jordano Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Hi everyone, could someone please help with a problem? i have bought a Fiamma deluxe 8 step ladder from afellow motorhomer on ebay. he he bought it new but never fitted it, thing is he could not find the fitting instructions and i need a secure way to attach it surely screws would not be strong enough to hold the weight of someone climbing on it. has anyone fitted their own, or does anyone have any suggestions please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Sorry I do not have any instructions, But I think you will have to use stainless steel nuts and bolts. Drilling right though the rear panel where needed. possibly using large stainless steel washers on the outside, and metal plates on the inside to spread the load . Remembering of course to seal the holes. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordano Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 Thanks Brian, that's about on the lines I was thinking, do you think it would make it stronger and stop crushing of the rear wall, if I tried to put a tube between the walls for the bolts to go through? John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums. I presume what you've bought is identical to this product http://www.fiammastore.com/Fiamma-Exterior-Ladders-for-motorhomes-and-campervans/Fiamma-Deluxe-8-Exterior-Ladder I suggest you contact Fiammastore http://www.fiammastore.com/contact_us and ask if there are fitting instructions for the ladder and, if so, whether they can send you a copy. You haven't said what motorhome you own, which makes it difficult to advise on how best to attach the ladder. The relevant entry in the Fiamma catalogue seems to indicate that the positions of the attachment brackets on the ladder's uprights are fixed and, if that's the case, this is likely to restrict where on your motorhome's rear panel the ladder can go. Screws MIGHT be strong enough provided that the screws were heavy-duty and could be screwed into a sufficiently sturdy framework behind the rear panel's outer skin. Using bolts that pass right through the rear panel (as Brian B says) would be preferable though but, once again, the panel would need to have internal reinforcing at the points where the attachment brackets meet the panel. When a ladder is factory-fitted to a motorhome, the motorhome manufacturer will have (or should have) taken into account how to attach the ladder securely to the vehicle's rear panel and allowed for the loading that someone climbing the ladder will produce. The panel will be strengthened in the appropriate places and the ladder will be attached to the strengthened areas. Unless information is available about the structure of a motorhome's rear panel that will permit 'strong points' to be identified, retro-fitting a ladder may prove tricky. In some cases, where a ladder was never a factory-fitted option, retro-fitting a ladder may prove to be impracticable. (Your 'spacer tube' idea makes sense, but it's still going to depend on how strong the panel is at the attachment points. Certainly, unless the rear panel has a rigid internal structure at the ladder attachment points, you'll need to do something to minimise the chance of the panel being crushed when the bolts are tightened up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninian Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Hi, Even before you start drilling holes to fit a ladder is your roof suitable for the weight of someone to walk about on, your may end up damaging your roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordano Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 sorry the motorhome i have is an Autotrail Cheyenne 2000 model with rear bathroom would maybe a good idea to contact Autotrail for info on structure of rear wall before drilling anything. the brakets are not fixed so can be anywhere on the ladder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Then, as most Autotrails have GRP rear panels, I suspect with hard to detect reinforcement points, I would suggest that is the only safe way to go. I have seen ATs with rear ladders, so would expect fixing points to be present. I find it a bit difficult to believe they produce different rear panels for those with, and without, ladders. But who knows? Otherwise, it is possible an AT dealership with workshop facilities may know where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninian Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Hi, I have an AT Mohican which has a ladder factory fitted, as well as being fixed to the roof in a swan neck fashion it is also fixed to the rear panel with large screws. There is nothing appears on the inside of the van so some sort of strengthening is definitely built into the panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordano Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 thamks everyone for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 After a cold frosty morning, sometimes you can see the indentations on the m/home where the skin meets the wooden bracing between the outer and inner skins. Its probably more to do with where the insulation stops and wood bits begin !! Rgds Added as an after thought, maybe one of those gadgets that warn of electrical wires in walls and location of joists might work ? http://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-stud-sensor-200-centre-finder/81925 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Hi John and welcome to the forum, We have a 2004 AT Cheyenne and after speaking to the engineers at the factory I am sure I was told that ours was the earliest age at which the roof would support the weight of a person so I do not think yours will :-( IIRC the way to tell is if you have 2 joining strips running front to back on the ceiling inside approx 4 feet apart. I am sure you will know what I mean if you have them. May I ask why you need a rear ladder as we have owned our Cheyenne now for nearly 5 years and I cannot say I have ever wished we had one? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 The following three links show photos of 2000-registered Auto-Trail Cheyennes. The first two links relate to vehicles with rear ladders and the 3rd to a ladder-less one. http://tinyurl.com/cf92hkz http://tinyurl.com/ct36r6a http://tinyurl.com/bs2ve43 The positions of the ladder-brackets on the rear panel can be seen and this may help John when seeking to establish where the strong-points are within the panel. As Ninian says earlier, in addition to being fixed to the rear panel the ladders in the photos are attached to the roof. This will provide extra stability and should reduce significantly the downwards 'shear pressure' on the brackets caused by someone climbing the ladder. Ninian's ladder is attached by large screws but, as a Fiamma ladder will not be roof-attached, it's guesswork whether screw-fixing will be sufficient in John's case. I note that the Chyenne 635s shown on the 2nd and 3rd links have a rear washroom (like John's motohome) and, in such instances, using through-bolts to attach a ladder may be tricky. Even when practicable, bolts protruding into a washroom/shower will be unattractive and hard to disguise successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninian Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Hi, As an added point although my ladder was factory fitted, there is a red line on the roof which runs from side to side that I am not allowed to walk beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordano Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Thankyou everybody for your help and effort, am awaiting a responce from Autotrail about best position for ladder regards all John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Only to add that NOT fitting a ladder does have some benefits, maybe more than fitting it ! 1) No holes in the body work 2) Less attempts to climb up onto the roof in the first place. Why ?? How often do you need to wipe the Henki ? 3) Less chance of falling of the roof, if you don't climb on it in the first place. 4) Less chance of eastern block small boys being dropped through the skylight, or monkeys when in the safari park. 5) Noises in the night are more likely to be squirrels not the above (4) Like a lot of things in life, the idea is brighter than the practicality. That said I very occasionally used the ladder on our first M/home and did not bother to fit a ladder although I could have on the second, and have never missed it. If I need to get on the roof I can. about 2 to3 times a year to clean the Henki Apologies for being a spoiler of fun ideas. Rgds Edit. It probably would have been more sensible for me to ask other m/homers why they need instant access to the roof patio ? Apart from taking photos above the crowd and adjusting wayward satellite dishes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Or John could be asked why he wants a ladder. If the answer were, say, that he intends to fit a roof-box, then a ladder would be essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Ladders are ideal for tying the washing line to, also useful for attaching a portable sat dish clamp, and impressing young neighbouring children. Got new neighbours next door and the 9 year old is incredibly impressed my motor home has a ladder. What other reason could you possibly want one! Mine is held by 2 screws in each bracket into the wooden structure of the rear wall. I should also add there is a sikaflex (polyurethane adhesive/sealant) like material bonding the brackets to the fibreglass panel. Seems plenty strong enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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