking for comments. When I returned it I suggested that, because the driving-instructions in the FP guide were often difficult to follow, providing GPS coordinates would be very useful for FP members. I was referred to the part of the FP website's FAQ section that I've quoted above. As far as I know France Passion does not seek to collect GPS coordinates address-details from farmers/winegrowers in the scheme. Even if some farmers/winegrowers provide GPS coordinates to France Passion, those coordinates are not published in the FP guide, and it's clear from the FAQ section that this policy is deliberate. What searchforsites is doing (as I understand it) is to use the location-instructions in the FP guide to roughly identify an FP site's geographic position, then using GOOGLE Earth etc. to accurately pin down where the FP site is and allow GPS coordinates for that FP site to be obtained. As I said earlier, with another 1500 FP sites to add to searchforsites's database, this will be a helluva task. As the contents of the FP guide are the intellectual property of France Passion, and it's evident that France Passion are unprepared to provide GPS coordinates for their sites, I'd question whether searchforsites (as a member of the France Passion scheme) has a right to do what he's doing without FP's prior consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 First, an admission - I don't use sites. But, extrapolating the idea to informal overnighting spots, by far the best way to see options for me would be to type in a place name (nearest city / town) and for all sites within a given radius to be shown. From that 'arrival' point a facility to then drag the map with all sites within a given radius of the map centre being displayed would allow a widening of search / fine tuning of plans. Looks pretty good. Maintaining accurate datasets for each of the different kind of site is going to be tricky; though I imagine that's something you've thought of. So many different kinds of site with so many different kinds of scheme / ownership / administration. Probably worth an explanation of the pre-requisites for using types of sites. If someone from the USA for eg was to hire a motorhome in England they'd probably need to fully understand the concept of CLs and CSs, pub-stop schemes, and the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 France Passion have previously halted GPSPassion from listing their entries in GPS mode, and I assume that you have obtained permission from Camping car-Infos for the use of their property? From CC-I site:- Les photos, logos et informations présentées sur ce site sont la propriété exclusive du webmaster. Toute reproduction nécessite son accord préalable.© Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 It looks excellent, and no doubt a huge amount of work put into it, well done. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Strachan Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I see that there appears to be no sites in Scotland, Wales, Ireland! Why when you are displaying a UK map, when you click on England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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