Gas-Lo System

[Guest machra]

I fitted a filler point inside a gas locker on a previous van. However I found that to get the LPG fill gun attached to the filler point it had to be fitted central within the locker. I mounted it on a gaslow bracket that was attached to a piece of wood that spanned the locker. The wood was itself attached to the locker. Dont underestimate the space needed to attach the fill gun.

[Guest machra]

I know this has been done to death on the forum before but having posted on this thread earlier I have just been doing the sums of buying a refillable system as we ordered a new van at the NEC show and the dealer wouldn’t stretch to a gaslow in with the deal.

 

Go-outdoors sell a 13kg calor propane refill for £22.95 - working out at approximately 88 pence per litre. My local LPG fuel station sells LPG as 80 pence per litre - today’s price. At a difference of 8p per litre you would have to go through one heck of a lot of gas to make your money back on the initial outlay of refillable bottles, based on a single bottle gaslow system costing about £200. Including the £30 deposit for the calor bottle you have to use over 2000 litres of gas before you paid for the gaslow system. Now I know that part of the benefit of the gaslow is not having to mess with cylinders again, the ability to refill in Europe etc etc etc, BUT the figures (if they are right!!) do show you have to use a lot of gas to make your initial outlay back.

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

We came to that conclusion,especially after switching to the 13kg bottle...

Our usage(a mix of sites,non-hookup CLs and festival camping) just didn't warrant the outlay..as it is the 13kg lasts us a year....

Now if only they did a 13kg "lite",that would be even better.... (lol)

[Guest JudgeMental]

if you hardly ever venture out of the UK refillable probably an expensive indulgence.. but its the convenience and peace of mind the system offers when abroad the reason must go for it. So that has to countered into the cost. also once bought you just transfer to new van.....personally cant be bothered with lugging and changing bottles over and 6 years on the cost means little.

[maggyd]

I agree, everything has a price! and for the ease of not having to lug a heavy bottle to exchange it, also the last fill on the old van in Germany cost us about 8euro :-D its the same as filling your van with water !! who would like to go back to trailing to the water tap in the rain to fill your water barrel No thank you!! if you want an easier life as you get older pay up ;-) then forget about it.

[Guest JudgeMental]

cerro - 2012-12-03 5:41 PM

 

Its not stainless. and like I said the cheapest is £49.00 upwards. ring them up and ask!!!!!!

 

 

By all means if you think you need stainless buy them...... Rubber hoses are used in high pressure hydraulic installations so gas hardly stressing them.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

If you don't want to manhandle large exchangeable gas-bottles, you could just refill them in the UK and abroad using a readily available adapter. For example http://tinyurl.com/clvzfhb

 

Admittedly this practice rides roughshod over the hire conditions imposed by the suppliers of exchangeable gas-bottles, and usually over LPG filling-station prohbitions too. Nevertheless, it's a significantly cheaper approach than buying a bottle specifically designed for user-refilling and (based on forum discussions about overloading, licencing, etc.) the practice's very questionable legality, plus the potential risks involved, may not worry every motorcaravanner. ;-)

[sambukashot]

Here is a photo of my filler fitted inside the gas compartment, hope it might be usefull

http://www.camperstops.co.uk/images/gaslow.jpg

[bolero boy]

Mine is similar to the photo above except that we can only get one 11kg bottle in the locker.

For refilling we have all the necessary adapters and have worked well so far in the uk and France.

We at now in Spain and will not need to fill before we leave for home so haven't ad a chance to try the Spanish adapter.

We also have a 'jumbo' adapter for use wit a Spanish repsol or cepsa bottle which are available here.

My question is, if iwe ran out in our gaslow bottle and wanted to use a spanish bottle, i wouldnt want to swap the bottles over in the locker. is there a long hose with connectios to the locker sited regulator with connections for our jumbo so that we could stand the bottle outside on the floor?

Hope this makes sense, looking for a long hose, rubber or stainless, to reach from regulator to bottle on the ground, say 1.5 m.

Thanks.

[Iain Strachan]

Pepe and Macha, are quite right, if you are content to stay in UK, however its much less stressful to have refillable, if you intend to tour in Europe, for extended periods. Which is why I made the decision in the original post. I am amazed at the way the thread has grown, and have learned a lot from it, with regard to others usage of Gas-lo and gas in general. Thanks all

Iain

[BGD]

bolero boy - 2012-12-05 11:00 AM

 

Mine is similar to the photo above except that we can only get one 11kg bottle in the locker.

For refilling we have all the necessary adapters and have worked well so far in the uk and France.

We at now in Spain and will not need to fill before we leave for home so haven't ad a chance to try the Spanish adapter.

We also have a 'jumbo' adapter for use wit a Spanish repsol or cepsa bottle which are available here.

My question is, if iwe ran out in our gaslow bottle and wanted to use a spanish bottle, i wouldnt want to swap the bottles over in the locker. is there a long hose with connectios to the locker sited regulator with connections for our jumbo so that we could stand the bottle outside on the floor?

Hope this makes sense, looking for a long hose, rubber or stainless, to reach from regulator to bottle on the ground, say 1.5 m.

Thanks.

 

Yes there is, and it's easy peasy too.

Just go to any DIY store ("bricolage") in Spain and they'll have either (or both) of the following in stock......pre-packaged orange coloured flexible hosepipe, with a couple of jubilee clips..........or the same hose, but on a jumbo roll from which you just cut off the length that you want.

If you don't see them on the shelf, ask:

"Puedes ponerme una manguera flexible para butano, de dos metros".

 

They even have male-to-male metal pieces so that you can join two lengths of such flexi hose together, again using jubilee clips.

Everyone in Spain and Portugal uses this type of flexible hoses plus the big push-on Spanish bottle-top regulators, in their houses (everyone is on bottled gas here) and almost all motorhomes too.

 

And (shock horror to Brits) everyone simply fits and changes those hoses themselves just using a screwdriver on the jubilee clip once you've pushed the ends of the hose onto the fittings.

 

If you get stuck or want any more info, give me a shout.

 

 

 

 

 

(In edit:)

Here's a link to some sold in AKI shops across Spain( they're a bit like B & Q etc), but all other DIY shops, and also many of the big Hypermarkets stock them too.

The "on the roll" flexi-tubing is probably more common in the smaller, family-owned type of "ferreteria" (hardware shop).:

http://catalogo.aki.es/calefaccion/calefaccion-de-gas-butano/accesorios-de-butano/manguera-flexible-gas-butano/idp439

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

BGD - 2012-12-05 2:50 PM

 

bolero boy - 2012-12-05 11:00 AM

 

Mine is similar to the photo above except that we can only get one 11kg bottle in the locker.

For refilling we have all the necessary adapters and have worked well so far in the uk and France.

We at now in Spain and will not need to fill before we leave for home so haven't ad a chance to try the Spanish adapter.

We also have a 'jumbo' adapter for use wit a Spanish repsol or cepsa bottle which are available here.

My question is, if iwe ran out in our gaslow bottle and wanted to use a spanish bottle, i wouldnt want to swap the bottles over in the locker. is there a long hose with connectios to the locker sited regulator with connections for our jumbo so that we could stand the bottle outside on the floor?

Hope this makes sense, looking for a long hose, rubber or stainless, to reach from regulator to bottle on the ground, say 1.5 m.

Thanks.

 

Yes there is, and it's easy peasy too.

Just go to any DIY store ("bricolage") in Spain and they'll have either (or both) of the following in stock......pre-packaged orange coloured flexible hosepipe, with a couple of jubilee clips..........or the same hose, but on a jumbo roll from which you just cut off the length that you want.

If you don't see them on the shelf, ask:

"Puedes ponerme una manguera flexible para butano, de dos metros".

 

They even have male-to-male metal pieces so that you can join two lengths of such flexi hose together, again using jubilee clips.

Everyone in Spain and Portugal uses this type of flexible hoses plus the big push-on Spanish bottle-top regulators, in their houses (everyone is on bottled gas here) and almost all motorhomes too.

 

And (shock horror to Brits) everyone simply fits and changes those hoses themselves just using a screwdriver on the jubilee clip once you've pushed the ends of the hose onto the fittings.

 

If you get stuck or want any more info, give me a shout.

 

 

 

 

 

(In edit:)

Here's a link to some sold in AKI shops across Spain( they're a bit like B & Q etc), but all other DIY shops, and also many of the big Hypermarkets stock them too.

The "on the roll" flexi-tubing is probably more common in the smaller, family-owned type of "ferreteria" (hardware shop).:

http://catalogo.aki.es/calefaccion/calefaccion-de-gas-butano/accesorios-de-butano/manguera-flexible-gas-butano/idp439

 

Bruce, I'm not sure you are thinking of the same type of hose as bolero boy needs.

 

From your description, what you are thinking of is the the low pressure hose from cylinder mounted regulator to system.

 

Bolero boy says his regulator is gas locker mounted, meaning the hose he requires is a high pressure hose.

 

Not only is that hose different in construction, but my understanding is it must be crimped on to the fittings at either end, for safety reasons. Jubilee clips are not regarded as adequate fixing for high pressure hose in UK, and I seem to remember Spanish gas regs are generally more conservative than here, so would be a bit surprised if jubilees are acceptable for high pressure hoses in Spain.

[cerro]

Its not the high pressure that is the problem Part of it would be out side and low down wide open to being damaged. As an ex MOT inspector I can tell you that rubber pipes on all vehcles low down are protected by a spring like metal protector.

And I was just curious to see a 600m kit at £72 a 1.6m kit £72 and just a 1.6m stainless hose at anyware between £49 to £92

[bolero boy]

Thanks Bruce for the info, I have seen these hoses locally. However, Brian spotted that I was after a hose to fit onto my locker mounted regulator. This has a threaded connection and the hose currently runs from the gaslow (butane fitting although LPG gas) to the threaded regulator.

I think I need the same type of hose but longer as the jumbo connector I have is only a connector not a regulator too and also threaded so no jubilee clips involved although for emergencies I can see this will do the job.

I think I found one at the outdoor bits site, rubber 1.5 m for £20.

Many thanks for all the help.

 

[BGD]

bolero boy - 2012-12-05 9:35 PM

 

Thanks Bruce for the info, I have seen these hoses locally. However, Brian spotted that I was after a hose to fit onto my locker mounted regulator. This has a threaded connection and the hose currently runs from the gaslow (butane fitting although LPG gas) to the threaded regulator.

I think I need the same type of hose but longer as the jumbo connector I have is only a connector not a regulator too and also threaded so no jubilee clips involved although for emergencies I can see this will do the job.

I think I found one at the outdoor bits site, rubber 1.5 m for £20.

Many thanks for all the help.

 

 

OK, good.

 

I know that several people who come down to Spain in UK MH's to overwinter, have actually had an extra "T" put into their gas pipe in the gas cupboard, inboard of their UK bulkhead regulator, which leads to a valve, and thence to an end joint which accepts a push-on-and-jubilee-clip-into-place orange flexible " Spanish" pipe, which terminates at an on-bottle Spanish 30mbar regulator. So essentially they are just bypassing their bulkhead mounted UK regulator, in favour of an on-bottle Spanish one.

 

Thus when here, they turn off their UK gas bottle, open the valve to the other line at the T-switch, and feed Spanish gas into the MH via the on-bottle Spanish regulator and orange flexible rubber pipe.

Same goes for Portugal, as all the bottles, and on-bottle regulators are exactly the same there as in Spain.

 

Maybe worth thinking about for people who tour/stay down here for longish periods; and I know that motorhome dealer workshops here will do this mod for you very cheaply, as a friend of mine got his UK MK done whilst here a couple of years ago.

Spanish gas (butano) is now currently about 16 euros to swop an empty-for-full 13kg bottle at any Repsol or Cepsa retail outlet.....I believe this is substantially cheaper than the Uk bottle price, which may pay for such a gas pipe mod in only a week or so?

 

[BGD]

Oops, double post.

[Mel B]

machra - I'm not sure that your calculations are correct.

 

When you use a Calor 13kg bottle, it holds around 26 litres of gas, however, you don't ever use up all the gas as it will stop flowing before it is empty, so you're probably giving back around 2 litres (at a guess) when you then get another bottle, so in fact your cost per litre would be more like 96p per litre and you would get around 24 litres for £22.95 (ie the 'usable' gas). However the cost of a Calor exchange according to their website is £25.49 making the cost per litre of gas at £1.09.

 

With a refillable 11kg bottle which holds around 21 litres of gas, except for the initial fill of a new bottle, as you never give back the bottle you keep the unused 2 litres in it, so you are paying only for the top up of 19 litres at around 73p per litre each time which is the cost of Autogas near us.

 

Therefore there is a difference of 36p per litre of gas, not 8p per litre ... unless I've totally miscalculated!!! :D

 

Our single 13kg bottle Gaslow system cost around £227 (I think!) so it would still take a while to get back the cost of the system from the gas refill savings however, around 631 litres in total based on the above 36p difference, but it is the convenience and ease that makes up for this outlay and I certainly wouldn't want to go back to having a standard Calor bottle especially as we go abroad for a good few weeks at a time so getting refills aren't a problem. It also means that we don't have to take an extra Calor bottle with us (extra weight and cost) to ensure we have enough gas.

[Derek Uzzell]

Mel B - 2012-12-05 10:55 PM

 

...When you use a Calor 13kg bottle, it holds around 26 litres of gas, however, you don't ever use up all the gas as it will stop flowing before it is empty, so you're probably giving back around 2 litres (at a guess) when you then get another bottle...

 

 

2 litres of 'unusable' LPG seems a very pessimistic guess to me. When the Calor 15kg bottle in my room-heater stops providing gas it is near as dammit empty. Similarly, with the composite bottle I use in the motorhome (where I can see how much LPG remains in the bottle) "empty" means empty. There will normally be a some LPG left in the bottle when high-demand gas appliances (say, a Truma Combi heater) will no longer function, but the quantity really won't be sufficient to factor into cost calculations.

 

The per-litre cost difference between Calor LPG and Autogas LPG depends on how cheaply both can be obtained. If Calor LPG is quoted at its highest available price and Autogas LPG at a lowest available price, the per-litre cost difference will be at its widest in favour of Autogas. If the Calor price is quoted at its minimum and the Autogas price at its maximum, there may be little per-litre cost difference. The bigger the price difference (and the more gas you use) the more attractive a refillable LPG system becomes. The smaller the price difference (and the less gas you use) the less attractive financially a refillable system will appear to be.

 

Your calculations produce a break-even figure of 631 litres of gas usage (as opposed to machra's 2000 litres), but that's still equivalent to 24 x 13kg Calor bottles - which will be a lot of LPG for many motorcaravanners. It may well be that the initial expense of a refillable LPG system will never be recouped if just the per-litre price diffeence is taken into account. However, if the 'asset-value' of the refillable system is allowed for (ie. it is anticipated that the system will eventually be removed from the motorhome and sold), things look much rosier.

[derek pringle]

Hi Iain,

You must remember that you can only fill Gaslow cylinders up to the 80% rule. therefore you can never get

the full quantity that may be theoretically possible in the cylinder.

cheers

derek

 

edit,

this year we had 2 hols abroad, one through to Italy and the other staying solely in France lasting about 12 weeks total, plus a couple of breaks in this country. We have a 2 cyl. 11kg set up with auto changeover valve. I make sur the cyls are topped up at the start of each year. This year when we filled up on our return home the cost was approx. £4.50.

As for the initial expense, this is one of those things but at least with gaslow you can refit it to your next van should you change.

d.

[Iain Strachan]

Thanks Derek, One of my main reasons for moving to refillable is that the Aspire has a small gas locker, ie 2x6kg. Since retiring we have done a 9 week trip France Germany in our old van and a 10 weeker n the new one. The old van I carried 1x13kg butane and1x7kg.propane. Because the under bed storeage is so low in the new van I can only carry a 3.5 kg spare. On the 10week trip we got down to just about having to use the spare. Therefore if, as we intend, we want to spend longer away, in the winter, using aires on the way to Spain we would have run oot of gas, the Pussy cat would be cold and thats a disaster!

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts.

Cheers

[bolero boy]

BGD - 2012-12-05 10:46 PM

 

bolero boy - 2012-12-05 9:35 PM

 

Thanks Bruce for the info, I have seen these hoses locally. However, Brian spotted that I was after a hose to fit onto my locker mounted regulator. This has a threaded connection and the hose currently runs from the gaslow (butane fitting although LPG gas) to the threaded regulator.

I think I need the same type of hose but longer as the jumbo connector I have is only a connector not a regulator too and also threaded so no jubilee clips involved although for emergencies I can see this will do the job.

I think I found one at the outdoor bits site, rubber 1.5 m for £20.

Many thanks for all the help.

 

 

OK, good.

 

I know that several people who come down to Spain in UK MH's to overwinter, have actually had an extra "T" put into their gas pipe in the gas cupboard, inboard of their UK bulkhead regulator, which leads to a valve, and thence to an end joint which accepts a push-on-and-jubilee-clip-into-place orange flexible " Spanish" pipe, which terminates at an on-bottle Spanish 30mbar regulator. So essentially they are just bypassing their bulkhead mounted UK regulator, in favour of an on-bottle Spanish one.

 

Thus when here, they turn off their UK gas bottle, open the valve to the other line at the T-switch, and feed Spanish gas into the MH via the on-bottle Spanish regulator and orange flexible rubber pipe.

Same goes for Portugal, as all the bottles, and on-bottle regulators are exactly the same there as in Spain.

 

Maybe worth thinking about for people who tour/stay down here for longish periods; and I know that motorhome dealer workshops here will do this mod for you very cheaply, as a friend of mine got his UK MK done whilst here a couple of years ago.

Spanish gas (butano) is now currently about 16 euros to swop an empty-for-full 13kg bottle at any Repsol or Cepsa retail outlet.....I believe this is substantially cheaper than the Uk bottle price, which may pay for such a gas pipe mod in only a week or so?

thanks again Bruce, definitely something to bear in mind for next year.

[bolero boy]

Iain Strachan - 2012-12-06 3:32 PM

 

Thanks Derek, One of my main reasons for moving to refillable is that the Aspire has a small gas locker, ie 2x6kg. Since retiring we have done a 9 week trip France Germany in our old van and a 10 weeker n the new one. The old van I carried 1x13kg butane and1x7kg.propane. Because the under bed storeage is so low in the new van I can only carry a 3.5 kg spare. On the 10week trip we got down to just about having to use the spare. Therefore if, as we intend, we want to spend longer away, in the winter, using aires on the way to Spain we would have run oot of gas, the Pussy cat would be cold and thats a disaster!

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts.

Cheers

iain, have you tried to fit in just one 11kg gaslow in the locker? We had 2 x 6kg calor but were able to squeeze in one 11kg gaslow.

This makes the new system far cheaper (only one cylinder and less hoses and valves) and also MIT leave room in the locker for things like ramps hoses toilet fluid etc.

Also see my earlier post and BGDs replies re additional hose and fitting for Spanish bottle as backup.

[Mel B]

derek pringle - 2012-12-06 10:11 AM

 

Hi Iain,

You must remember that you can only fill Gaslow cylinders up to the 80% rule. therefore you can never get

the full quantity that may be theoretically possible in the cylinder.

cheers

derek

Yes, but you are not paying for any gas that you don't use, only what you do.

 

edit,

this year we had 2 hols abroad, one through to Italy and the other staying solely in France lasting about 12 weeks total, plus a couple of breaks in this country. We have a 2 cyl. 11kg set up with auto changeover valve. I make sur the cyls are topped up at the start of each year. This year when we filled up on our return home the cost was approx. £4.50.

As for the initial expense, this is one of those things but at least with gaslow you can refit it to your next van should you change.

d.

I've kept records of how many litres we've put into our Gaslow 11kg bottle since we bought it in July 2009. Taking out of the equation the odd small top up, we usually get in around 15 litres as we tend to run it down lowish before filling it up. So far we have put in 118.64 litres at a cost of £83.76, an average cost of per litre of 70p.

 

As for payback, as our last motorhome had diesel heating we didn't use as much gas as we would have had it had gas heating however our new one has gas heating so I expect the gas usage to increase and therefore our 'payback' period to reduce. Regardless though of the payback period, we certainly would not go back to an exchange cylinder system. :D

[Mel B]

bolero boy - 2012-12-06 5:14 PM

 

Iain Strachan - 2012-12-06 3:32 PM

 

Thanks Derek, One of my main reasons for moving to refillable is that the Aspire has a small gas locker, ie 2x6kg. Since retiring we have done a 9 week trip France Germany in our old van and a 10 weeker n the new one. The old van I carried 1x13kg butane and1x7kg.propane. Because the under bed storeage is so low in the new van I can only carry a 3.5 kg spare. On the 10week trip we got down to just about having to use the spare. Therefore if, as we intend, we want to spend longer away, in the winter, using aires on the way to Spain we would have run oot of gas, the Pussy cat would be cold and thats a disaster!

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts.

Cheers

iain, have you tried to fit in just one 11kg gaslow in the locker? We had 2 x 6kg calor but were able to squeeze in one 11kg gaslow.

This makes the new system far cheaper (only one cylinder and less hoses and valves) and also MIT leave room in the locker for things like ramps hoses toilet fluid etc.

Also see my earlier post and BGDs replies re additional hose and fitting for Spanish bottle as backup.

Ian, we were faced with the same problem as you with our current Autocruise Accent van conversion, the gas locker is supposed to hold only 2 x 6kg bottles, but I managed to shoe-horn in a 11kg Gaslow bottle - see below picture.

[Dave Newell]

Mel, in the interests of safety and personal longevity pleasee remove that clutter from your gas locker. Gas lockers are for storing gas cylinders and SMALL associated equipment not rucksacks and general clutter that can and often do block the gas drop vents in the floor of said locker. I see sights like this all too often and even had a couple of vans in where the floor of the locker had been lined with rubber mat which completely blanked out the drop vents. If you get a leaky cylinder or union the gas needs an unrestricted escape route in the downwards direction, bags of stuff and levelling ramps etc all create restrictions to this escape route. I know you've had an unpleasant experience with gas in the past so I trust you will take my comment in the way it is intended and not just come back with " ah yes but what you can't see is.........................." as so many do. I really do have only your best interests at heart.

 

D.