mikejkay Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 As it has got cold I decided to run the Eberspacher Airtronic D4 diesel heater on my newly acquired Chausson Flash S2. The heater worked but didn't seem to be kicking out much heat and It was also quite noisy so I went outside and around to the exhaust side of the van to see how noisy it was there. I looked under the van and put my hand in front of the exhaust (slowly!) and found that the exhaust temperature was very high. The gas would have burnt my hand if I had put it closer than about 8". It would seem that most of the fuel used was going towards heating the outside air. My question to other Eberspacher owners is "is this normal?" :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 The exhaust does get warm, but our heater is very effective and the heat output is actually uncomfortable when standing next to the outlet. Something does not sound quite right about yours. How long did you leave it running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Eberspachers are quite noisy, and the exhaust quite hot. Is there much air flowing out the vents? If not then check the inlet grills are not blocked, and check the air pipes to check they haven't been squashed with something, restricting the flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Remember that the exhaust you were putting your hand near is just that, Diesel fuel being burnt, does get VERY hot, that's why it is made from stainless steel. I agree that they are a bit noisy, especially if there is someone in a tent not far away ! But on my present Heater/Boilers performance (Truma Combi 4E) I would swap back in a second. Is the 12v distribution fan working properly ? and are the ducting vents open ? silly questions I know, but relevent. My opinion is that they (eberspacher) are far superior to the Truma offerings. I had a Combi-Tronic D5 with electric option and a Calorfier. worked very well, even in the depths of winter. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 Only left it on for about 10 mins. Temp in van went up about 1.5 deg C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 Vents all open, even the one in the bathroom. Warm air coming out of all the vents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 I am concerned about the very high temperature (fire hazard) and the waste with all that heat being pumped outside! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 How long is the heater's exhaust ducting and does the exhaust have a silencer. With a decent length duct and a silencer the noise and heat at the outlet is much reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I would set the room 'stat' if you have one, then leave it on for at least 30-40mins to stabilise. I had one these heaters in a Council Community Bus that I used to drive, delivering 'Senior Citizens' to the local Day centre, in the Winter I used to leave the heater on for at least 30mins, (engine running, so as not to flatten the battery) to heat the bus up, before picking up the first 'Customer/Stakeholder ?' By then the whole bus was 'Toasty'. As for the exhaust, i would just make sure that it isn't pointing at the Bodywork, down toward the road, and be careful on a grassy pitch, if it hasn't rained for a while (we should be so lucky !). let us know how you get on. Ray PS if the exhaust/heat was coming 'inside' the van, you wouldn't last very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 Just seems an awful lot of heat going to waste. Poor design. If there was some sort of heat exchanger inside the van then there would be less to go to waste outside. I know something's amiss when my wifes lips go purple. PS Your post was "Edited by Rayjsj". I wonder what he cut out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 I'll try again tomorrow and have a closer look at the exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 mikejkay - 2012-12-01 12:03 AM Just seems an awful lot of heat going to waste. Poor design. If there was some sort of heat exchanger inside the van then there would be less to go to waste outside. I know something's amiss when my wifes lips go purple. PS Your post was "Edited by Rayjsj". I wonder what he cut out? Spelling mistakes, you seem not to appreciate well meant comments. have you already made your mind up ? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 If your heater is working properly it should provide plenty heat and should produce that heat comparatively quickly. If you have set the fan controls correctly you should have plenty air coming out of the vent which will get progressively hotter. Also is the system heating water effectively ? Our van (which has a Webasto) has a rocker switch for water only and space heating (which also heats the water) . As already said the exhaust should have a small silencer at the end and is actually fairly quiet. Time to read the manual and persevere failing which back to the dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dave Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Erbrerspacher heaters do exhibit the characteristics you mention however with experience they are quite good and work economically and efficiently. When you first start the heater it will whir and buzz a bit whilst the glow plug warms up and ignites the diesel it can be a bit smelly at this stage (out of the exhaust) then when the heater starts to warm up the circulating fan starts. This sounds like a jet engine starting and this noise keeps going until the interior warms up to the preset temperature when the fan will slow down or stop. Within 10 - 15 minutes of starting the air coming out of the interior vents should be HOT. The exhaust always runs very hot but i have experienced no problems as it points well away from everything on the van and is a way from the ground. The trick to the heaters operation we think is to set the thermostat to max and warm the van up then gradually reduce the thermostat so the fan slows down to a whirr but does not switch off this keeps the temperature up without the heater keep stopping then starting the reason for this is when it starts up the heater imposes quite a hefty drain on the battery as the glow plug warms up, however when 'ticking over' it only draws a modest current this is important if you need the heater on all night without draining your leisure battery. At times the diesel injector makes a knock knock noise which can be confusing until you know what it is, oh don't forget before the heat coming out of the vents is hot it has to warm the ducting up which can take quite a few minutes in very cold weather. hope this helps Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 Sorry Rayjsj I hadn't noticed that the person doing the editing was the author! I do appreciate all comments and I'm sorry that you got the wrong impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 My system does not include a water heater. I will be checking the exhaust/silencer today. It seems that I may not have left the heater on for long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 I had the thermostat set to mid. I'll try again using your suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 Ran the heater this morning, this time for about an hour. The internal temperature crept up to about 18 deg C. The control seems to be very insensitive. Initially it did not seem to make any difference what position the control was set to. Eventually I discovered that if the control is turned down the fan eventually slows down but it's going to be a bit of trial and error to find the right position. I'm used to a CH room stat that gives an audible click when the dial passes the ambient temperature. The system does have a silencer but still makes quite a noise. I will have to try it out in a real situation to see what the noise levels are once the system has settled down and it is maintaining a temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 mikejkay - 2012-12-01 12:03 AM Just seems an awful lot of heat going to waste. Poor design. If there was some sort of heat exchanger inside the van then there would be less to go to waste outside. Like most things in a motorhome they are designed to be very compact, lightweight, and reasonably priced. Another, or a larger, heat exchanger would make them more efficient, but add to the size, weight, and manufacturing cost. Maybe if these heaters were given efficiency ratings like domestic appliances there would be more incentive for eberspacher to make them more fuel efficient. But they are still very constrained by cost, size, and weight. I thought maybe the air inlet inside the van may be restricted as the 2" approx diameter air pipes often run through lockers where they can get crushed. But if all the outlet vents are open so the heat is being widely distributed the air coming out won't be very hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birder Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 We have an Eberspacher D2 fitted to our Avondale & after initial problems caused by, IMO, lack of understanding by avondale fitters; problems solved by Eberspacher/Avondale & now it works fine. We were advised by Eberspacher to set the thermostat to maximum then switch on the unit. Yes there is a certain amount of initial noise but nothing too serious & the inside of our Avondale soon gets toasty warm & we have to turn down the thermostat (trial & error to find where 'stat dial' should be set). We can & do sit inside wearing summer clothing & it can be freezing outdoors. We use our Avondale year round & always 'wild camp' so have no electric back-up. We have two 85 amp hour batteries & they seem to cope very well. I would endorse all advice given by others who use Eberspachers re exhaust & fitting silencers. We were told that the heater uses approximately 0.2 of a litre per hour. We were also encouraged to ensure the heater was switched on for at least 20 minutes per month to ensure everything keeps ticking over nicely. They are very good 'workhorses'. If you continue to have problems take it to one of Eberspacher's agents & they should soon sort you out. Just as an 'aside' when the heaters are serviced the glow pin DOES NOT have to be replaced each time. In fact we have been told that if the heater is working then it doesn't need stripping down; the only time to take it to an agent is if it is not working satisfactory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 mikejkay - 2012-12-01 12:03 AM Just seems an awful lot of heat going to waste. Poor design. If there was some sort of heat exchanger inside the van then there would be less to go to waste outside. If you want a bigger heat exchanger for more fuel efficiency, Eberspacher do larger heaters. A large heater on a low setting will produce the same amount of heat for less fuel than a small heater on a high setting. Of course, the larger heater costs more, weighs more, and takes up more space - link: http://www.eberspacher.com/products/air-heating/d8lc.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisden Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I have a Webasto that supplies Hot water and heats the interior. First van to have this system Yes it can be loud on start up and the tick tick on tick over at night gets some getting use to. But it throws out heat and puts the tin box we had in the last 5 caravans and a motorhome to shame. But I have a question. Mine heats a self container heat exchanger full of Antifreeze as found in a truck. This in turn heats the water and the fan blows out the heat from mini rads in each outlet. Having drained down the water tank and piping but not the heat exchanger can I safely run the heater? P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 An Eberspacher Airtronic D4, correctly installed, should be plenty adequate to heat a motorhome the size of a Flash S2. Installation/Operating instructions can be downloaded from the Eberspacher website http://www.eberspacher.com/support-and-downloads/technical-documents.html and there's a large amount of information here (NB. some of the website links may be out of date) http://letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/Eberspacher_Intro_1.html (It may be worth noting the section about fitting a remote sensor.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8LEY Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 mikejkay - 2012-12-01 1:03 AM Just seems an awful lot of heat going to waste. Poor design. If there was some sort of heat exchanger inside the van then there would be less to go to waste outside If a more efficient heat exchanger was employed it would consume more fuel. You need more energy to push the exhaust past a larger resistance. Dependant on your van's insulation rating and the starting temperature you will need to give the system a bit more than 10 mins to achieve an acceptable level (unless you're having better weather than us). Most designs will be based on raising the ambient through 20C from 0C within one hour. It is a good idea to set the temperature control to max. on this type of heater, as the heat output is determined automatically by the system; not a feature common on domestic heating installations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Curtisden - 2012-12-02 5:52 PM ...But I have a question. Mine heats a self container heat exchanger full of Antifreeze as found in a truck. This in turn heats the water and the fan blows out the heat from mini rads in each outlet. Having drained down the water tank and piping but not the heat exchanger can I safely run the heater? P I believe you own an East Neuk Fifer L with a Webasto Thermo-Top C300 heating system that provides blown-air heating and heating of 'domestic' water. I THINK you should be able to run your heating system safely when it's drained of water. This would then provide blown-air heating but (obviously) no hot water. I strongly suggest you confirm this with East Neuk and/or Webasto. (I would have thought you should have Operating Instructions that would cover this, as it's plainly something that a motorhome owner is likely to want to know.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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